I started this thread so as to not continue to muddy up what are you listening to thread.
I’m not really a big fan of maher but he does have a nugget here and there.
This is interesting, but I’m taking these two people with a grain of salt for now. This just seem to be these people making claims but not really offering anything other than conjecture. With Biology anything is on the table. Just because we “generally don’t see this” doesn’t mean it’s not possible. I’m not sure where he gets the "90% possible this came from a lab. They don’t offer much by way of an explanation a to why 90% is far more likely.
infectious disease experts are saying no way. This dude and his wife have a book to sell and a podcast to promote so might as well generate some controversy to help advertising. A quick google search shows the only one pushing the lab idea is trumps former cdc director.
I’m skeptical.
You’re right, I remember that. But I don’t think it was a secret, though. Maybe I’m misremembering but I remember him saying for us not wear masks in the beginning because it was causing a shortage and at the time the hospital workers needed them more than the public did because they were for sure working with covid patients while general public were maybe around covid at the time.
Yeah, but June was still under trump. trump who successfully got the cdc to change their reports to what he wanted. trump who openly talked about firing people (including fauci) if they didn’t say/do what he wanted. So, I’ll give Fauci. a pass on bullshit until he starts doing under biden.I’m gonna take the word of a 45+ year infectious disease expert’s career over some pundit/politician (see dumb ass rand paul)
I don’t see the connection. Honestly, wet markets are a thing and what we consider gross here in the west isn’t necessarily gross in other places AND they don’t just sell bats at the wet markets. they sell all kinds of animals .
Engineering flus in the lab suggests nefarious intentions by the chinese. Do we have any evidence that they’re doing that? If we don’t we’re basically accusing the chinese of an act of war and crimes against humanity without any proof.
I don’t think that’s the same thing. The complaint with indy is that the dinner scene ONLY has those odd foods, when that culture also eats what the west would consider normal. So, the dinner scene could be considered racist because it’s showing the hindi people as substandard from “normal” humans who eat “normal” food. The dinner scene is basically used to mock the Hindi people not celebrate their culture. “look at what these nasty Kali Mah worshiper fuckers eat!”
Doesn’t that stand to reason then if they are researching the virus then the chances of transference would be higher there becaue of exposure? It seems like a wild jump to suggest research means engineering. Research generally means observations NOT manipulation/engineering doesn’t it?
Why are they “So-called?”
I find it hard to believe that that consisted of the whole investigation. Who told you that 's what they did?
We do the exact same thing as a country and as individuals. Something fucks up we immediately go to “It’s not my fault. I fixed it!” I’m not excusing China but to suggest that this is some kind of “par for the course when it comes to china” bullshit is just that, bullshit because everyone does this. I imagine if this came from the US the world would see similar behavior/reaction out of us.
Certainly, but when those questions that are asked or blame is assigned based on racist stereotypes it’s kinda hard not to point out the racism of it.
“Are the chinese engineering viruses? Everybody knows they’re sneaky.”
“China Virus” and “Kung flu” Certainly don’t help the matter.
There was a piece on 60 Minutes a few weeks ago that profiled the “lab theory” and the recent independent WHO investigation. I thought there were some fair questions raised. I don’t think we will ever know the full truth. I believe the search for “patient zero” continues as well.
Oh, for sure. Cheeto-in-Chief made sure to make things worse at every opportunity and the tragic result fo any item where he might have accidentally been right (because even a broken clock is right twice a day) it gets dismissed regardless because by association people assume it’s shit.
Just because something is used for racist purpose doesn’t mean we should ignore our quest for truth, though.
Well, consider the source… That’s why people dismiss him. He’s not a doctor. He doesn’t have a PHd in anything (even threatened to sue anybody who released his college transcript). He held a press conference where he told the public they were killing covid with “very strong light” or to “inject bleach into themselves.” If “he’s right” on anything he’s said it’s because a professional told him what to say and he miraculously stayed on script.
I will give credit where credit is due, though. I have found one thing I can praise trump for. He signed the “right to try” bill. So, we won’t have a Dallas Buyers Club situation anymore. If people want to sign up to be human guinea pigs to try any experimental medication to fight off/kill whatever terminal fucked upness they have. LET 'EM.
However, my sister assures me that’s not a good thing, but I don’t remember the reasons why and I don’t think I was on board with those reasons when she was telling me, So, fuck it. trump gets a pat on the head from me on this one.
I’m probably completely wrong on this, but I thought he was found in wuhan and jailed/killed shortly after the Wuhan Doctor who first raised the alarm was arrested. Or I could be making that up. Maybe I’m conflating information, but I’m sure I heard/read that somewhere.
Also, I’d like to hear from recognized/respected infectious disease experts on the whole bio engineered thing. because Michael Osterholm one of the leading world experts on infectious diseases says the protein coat on this covid shit is too complex for humans to generate. I believe Fauci says the same. So, until/unless more infectious disease experts come out and say otherwise, I’m gonna go with the experts on this and dismiss a married couple who were let go go from their jobs at a university over some scandalous shit, and now have a book to sell and a podcast to advertise. maybe I’m too cynical.
Wow. Thats a 180 from what the leading infectious disease experts are/were saying. I’ll be keeping up with this. Thanks for the link. Although “not entirely convinced…” is not the same as “did come from” but still thats a big change from “not a chance”
Determining whether or not COVID came from a lab is, I feel – IMHO – academic at this point. Suppose China admitted, tomorrow, that they developed COVID in a lab and it got out some how. What next? Sanctions? Yeah, probably. But what else? Drop something in their water supply? Nuke them? None of that is feasible, or even remotely reasonable.
And then, eventually, bringing to light the whole idea of bioweapons programs leads to the sinking realization (if you haven’t had it already) that if China has bioweapons labs, WE have bioweapons labs. Or at least, we fucking better. I don’t want to be the last guy on the block to own a copy of the new lung-disintegrating retrovirus.
I haven’t heard of anyone demanding some sort of retribution, but it is very important to know if this came from a lab leak because the lab was doing research which was supported and funded by Fauci other Americans to do in this lab in China because it was not allowed in the US. Why was it not allowed in the US? Because it is risky as fuck due to the chance that these fucked up viruses (which they create and modify in a lab) CAN ESCAPE. It’s happened before to terrible ends (nowhere as bad as the Covid pandemic, of course) and here we are again. We need to know if this is what happened because it is absolutely insane that we continue to allow / support such dangerous Frankenstein experiments unless we want this to happen AGAIN. It’s not about punishing the Chinese (we should be punishing ourselves, after all) it’s about HOPEFULLY learning something now that millions have died and reducing the chance of repeating this totally preventable disaster.
So it is now okay to question the origins of the COVID virus? Or will it still get you banned for life from Facebook, Twitter and Google for questioning the gospel?
There is a really good book on this sort of thing called The Hot Zone. It came out about 20 years or so ago. It’s about Ebola and Marbug not COVID but it’s an interesting read on this kind of abjectly stupid behavior regarding handling and study of truly dangerous virus.
He’s obviously referring to HOW it originated in China. It was decided early on by social media and the so-called mainstream media that anyone that had the gall to entertain the possibility of a lab leak or question authority on this matter was “anti-science”, “racist”, or into “conspiracy theories”.
People were literally painted as crackpots and xenophobic fascists (and sure, some of them still are regardless) just for questioning or challenging what we were being told about a weird Chinese virus that rapidly spread around the world infecting 200,000,000 people, killing 4,000,000 of them, bringing economies and societies to their knees and completely destroying lives.
We should be doing everything in our power to figure this out. If we can’t actually learn from such a cataclysmic failure then I think we should just accept that we are unreachable and call it a day.
No, research does not only mean observation. There is observation, data collection, experimentation, etc. If it was just studying existing data and looking at things, it wouldn’t be a big deal. But this was a LABORATORY in the very sense that they were doing manipulation, experimentation, etc. If you get into the discussions about what was really going on over there, the topic “gain of function” research is repeatedly brought up. Loosely speaking, what that refers to is taking viruses and subjecting them to conditions, manipulations, etc. to force and enhance their mutations. It’s kind of like hot-rodding evolution. The idea behind it isn’t just to make fucked up stuff, but that they fast forward to what could be a theoretical inevitability of a virus’ growth over time and then work on that virus to get “ahead” of the ball for developing cures, treatments, etc. But, yeah, it’s risky as all hell and that is what we are LIKELY seeing. These research strategies are to develop cures and treatments of viruses that do not presently exist . . . and when one gets out (especially when the vaccines, treatments, etc. have not yet been developed) bad shit happens. There have been previous examples of this stuff happening, but nowhere near as horrific a scale.
Considering China has thwarted any serious investigation and has silenced so many of their own journalists to cover up their embarrassing handling of the entire situation I think it’s safe to say there was some lab negligence going on there. Something escaped. You could say that’s typical authoritarian bullshit but to stifle official investigations just oozes cover up. You’d think they’d welcome it to vindicate themselves and ultimately finally convince people that it was naturally occurring.
This is what happens when backwards donkeys like China try to cheat and buy their way into the 21st century. They take shortcuts and we end up with accidents. Most recently they crashed a rocket into the Earths atmosphere. lmao. Who does that!?
We’ll likely never know the answer but the actions China has taken and Fauci’s flip flopping speak volumes imo. They’re clearly hiding something.
We’ll see how the media will now follow suit, but it’s clear that the opinions of Congress have greatly shifted. When do you ever see unanimous bipartisan passing of anything?
I’m not on social media save for this site (If it counts), so I’ll take your word for it. That seems ridiculous to ban people for entertaining such notions. However, is that really what was going on? Banning loud mouths with an opinion? That seems counter productive to social media’s function.
but further, what proof would anyone on facebook have to offer in the face of the evolutionary biologists and micro biologists (who have literally studied this type of shit their whole life and had seen info we haven’t on the subject) who said otherwise? To do so would be wildly irresponsible so I could see Social media trying to be responsible and trying to squash that (or at least using that excuse)
Sure, but I don’t think that was ever in question. I think the problem the experts had was “Don’t go around blaming people when you don’t know.” Idiots on Facebook saying it came from the lab was literally based on nothing. And even if they ended up “right” they’re still idiots because they weren’t right based on research, they just lucky guessed based on nothing (or racism).
Also, everything up until that point and even currently suggests this is a natural occurrence (according to the people who do this for a living). For the experts at this point to suggest it may have come from a lab is based on information they have seen and not any info that is necessarily available to the general public. So, again lucky guessers are not generally regarded as authorities or even right.
Fauci saying it came from a lab carries a lot more weight than David Duke. Know what I mean?
