I don’t think i said “only” but you certainly aren’t engineering shit because that would fuck with the environment and skew your results.
Data collection is based on your observations
Sure, but that’s just evolution at a faster speed that’s not how I understand “creating a virus.” creating a virus to me means from the ground up. This isn’t that.
Sounds like a good idea. But certainly a double edged sword. The road to hell and good intentions and what not.
Meh, The US would do the exact same thing.
Except if they’re distrustful then they’d be scared inspectors wouldn’t look for shit but just conclude what they already thought to be true and use their “investigations” bolster the claims
America countless times.
I agree with the first part. but Fauci “flip flopping” is not a thing. You don’t start with your conclusion and work backwards that’s not how science works. You go where the science leads. And if the science doesn’t initially go there neither do your investigations.
When? Those shuttle fuel tanks dont count. They’re intentionally dropped into the ocean and don’t harm anyone. As for space debris of that size occasionally falling back down to earth that’s pretty rare and not intentionally dropped on our heads without a worry like what the Chinese did with that rocket.
When America was starting our space program (Or taking Germany’s depending on how you look at it) we we’re having shit fall out of the sky early on. I seem to remember being in school, when in 1986 the space shuttle Challenger dropped out of the sky.
China’s fuck up wasn’t on purpose. China didn’t intentionally drop it on our heads. it’s just trial an error. Shit, China just landed a rover on Mars too. Some times you win sometimes you lose.China hasn’t killed a teacher and a space crew either… so does that make them better than us? I don’t think so. It’s just the price of progress sometimes. This time China fucked up and luckily didn’t kill a crew or anyone else.
That’s a little different and wouldn’t call using Nazi scientists a shortcut. More like assistance. We were already a developed nation and could’ve easily developed a space program with or without the Nazi’s help. Sure, would it have been as successful? Probably not but it would’ve existed either way. A stark contrast to what the Chinese are doing, outright IP theft from a nation that was hundreds of years behind the developed world not that long ago
Right!! LMAO except the V2 rocket was straight from germany. No American “assistance” at all.
Not really the point. Especially when germany was literally decades ahead of us.
Same could be said for China right now.
I honestly don’t think that matters. If anything it is more a testament to how fast they learn. They made up hundreds of years of technology in 50 years? Who does that? And if they really did it through theft? If Bob Lazar is right we’ve spent how many years trying to reverse engineer advanced technology and still can’t do it? but the chinese did something similar through stealing? You gotta admit that’s pretty impressive.
Except that it was us that opened up their economy to the world thinking we could control them. Boy was that wrong. China would not be a world power right now without the west propping them up. The US space industry on the other hand would’ve been just fine without the assistance of the nazi scientists.
That’s obvious but my argument is that we would’ve still developed our own aircraft. Probably less sophisticated but still space worthy. China ain’t building any aircraft without their Russian partners to provide a blueprint and the GE IPs they stole from the us
Definitely. But thinking the US is or should be able to control them just because Mr. Nixon went to China is kinda misguided anyway tho. Even more testament to their intellectual voracity. 50 years ago they were living in huts. Nixon goes to China and 50 years later they’re a Global powerhouse and landed on mars? GTFOH. That’s crazy advancement whether it was stolen or not… and even stolen makes it even more impressive because, jesus, you could show me the plans of a jet engine and I’d be hard pressed to figure it out on my own 50 years later let alone understand it with guided help 50 years later. I understand I’m not a whole country but I think the comparison applies given the level of technology they were at in the 60s and 70s
I don’t agree with that assessment at all. The US owes it’s place in the space race to Germany… Russia would probably still be well ahead of us if not for Von Braun and Germany
That’s kind of a moot point seeing that the US did roughly the same thing… So, the US didn’t technically “steal,” but we pardoned war criminals 'cause they had some intellectual loot we wanted. Sketchy ethics either way. I see what you’re saying and I don’t necessarily disagree with it, but I guess my point is if you’re looking for purity, you’re not going to find it. in this instance one crime isn’t worse than another.
I acknowledged as much. I said it probably wouldn’t have been as sophisticated but to think we wouldn’t have had a space program at all without the Nazi assistance is outright dishonest. Robert Goddart (American) came up with the rocket propulsion idea which the germans borrowed and developed before us. That doesn’t mean the us space program was devoid of innovation it was there it just wasn’t being tapped into and with the Russians showing us up in its early stages I guarantee you it would’ve been tapped into when push came to shove.
I don’t think that’s what I said. If that’s the vibe I gave I’m sorry. I guess what it comes down to for me is “everybody had help in one form or another.” So trying to downplay the Chinese’ accomplishments is a bit hyperbolic.
And now the plot thickens… I’m not a conspiracy nut and didn’t really believe the lab escape theory but I’ve changed my mind completely.
I think i’ll wait til this story is vetted through the bbc or the guardian or even cnn before i give any weight to it. I have a hard time believing the chinese government would allow those people to give an interview or part wit that footage.
Quite frankly i would think if they were really that casual around the bats this would gave exploded sooner. I have a really hard time believing scientists would be that cavalier towards potential infectious diseases… also even if all thats true it doesnt prove the virus was engineered only that it came from bats at that lab which could be through engineering or just jumped from bites from reckless scientists.
I don’t normally go for conspiracy garbage. I’m a firm believer in Occam’s razor.
I believe the lab footage was a couple years old. If COVID did involve a lab escape, I would think it was accidental. Releasing intentionally just seems suicidal to me.
If it wasn’t for the recent reporting in WSJ, I would discount all this lab escape business. I have a hard enough time coming to grips with anybody monkeying with virus intentionally as it is. I get the “trying to prevent future disease” bit but some things are just so abjectly stupid they just shouldn’t be attempted because the consequences of failure can be completely disastrous. However, there seems to be enough circumstantial evidence that the case needs to be seriously considered.
I could definitely see that if it does turn out to be a lab escape… I don’t think it would have been nefarious.
Yeah, I’ve seen that reported, but it seems the Biologists are still saying they’d be more surprised to find out it came from a lab.
Well, I definitely don’t know what I’m talking about when it comes to this type of stuff. That is why I rely on the experts instead of pundits… If it’s coming out in a journal, well, It will get torn apart by other biologists or vindicate the claims. Either way, I guess we’ll all see. Definitely strange times we’re in…
I just followed your link… The dailymail is not the most reliable source and is England’s version of the U.S.'s “The National Enquirer.” I don’t think it holds a lot weight.
The Daily Mail has been noted for its unreliability and widely criticised for its printing of sensationalist and inaccurate scare stories of science and medical research,[16][17][18][19]
This part of headline is kinda a give away: “COVID-19 ‘has NO credible natural ancestor’” That right there is nonsense… It common knowledge at this point covid is from the corona virus family which has been around for years.
it’s worth pointing out that the scientific community is overwhelmingly in favor of the zoonotic spillover theory, and there is no actual evidence to suggest a lab leak. However, until a thorough investigation is conducted, the possibility of the virus having been created in a laboratory can’t be ruled out. -IFLScience Why Is The COVID Lab Leak Theory Suddenly Gaining So Much Attention? | IFLScience
Couldn’t have said it better myself
Washinton Post article on Lab Leak theory
"But in the fall of 2020, momentum picked up again. The U.S. intelligence community had obtained information that three workers at the Wuhan lab had fallen ill in November 2019 with symptoms similar to covid, which had sent them to the hospital. Their symptoms were also similar to seasonal illnesses, including the flu, but they’d gotten sick the month before the initial cases of the disease were confirmed in Wuhan.
The officials had also come upon information that the Chinese military had been conducting experiments at the lab for years. That also renewed focus on the lab-leak theory."
That’s essentially what was reported in WSJ a few weeks ago and what made me consider that the possibility of a lab leak was plausible.
There is more on WSJ, some paywalled, some not, if you feel like looking.
Again, no idea if a lab leak is true or not but I simply can’t completely dismiss the possibility any longer.
Yeah, I think the experts are saying that as well but theyre still skeptical but like you said cant completely rule it out.
I usually check this site for these kind of subjects and they have an in-depth analysis on the lab leak hypothesis.
What a great article. I’ve book marked the site for further reading!
Everything this author has written pretty much aligns with what well respected biologists are claiming. Which is what I tend to agree with just because of the ethos of those making the claim, but some people get all crazy if you don’t entertain “both sides” of the argument. So, it’s easier to entertain what someone wants you to say to placate polite discussion. Thankfully, most scientists don’t follow that nonsense. They just call bullshit.