Zimmerman not guilty

atom · July 16, 2013, 10:08am

Yeah, there are an endless amount of factors that could have prevented what had happened that night or altered it in any number of ways. I mean, that’s the case for everything and isn’t unique to this situation at all. So that was a pretty odd thing for the article to use as the headline, especially when it goes on to state this:

[i]She also said that none of the five fellow jurors believed race played a factor in the Feb. 26, 2012 shooting death of 17-year-old Martin, who was African-American.

The juror said she had “no doubt” that Zimmerman feared for his life and was acting in self-defense when he shot Martin.

The woman said Zimmerman had a right to carry a gun, and did not take issue that he may be eligible to have it returned to him.[/i]

But a headline like: Zimmerman juror: No doubt Zimmerman was acting in self-defense or Zimmerman juror: None of the jurors believed race played a factor wouldn’t fit the media’s current narrative or be as fun to link to or email people with added faux outrage.

I could see you teaming up with him seeing your history. you got a lot in common you both like the taste of your own shit. He made absolutely no point in his rant and engaged in ALL of the things that he complains about me… he must still be high.
Late,
grmpysmrf

You sure didn’t waste any time proving me right with some of those points I supposedly didn’t make. Way to add to your argument and not fall back on your usual insults and childish personal attacks that are untrue and used solely to avoid saying anything relevant or mildly thoughtful.

it’s only logical to your backward ass.
Why are you two and some others so pissed that I like to argue and won’t agree with your asinine bullshit.

WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT FOR YOU THAT I AGREE WITH YOU??? just tell me that much at least. please I’m begging you tell me. don’t just come at me with Ad hominems and non sequitors…

I will say I think it’s funny on your part that now there are several vocal people against me you show back up… safety in numbers or what? you get so butt hurt over words on a screen. It’s not like I’m on the radio or a nationally syndicated tv show…

you are all essentially acting towards me (as if I’m important) the way you say I act against “corporations and rich people” and such
Late,
grmpysmrf

Are you being serious? You’ve basically just taken most of the complaints made about you and are now using them against everyone else while acting like you’re some sort of victim now.

Either you are completely clueless, hypocritical, and living in a really warped reality or you know exactly how full of shit you sound right now. Either way this is pointless because you are mentally incapable of having a debate or discussion like an adult.

rev_skarekroe · July 16, 2013, 10:24am

The Onion nailed it. Twice.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/zimmerman-found-not-guilty-technically-but-cmon,33124/



http://www.theonion.com/articles/in-our-defense-these-were-some-pretty-fuckedup-law,33126

davelybob · July 16, 2013, 10:25am

I just like to think of Prongs as my friend with multiple personalities that is always arguing with himself. It’s much more amusing for me this way.

Akbar_The_Great · July 16, 2013, 3:20pm

The Onion nailed it. Twice.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/zimmerman-found-not-guilty-technically-but-cmon,33124/



http://www.theonion.com/articles/in-our-defense-these-were-some-pretty-fuckedup-law,33126

Nice one.

Zimmerman sucks dicks as does the Florida law. Anyone who is a cheerleader for Zimmerman or the particular law that enabled him to walk free is an idiot.

Prototype_SKB · July 16, 2013, 4:00pm

I still can’t figure out how to unlock George Zimmerman in the new Mortal Kombat Kommunities game.

richiee · July 16, 2013, 5:27pm

this thread is nothing but opinions, opinions arent allowed in field notes, opinions are detracted from all evidence when transcripts are given to the jury.

like joe friday said, just the facts mam, just the facts.

process is part of justice, its everything, and when any of you end up as a defendant one of these days, you will know this first hand.

look what oj did, look what oj got away with, the best attorney will always prevale.

jurys are not allowed to consider opinion in any way at all. the closing arguments will make you or break you each and every time.

the jury has access to all evidence that was allowed which does not mean everything that was seen during the trial.

none of you will ever understand why/how GZ was ruled innocent until you are part of a jury.

Sean · July 16, 2013, 5:39pm

I was part of a grand jury for a few months. I abstained from every case. If I HAD to go to something I didn’t agree with, I’m just happy I was able to express my belief in that way. Very surprised I wasn’t kicked out.

and yes, I know grand jury is different from the case of Zimmerman.

grmpysmrf · July 16, 2013, 6:37pm

Upon further reflection (a lot of it.)

I suppose it comes down to the intent of the law for me rather than “the letter of the law” as some are saying. I can’t believe this is what was intended by this law.

Also, people are saying the jurors are not at fault because it’s the law that is bad and the jurors interpreted a bad law correctly… I disagree, because where is the justice in upholding an unjust law? (I’m sure everyone is aware of Thoreau’s civil disobedience) that’s not justice. You go to court to seek justice, not law interpretation… or at least that’s how it should be.

At the end of the day a kid is dead, we know who pulled the trigger and there has been no crime committed and that’s bullshit.

btw juror [url http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/juror-b37-says-shed-be-fine-zimmerman-her]b37 is quite the publicity hound now saying " I would feel comfortable having George [on her neighborhood watch], but I think he’s learned a good lesson."

What lesson is there to be learned if he’s innocent?

Also, this exchange is quite troubling FOR ME:

"Cooper: People have now remarked subsequently that he gets his gun back…Does that worry you?"

B37: "It doesn’t worry me. I think he would be more responsible than anybody else on this planet right now.

So, you let an “irresponsible guy” with a gun kill an innocent kid and walk away from it?

I think this Juror needs to be tried (that was snark I don’t really think that.)

Late,
grmpysmrf

rev_skarekroe · July 16, 2013, 9:26pm

I was in a murder trial jury last summer.
You don’t get to judge this stuff like you’re sitting at home watching talking heads on CNN.

grmpysmrf · July 16, 2013, 11:05pm

you love quoting people and inferring that they meant something completely different.

she sounded pretty clear, but oh do tell what she really meant.

you know with all of your paranoia and insane ramblings and what not, probably the only thing that really bugs me about your posts is stuff like this:

You really missed the meaning of those last two quotes

you just throw it out there and the run away from it. no explanation just an empty statement meant to do what exactly? you offer nothing other than “your wrong” with no back up. I think we need a “Life according to Dj’s rules”

It is my personal opinion that you’ve been an authority figure for too long (maybe at your work, maybe just being a parent) you just say shit with out explaining yourself (a handful of other posters are guilty of this as well, but you’ve done it most recently so your it today) and expect not to be challenged on it. and when someone does (say for example, me) you get out right pissed that I dare question you.

Yeah I say shit, I expect to be challenged and so I offer reasons for my shit but then I’m accused of being a long winded blow hard that crams my opinion down everyone’s throats.

Is what your doing the secret? Should I just start making blanket statements with no proof or substance?

Late,
grmpysmrf

mooney138 · July 17, 2013, 12:50am

This tragedy took place about an hour from where I live. I watched a good portion of it.

Some points:

We have no idea from what angle GZ first saw TM; thus, we do not know if he could see his hands or face to identify his race. Only in the Non-Emergency call does the operator ask. GZ’s response seems a bit unsure. Keep in mind it was dark, raining, and TM’s hood on his hoodie was up. GZ may have only saw a 5’ 11" 158 lb male figure.
There had been a rash of b&e/thefts in the subdivision leading up to this event. GZ profiled TM as a suspicious individual to the non-emergency operator (not 911). He requested police. If he had set out to murder, why would be request the police in advance? Better yet, why didn’t he ask TM if he was lost or if he needed help vs jump to the conclusion he was up to no good? That probably has something to do with the observed behavior and his classes to become an officer and adrenaline starts flowing and the tunnel vision starts to set in. Note: This happened inside a gated community, not on a truly public sidewalk/street. It is a residential community for the residents and their guests, more like a resort that is completely maintained by the resort and not the city.
RJ’s testimony states that TM ran to the house and dropped something on the porch. This is the time that GZ lost sight of him. The neighbors heard an argument just prior to the screaming that prompted them to call 911. Then a physical altercation ensued. It is assault and battery to strike a person verbally attacking you (has to be like force in case of defense, verbal verbal, punch punch). GZ got his nose beat and knocked on the ground. Witness says ground and pound position. There was plenty of opportunity for either to walk away up to the physical altercation took place. They were both in the wrong at this point.
We have no idea what happened after the ground and pound witness, but we do know the screams stopped when the shot was fired.
The physical evidence was mishandled by CSI and the ME. Plastic bag on wet hoodie/shirt and hands not bagged.
Watch the whole testimony of the witnesses, not just clips. Listen to all the calls placed, look at the photos, and decide for yourself. I thought for sure the jury was going to come back with manslaughter, but the jury found that the evidence presented did not support that conclusion.
The state did a crap job in proving their case. They themselves raised reasonable doubt. We are all biased based on our experiences in life. The State really underestimated the defense attorneys. MO did a freakin fantastic job on defense. Does not fit M2 criteria and self defense is for manslaughter also. Again, too much reasonable doubt to convict. The jury believes that GZ is in fear for his life immediately prior to the shot.
There has been a very fine media manipulation campaign that started pretty much immediately after the incident took place. It started with the photos of a little boy and a fat man. We are all of the human race and this crap needs to stop. Where is the accountability and responsibility?
I have been a witness at a criminal trial. The person was convicted with no physical evidence. That case really opened my eyes as to the biases that persist and just how testimony is manipulated. However, that is a different conversation than this topic.
I am sorry this happened because it didn’t have to. There were a series of missed opportunities that could have stopped it. I feel for TM’s parents on the loss of their child. That is never easy under any circumstances, but knowing he ran back to the house only to run back intentionally to a confrontational situation makes it even harder.

atom · July 17, 2013, 1:02am

^ Pretty much agree with you on this.

you know with all of your paranoia and insane ramblings and what not, probably the only thing that really bugs me about your posts is stuff like this:

You really missed the meaning of those last two quotes

you just throw it out there and the run away from it. no explanation just an empty statement meant to do what exactly? you offer nothing other than “your wrong” with no back up. I think we need a “Life according to Dj’s rules”

It is my personal opinion that you’ve been an authority figure for too long (maybe at your work, maybe just being a parent) you just say shit with out explaining yourself (a handful of other posters are guilty of this as well, but you’ve done it most recently so your it today) and expect not to be challenged on it. and when someone does (say for example, me) you get out right pissed that I dare question you.

Yeah I say shit, I expect to be challenged and so I offer reasons for my shit but then I’m accused of being a long winded blow hard that crams my opinion down everyone’s throats.

Is what your doing the secret? Should I just start making blanket statements with no proof or substance?

Late,
grmpysmrf

Hahahaha, this is all shit that you do! Classic.

You’re accused of being a “long winded blow hard that crams [your] opinions down everyone’s throats” not because you do it by making lengthy posts ripe with facts and reasons for your opinions. But because you’ll type up a fucking essay that is nothing but insults and failed efforts at attacking people on a personal level. And you’ll do it again… and again… and again.

Just cut the crap already, guy. You’re a dick. People said it. Move on. Don’t try and change what has happened. I mean, this place is full of examples of you doing exactly what you’re now accusing others of doing. You’re not going to fool anybody.

grmpysmrf · July 17, 2013, 1:25am

If he had set out to murder, why would be request the police in advance?

I think you’re (like most) are confusing 1st and second degree murder. If he set out to kill TM that would constitute 1st degree murder or pre-meditated that’s not what he was up for. he was up for second degree murder which is an unplanned intentional killing or death caused by reckless disregard for human life. If he was truly scared for his safety he would have stayed in his truck until the cops arrived or even fled the scene. but he didn’t cause he wasn’t scared for his life… Hence, murder 2

The state did a crap job in proving their case. They themselves raised reasonable doubt.

How so?

MO did a freakin fantastic job on defense
would that be the knock knock joke guy?

Does not fit M2 criteria and self defense is for manslaughter also.

I think it does

Again, too much reasonable doubt to convict.The jury believes that GZ is in fear for his life immediately prior to the shot.

I disagree. obviously.

There has been a very fine media manipulation campaign that started pretty much immediately after the incident took place.

I don’t think so. But perhaps you could provide evidence of such.

It started with the photos of a little boy and a fat man

Treyvon’s pic was only 7 mos old hardly a manipulation. they didn’t book Zimmerman so where are they to get a pic since they didn’t have a current mug shot? They gonna go to the family… hey can we have a current pic of your son who killed skinny black kid?
Late,
grmpysmrf

grmpysmrf · July 17, 2013, 2:05am

^ Pretty much agree with you on this.

[reply]
you know with all of your paranoia and insane ramblings and what not, probably the only thing that really bugs me about your posts is stuff like this:

You really missed the meaning of those last two quotes

you just throw it out there and the run away from it. no explanation just an empty statement meant to do what exactly? you offer nothing other than “your wrong” with no back up. I think we need a “Life according to Dj’s rules”

It is my personal opinion that you’ve been an authority figure for too long (maybe at your work, maybe just being a parent) you just say shit with out explaining yourself (a handful of other posters are guilty of this as well, but you’ve done it most recently so your it today) and expect not to be challenged on it. and when someone does (say for example, me) you get out right pissed that I dare question you.

Yeah I say shit, I expect to be challenged and so I offer reasons for my shit but then I’m accused of being a long winded blow hard that crams my opinion down everyone’s throats.

Is what your doing the secret? Should I just start making blanket statements with no proof or substance?

Late,
grmpysmrf

Hahahaha, this is all shit that you do! Classic.

You’re accused of being a “long winded blow hard that crams [your] opinions down everyone’s throats” not because you do it by making lengthy posts ripe with facts and reasons for your opinions. But because you’ll type up a fucking essay that is nothing but insults and failed efforts at attacking people on a personal level. And you’ll do it again… and again… and again.

Just cut the crap already, guy. You’re a dick. People said it. Move on. Don’t try and change what has happened. I mean, this place is full of examples of you doing exactly what you’re now accusing others of doing. You’re not going to fool anybody.[/reply]

you want stupid personal attack posts well Listen up cocksucker… you wanna keep this shit going we’ll do it Pm because the board has already suffered enough of your shit.

you don’t know what you’re talking about you never know what you’re talking about, but you continue to rattle off your bullshit as if it means something. you offer sad little insults about nothing.

our opinions don’t match but that doesn’t mean your opinion is better or that mine is. and instead of putting any substance into your shitty posts you just ignore everything and go straight for ad hominem attacks while complaining that, that’s the only thing I do. Irony much?

well, honor student, go back and read anything I’ve posted, aside from where I’m just mimicking your shit back at you or where someone didn’t start it first (Yeah that’s right I went second grade on your ass), and show me where I just bitch at people.

you want to argue the fuckin points of something and throw in an insult here and there, then fine whatever do it, but you NEVER have a point to make and you just take shit to a new low.

you were a fuckin loser at piss army your a fuckin loser here. you will never escape it. you think cause you’ve found the angry Aussies and an angry psycho ex navy guy that claims he’s been misread whenever he’s backed into a corner, but then refuses to explain his “real meaning” to side with you that you’re some kinda white knight? well what a lofty achievement. 22 internets for you. I’m sure you’ve already yelled up to your mommy from the basement to tell her what a good boy you are.

No matter what you do with your pathetic little life just remember you will always be shit, you fuckin loser.

now go cry to the manson board about how your were framed with shitty posts and you really shouldn’t be banned from there even though it probably was you, you were just too drugged out of your mind to remember.

fuckin reject loser. it’s people like you that fuck this place up for the rest of us with your pseudo intellectual bullshit and your virtuous apathy.

how’s that for personal attack bitch?

Gunnar · July 17, 2013, 2:34am

I hate the phrase “ad hominem”.
I’m not sure if I’ve ever actually heard anyone say it in real life but for some reason it seems like I see it every day on the internets.

Godlike_Pudding · July 17, 2013, 3:30am

It’s because the real smart cookies don’t hang out in real life.

Olsen · July 17, 2013, 4:05am

you want stupid personal attack posts well Listen up cocksucker… you wanna keep this shit going we’ll do it Pm because the board has already suffered enough of your shit.

The board has suffered enough of his shit?

HA!! You arrogant, smart arsey jerk off. I think it’s high time you take some time out, Smrfie ol’boy. Perhaps you could take out some of that rage and pent up paranoia on that picture of Ted Nugent - the one you got nailed up on a wall in yer garage. The one with all the hammer marks on it.

Bashing Ted will make it all better, Grmpy. You’ll see.

No matter what you do with your pathetic little life just remember you will always be shit, you fuckin loser.

For fucks sake, Smrf, it’s just a thread on a fucking message board. Stop taking all this virtual discussion so damn seriously.

Looksee…Zimmerman got off. The jury couldn’t convict based on the evidence put forth. Sucks to you if you think it’s a miscarriage of justice. Write to your local senator or representative of parliament or whatever the fuck they call it over there and stop yer whining.

Think it over, present your case and leave it at that. Stop harassing others who apparently don’t “get it”. It’s not a competition here.

Oh and hey…here’s some food for thought - this computer I’m using right now…I didn’t pay for it! Yep that’s right! I tell ya baby it was given to me. GIVEN TO ME!!! I didn’t have to work for it all. HA HA!!! Oooooh betcha that gets you all choked up, mama’s boy. Get you all riled up does it? Makes you wanna floor somebody!!! Oooh yeah baby, you’re just about ready to blow now aren’t you?

"Oooh that rich bastard Olsen…I could just…I could just…ooh those wealthy people in their polished suits and designer homes they makes me so mad. They makes me so mad I could just…

Hey, I hear the kids are a-riotin’ down in old L.A over the Zimmerman verdict. Go and join 'em Grmp. Go lose some of that pent up rage that’s been building up over the last few days. Get out, get some fresh air and go smash the face of some lucky rich bastard who doesn’t have a "boo hoo woe is me sob story like you do.!

mooney138 · July 17, 2013, 7:02am

I don’t have time right now to fully answer because I have to go to work, but I can answer all that. There is no confusion between charges: certain people are staying GZ was hunting prey as soon as he started following TM in the truck because he was out for blood to get the guys causing the crimes in his neighborhood because they had gotten away before. They think he shot in cold blood because he had the physical advantage (TM was not on top of GZ in g&p position when he fired due to the way TM’s body was positioned, which insinuates that GZ had him begging for his life with a gun pointed at his heart (grass stains on TM’s knees)).

MO (this was the main guy without a beard) and DW (this is the older guy you are thinking of who cross examined RJ).

Piko · July 17, 2013, 9:16am

I don’t think GZ planned on killing anyone. Idiotic and overzealous? Absolutely. He threw himself into a situation he had no business being in. Should have just stayed in his truck and left it to the professionals. But, the dumbass didn’t. I do believe he probably got his ass kicked. And maybe TM started it. But if you see a guy following you, you wouldn’t think of defending yourself?

atom · July 17, 2013, 9:51am

opinions down everyone’s throats" not because you do it by making lengthy posts ripe with facts and reasons for your opinions. But because you’ll type up a fucking essay that is nothing but insults and failed efforts at attacking people on a personal level. And you’ll do it again… and again… and again.