PROTESTS, RIOTS, DESTRUCTION..... US in Chaos

Actually, fuck the both of you. (I say that lovingly, grmps). Like a lot of things in life, this is not a binary issue. Police brutality is horrible. It’s gone on far too long. That video is infuriating and I get why there are protests and there is rioting. You’re witnessing the collective rage of an oppressed group of people. I fully support these protests.

And guess what? More senseless violence as a reaction is shitty too. They are not on the same level, clearly, but what’s happening around the country really sucks. Until it comes to your neighborhood, you won’t know what it feels like. I drove around West Hollywood yesterday, which was the epicenter of Saturday’s protests and seeing all the destruction was just so sad. All the burned out buildings, boarded up businesses. Yes, CVS will survive, but there are plenty of family owned businesses that are gone now too.

You’re allowed to be angry about both.

One of tonight’s protest spots is Sunset Blvd & Vine Street in Hollywood. This is just a few blocks from where I live. I just went to the store and everyone in my neighborhood is busy boarding up.

1 Like

Yeah I mean if you can’t see the difference between groups of people that are there to peacefully protest and those that are using this as an excuse to wreak havoc,committ violence and steal shit then I don’t know what to tell you…actually Mr Savage you seem to be doing some trivializing yourself when you say that it’s just a few windows being broken and some spray paint…there have been a ton of mom and pop stores that have been completely ravaged and destroyed…innocent people who are just trying to run a business in what is already very hard times due to covid and are now completely fucked…did you not see the video of the guy trying to protect his business while protesters beat him and his wife up with sticks and bats…that shit is happening more than you might realize…this isn’t the answer my friend…

Its a fucked up thing that happened to Mr Floyd and systemic racism has and continues to be a problem…people should be fucking pissed as fuck,no doubt…but fucking up peoples businesses and inciting MORE violence isn’t the answer…it just isn’t…it hasn’t worked in the past and it won’t now…

I guarantee if you had a business destroyed by this activity you would be singing a different tune…

More violence and looting isn’t the answer…its as plain as day…

I mean you do realize that not everyone out on the streets are there for righteous and noble reasons,right?

1 Like

I did, It’s absolutely on point and very simple to understand for even the dumbest among us.

1 Like

Seems Al has been quiet in general…

Sorry Acid and Queer but there is no trivializing here. The looting and rioting sucks for sure BUT any reaction at this point is justified as far as I’m concerned. Black people have been lynched and marginalized and scapegoated for literally hundreds of years here. This is most definitely a binary issue, Acid. If we continue to kill the African American community and our society has done, for all intents and purposes, absolutely NOTHING to stop it, what reason does that community have to not dismantle this society that allows it? Seriously, that’s a serious question? I’m sorry to say it Acid but you’re buying into the nonsense as well, you have a throw away line about police brutality being horrible and then basically 2 paragraphs on why looting and violence is wrong. No shit, it’s wrong but what do you expect when that has basically been done to your people for hundreds of years? It’s a non issue, the reactive violence is a non issue and serves to misdirect the dialogue away from the police brutality.

Mom and pop stores being burned out will bounce back, or insurance will be distributed. How man black people will never come back?

It’s not senseless violence. It’s the biblical reaction. Eye for an eye. You killed us we’re gonna kill you back.

It’s my opinion that we are not. because this violence doesn’t exist without the systemic racism that causes it. But we are too caught up talking about other shit. THe police killing people with carte blanche is wrong but now let me spend the next 1/2 hour telling you why the violent reaction to it is wrong. where does that put the weight of importance on the issues when it’s put like that?

If the protests are peaceful, great! But because we are not in that victimized group we really don’t get to tell that group how they are “allowed” to protest. That’s just unreal. We just got done killing off many in your community but you can only be mad and react about it in this way. You see how dumb that sounds? I love ya’ Acid, but this is bigger than a few burned out buildings (and yes it is a few- Look up “black wall street” where white people burned down the whole fucking town)

You think this reaction is an “excuse?” That’s insane. This is the exception not the rule.

There are no innocent people. when you look the other way when a cop is busy killing someone and you do nothing, you’re complicit. You may not be directly involved but you are supporting a system that is allowing this to happen and perpetuating the cycle to let it continue… and at the bottom line… they lose some material shit, they didn’t lose their life the african american community does. Your burned out shop is trivial. Stop talking about it. Definitely stop making it the focus.

I doubt it. I completely understand. If your people were continually brutalized and killed I’d bet you’d wanna burn some shit down too.

Nobody said it was the answer, but it is the reaction and because we as a society have done nothing to fix this we get what we get because we have allowed it.

Look at the score board in the last two post with you and Acid and ask yourself objectively where the priorities seem to be.

“Racism is bad” Side…

  1. Police brutality is horrible- Acid
  2. I get why there is protests and rioting- Acid
  3. Its a fucked up thing that happened to Mr Floyd- Queer
  4. systemic racism has and continues to be a problem. Queer

“Don’t React this way” Side

  1. More senseless violence is shitty reaction - Acid
  2. What’s happening to the country really sucks- Acid
  3. Until it comes to your neighborhood You don’t know…-Acid
  4. All the destruction was so sad -Acid
  5. Burned out and boarded up businesses-Acid
  6. Family owned businesses are gone -Acid
  7. Everyone in my neighborhood is busy boarding up -Acid
  8. Excuse to wreak havoc… -Queer
  9. Ton of mom and pop Stores destroyed -Queer
  10. INnnocent people trying to run a business in hard times. -Queer
  11. guy trying to protect his business and he and his family being hit by sticks…-Queer (Did you seen Mr. Floyd just trying to go about his business with a knee on his neck and die? )
  12. This isn’t the answer- Queer
  13. If you had a business-Queer
  14. Looting and violence is not the answer- Queer
  15. Not everyone is out for righteous and noble reasons -Queer (right but we don’t get to decide who those people are. You can’t tell them by skin color.)
    16.fucking up peoples businesses and inciting MORE violence isn’t the answer - Queer

4-16 in favor of property damage. 4 statements/ thoughts on racism and the rest is about property. it reads like the the people making those statements care more about things than people.

1 Like

Jesus man, gotta say you make good points and I like seeing your righteous anger directed towards this issue.

My concern now is the whole “yeah racism is bad mmkay, but let’s talk about what’s really bad - looting!” thing is going to literally give Trump a go ahead to launch martial law and blame black people and “antifa” for it and the overall population will go along with it.

1 Like

I’ll be honest with you grumpy, I’m not reading all of that…I’m too god damn tired…

So many people have this whitewashed vision of the Civil Rights Movement being entirely passive resistance and nonviolence and that’s just not true.

2 Likes

“Screw you guys! I’m going home.”

1 Like

That’s really the over all problem though isn’t it? If you can’t be arsed to read something that’s important and that fully explains the situation, you never really get the full understanding do you? I guess go on bemoaning CVS while the black community struggles to breathe… Goddamn shame, and the malls burning probably won’t end any time soon with a ton of people who don’t care to understand. I still like ya’ queer but I can’t say I’m not a little disappointed.

Good be gone dickhead. Were you ever really here?

My favorite posts from this idiot…

And then a few posts later says…

Of course he’s republican. Selfish little bitch who has no concept of logic or empathy. Good riddance, you disease.

I kinda assumed he would use covid 19 to suspend elections, but now with civil unrest it’s a done deal.

Hahahaha! Grmps, I swear I tried to make those paragraphs as even as possible. Of course, as a teacher, you would pick up on that.

I know you like to dissect things and tear them apart point-by-point. I’m not going to do that with you here. I still stand by what I said.

I just truly feel you are doing a great disservice to yourself by approaching a problem as complex as this in such a binary fashion. It’s a very reactionary liberal thing to do, and I fall prey to it myself. (“You think this, so you must be that”). That’s just not true. Gunnar and I were discussing a similar issue just last week on FB. There is a lot of “gray area” in what’s happening.

Myself, I have participated in 3 riots in my lifetime. None of them were anywhere near as worthy of a cause as this one. I’ve seen mob rule up close, and know how quickly the tide changes. Hell, if I weren’t such an old codger, I’d probably be out there with them, throwing rocks at the police, because as we all know “wasting pigs is radical, man.”

The one point I was trying to make, which was sorta lost here, was that I think you might have a different perspective if this were happening around you. You’re out there in the desert and I doubt this is happening at all. And if so, certainly not at the level that it is happening here. I mean no condescension, I simply think you might have a different take if it was your neighborhood on fire.

As I sit here typing this, the sound of helicopters and sirens is constant. Bet it was pretty quiet there when you went to bed tonight.

All that said, I hear where you are coming from. We agree probably 99% of the time on our politics. However, I reject your assertion that I am some how racist (or at least complacent) simply because I find it sad that large portions of my city have been destroyed. I’m also furious at those goddamned cops. I’m allowed to have more than one emotion at a time.

Tomorrow, along with many of my “asshole” Hollywood producer colleagues, I am going to participate in #BlackOutTuesday. I urge you to do the same.

1 Like

Sorry for not staying up current on the thread (I’ll try to catch up later).
I don’t usually discuss our President. I’m usually pretty apathetic about political figures, but today was really something else. Watching him blow smoke about supporting peaceful protestors at the same time that he had troops violently wipe said protestors clear so that he could walk over to the church for his photo op. It was just jaw dropping. It was horrifying with everything that was going on, but his staging was downright comical (if we isolate it away from the nightmare). Even his shitty staged photo ops are awkwardly awful. He negotiated holding that Bible like he was an alien from another planet, holding some object that he’d never seen before. It was so strange.

Anyway, sounds like things are calming down, and it also seems like AMERICA is finally getting as sick of all the bullshit and tyranny as “black America” is. I’m horrified at the madness, but at least hopeful that people do finally seem open to dialogue.

1 Like

Egh?! what am I gonna do? I teach critical thinking and grade papers for a living. It’s second nature.

Seriously, how is this a complex problem? I’m asking honestly. What are the complexities of this situation? We (as a society) have let this shit go on for far too long. We have to expect a reaction, and unfortunately we don’t get to decide what that reaction is, if we did, it wouldn’t really be a reaction, it would be us giving them an option and still keeping them from holding any kind of power. This isn’t about looting (well for some it is, although I’m sure they have their own oppression stories but different aveue of the same street) this is about trying to take some power back. Injustice is clearly a problem and unfortunately the black community takes the brunt of it… you know this. (not condescending just stating fact)

I find it hard to see any “gray area” here.

That’s not my style. I wouldn’t participate in riots. I certainly wouldn’t antagonize the cops. but I will vote, I will discuss, I will make my opinions known, but I’m pretty anti-violence. I know your laughing in light of my stance on this subject but I don’t condone the rioting either but I don’t see it as rioting, it’s not looting, it’s police brutality. This is what police brutality looks like. It’s far more than just the single incident of violence. It touches us all as you can plainly see. A little too close unfortunately for you. For me all of this is still police brutality we’re seeing and feeling.

But this IS happening around me. I live here. I will suffer the fall out from this, as well. I understand what you’re suggesting. yeah my neighborhood is not burning at the moment but that doesn’t mean i’m not affected. We’ve had the helicopters buzzing over head for the past 24 hours. the sirens are going all hours. People were arrested trying to loot the staples here. there’s been protester clashes all along bear valley. Here and Barstow are now under curfew. President dickhead will likely suspend elections… you’re crazy if you think this doesn’t affect me.

I would be upset if my neighborhood was on fire but I wouldn’t be upset at the rioters. I would be and am upset at the injustices in this country that leads to this. Being upset that my neighborhood is on fire still misses the overall point. “I don’t give a fuck that black people are dying at a record pace but you lit my house/business on fire now I’m pissed” those are fucked up priorities. As I said in the other paragraph This isn’t rioters, this isn’t looters, this is the ugly fall out of injustice and police brutality. Your neighborhood/town is on fire because everyone looked the other way to injustice and police brutality. The desert isn’t getting hit that hard because for the most part we don’t have the population or the injustices that bigger cities have. but were certainly not immune to this. It’s that attitude that the allows these conditions to thrive. “Not my community, not my problem” is just not true.

not in bed yet, but not at all. sirens, helicopters, horns honking, people yelling, all day today, pretty quiet now but that’s because as I mentioned the curfew

I think we agree here too. My overall point is to keep the blame and the focus where it belongs

I never asserted you were racist, and I sincerely apologize if I came across that way or gave you that idea. I like you a lot, man and not just on line, you’re a cool dude to hang with the several times we’ve hung out. I don’t think you’re racist. I’m sorry I gave that vibe. As far as complacent, you are complacent BUT not just you, we are ALL complacent. That wasn’t directed at you specifically but all of society. Me included. We as a country have let this happen. We turn the other way because as you said “it’s not my neighborhood.” Well, we’re not black so injustice is not our problem… but the fires in your neighborhood would now suggest otherwise. Ya’ see what I mean?

I’m not down on you for being sad that portions of your neighborhood are destroyed. I certainly don’t see you as racist or complacent because of your feelings on your neighborhood or any reason. I feel for you and I’m scared for you. I hope nothing hits you. I do think your anger is misplaced. This is about injustice and police brutality. The looters the rioters, the arsonists… this is all at the hands of our authorities. So, to me, bringing up property damage is beside the point (Unless youre laying it at the feet of the cops) and detours the action that must be taken in response and refocuses the problem to how horrible the victimized are behaving.

Definitely, dude. For sure. I’m sorry I gave the idea that you weren’t. but lets keep the focus where it needs to be… On the injustices that have touched this off. People don’t riot for no reason (unless, as vic pointed out, because someone won a championship game)

?? Did I call your hollywood producer colleagues “assholes?” I’m not sure what this is in response to.

I’m not sure what this entails of me since I don’t release music.

The TL;DR is this…
Worrying and complaining about the property damage does nothing. Stamp out the injustices and the police brutality and the property damage goes away. So the conversation should never be about property damage it needs to be about injustice and police brutality. You (as in society) DGAF about my life and have very little respect for it. Well, then I DGAF about your house or your business. It’s time we start caring.

1 Like

A wrinkle in this I don’t think anyone has brought up yet is that a lot of the property damage is being done by white supremacists and agent provocateurs within the police department in order to make the protesters look bad. I’m not claiming all the violence is on them, but some of it is and that must be factored in.

Nah it’s nothing that involved,grmps its just that arguing with you isn’t high on my list of priorities…life is too short…I’ve seen how engaging in that exercise in futility has gone for other people and it doesn’t behoove me to do so…you seem to think that bludgeoning people with a litany of texts is the way to get your point across…not my style and it is just exhausting to read…I stand by what I said…I abhor racism and I abhor people who loot and destroy the property of innocent people(and sometimes use violence against those innocent people)in the name of protest…that will never change…I’m not “bemoaning CVS property damage”…that’s a very drastic deduction of my feelings on the matter…still like ya too grmps but am a little disappointed that you can’t see that and that you paint me with such a broad stroke without really knowing jack shit about me or what I’ve been through…I’m in a melting pot of people down here in Miami and I have brothers and sisters of all colors and am firmly entrenched in that tapestry of culture down here…so yeah I still like you too grmps but I take it personally the implication that I somehow am blase regarding this fucking nightmare racism that still sadly exists in this country…what I oppose is more violence in response to that…especially against people who are innocent of engaging in this ugly racism…and grmps you come off a bit self righteous and sanctimonious when you say “when you can’t be arsed to read something that is important and fully explains the situation”…see, I don’t feel you have fully explained the situation…but I do feel you are like an attack dog that has no problem engaging in petty name calling and are very quick to assume you know more that others…I just disagree with you and I can do that and I stand fully behind what I have said…

In 1980 I was 9 years old and remember the riots here in Miami over the shooting of an unarmed black man named Arthur McDuffie…I lived about a 7 min drive from those riots(I still do as I bought my parents house)…I still have a very vivid image of standing in my back yard and watching ashes fall in to my pool as Liberty City burned…I couldn’t understand the gravity of it the time but I knew it wasn’t good…

There was looting and rioting for 3 days straight until the national guard came in and calmed things down…in that instance rioting and looting was widespread…that was 40 fucking years ago and nothing was gained from that activity except some poor innocent business ownerswho lost everything and some who were violently pulled from out of their businesses and beaten senselessly…my parents new some of them personally…a few never recovered and one man even comiited suicide over his inability to protect his family…and some were also people of color…all people who didn’t have a racist bone in their bodies…they were terrorized and trumatized…here we are 40 years later and this shit is happening again and this same behavior won’t solve jack fucking shit…there is nothing you can ever say that will convince me that violence will solve violence…(and yes I went back and read your post grmpy I was just too tired last night)…it isn’t JUST property damage…it is violent acts against totally innocent people just trying to live their lives in what are already hard times…and that isn’t right anyway you slice it…that’s why a shit load of black leaders are calling for an end to it…go listen to Udonis Haslems speech…

I couldn’t give a fuck about Target, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, etc.
Most of us do not.
It’s gross that people who are literally in fear for their lives and the lives of others or saddened to see that their neighbors have been completely robbed of everything that they’ve worked their asses off for 10, 20, 30 or more years get reduced to “CRYING ABOUT TARGET”.

Yes, I am ALSO saddened to know that thousands of people who relied on such stores for access to resources or access to a paycheck are now fucked, but most of the stores and facilities being destroyed are not some billion dollar corporations. And our bigger concern is the ACTUAL harm of living human beings. People ARE being beaten savagely for the crime of telling criminals (I will not honor them with the title of “demonstrator”) to please leave their laundry/electronics/produce/shoe/whatever store alone. And most of the people doing such savagery have fuck all to do with anything remotely concerned with justice or civil rights. They’re opportunists, and no, they are not just black either.

If anyone who is supportive or complacent in the destruction actually understands the systemic racism that this country is built on, they will also understand that it is NOT the billionaire corporate fat cats who suffer from all this destruction. They’ll be just fine as they always are. This shit is passed down to the bottom, always. It’s the average Joe and the people who are hanging on by a thread that will be pushed down even more.

We got locked up for three months and people put out of work and unemployment is at a level we’ve never seen. We’re told before all this that we’re a trillion billion (no, I don’t care to look up actual figures or try to make sense of them, so don’t cut hairs here) in debt . . . . yet we give out $3 Trillion of checks to “stimulate the economy”. What the fuck are we stimulating when everything is closed? Amazon, Costco, Walmart, and Target will laugh all the way to the bank every time because they’re the only game in town and since it looks shady as fuck for the government to just trade money with such corporations day to day in full view they pretend that they’re giving it to the people.

Sorry, I got off track and forgot where I was going, haha. Anyway, cities in general are broke as fuck now. And the cities that struggled before are going to do even worse now. The pie is less and the people who were crying for just a sliver before now get nothing. No funds? Oh, okay, we’ll cut the library, cut after school sports, cut this, cut that, cut the grants that would have helped the minority-owned small businesses BEFORE they were burned to the ground because now what’s the point.

This is the America we live in, and yes, it’s a fucked up pile of shit that has a huge problem of racism. But guess what . . . it’s OUR racism. The problem is everyone points at “THEM”. I don’t just mean Sally Buttondown turning her nose at the so-called thugs and troublemakers. I mean ALL of us choosing each day to demonize everyone around us instead of talking to each other.
Grumpy is right in highlighting the nation’s division and seeing a population who, after being crushed under knee and gun so many times eventually exploded. But for anyone to sit back and play armchair quarterback and pick out good guys and bad guys based on how much they align with their own ideologies and attitudes is still counterproductive.

We’re a nation run on mob mentality. It’s in the streets for those stuck there, and for those fortunate enough to be safely removed, it’s on the Internet. People don’t define their own social goodness by what they’ve DONE for a community, but by how loud they can scream against someone else.

America is not THEM, it’s US. Let’s stop trying to spotlight ourselves and think about actually improving ourselves. I see a lot of skinny white boys who drive in from Encino to wear black hoods on their faces and smash glass and write “ACAB” on buildings where they don’t live, and certainly which they won’t pay for. Does that help anything? I hope that such people, when they see the destruction we’ve all made, will reassess and help REBUILD.

Let’s hold police accountable. But let’s also understand that if we expect to have the “service” of them we need to invest ourselves and take ownership. They are as much a part of US as the looters. I’ve taken a lot of personal review and admit I’m not super proud of my own performance in this country and in my community either. I’m working on doing better. That doesn’t mean shouting down and attacking everyone that disagrees with me. I don’t know what the point of saying my beliefs and emotions are if I don’t listen to others’.
I like to be challenged and I want to be held accountable too.

I don’t want to be part of a so-called two party system that fails time and time again to find commonality . . . especially when they are really no different from each other. We “bailed out” corporate America under Obama and we do the same under Trump. And the common political narrative will now be sold is that if someone doesn’t vote for Biden then they are siding with racism? Why is the “non-racist” side represented by yet another rich old white guy who TELLS other black people that their blackness is defined by HIS reality? And let’s not forget that the rich old white lady that felt ENTITLED to be our President last time called everyone else “deplorable”.

Fuck it all. People are not deplorable. They’re broken. If we don’t try to work with our redneck doofus neighbors to show them that they are just as at stake by the wellbeing and safety of our black brothers as anyone else is, we’ll never get anywhere. But instead, all sides divide. Sure, some people are just going to be dumb shitheads regardless, but if we don’t show examples of what is BETTER, how are they going to think differently?

Anyway, I just see a greatly divided country and I see the same people who shout about coming together are just as against that togetherness as anyone else. At least there’s a recognition of the long historical disparity of economic opportunity and justice with respect to different groups (ethnic and otherwise) but I would like to see the people that decry it also own it. It’s not possible to just stand up and demand a country to be different, but we can certainly choose to ACT differently in our own lives and in our own communities.

I saw a Sheriff just outside my house who was moving a bunch of barricades, so I went out and helped him move them (it was comical at first, since I didn’t know how they were built and I ended up inadvertantly causing more damage at first, haha). I didn’t do this because I support “dirty” cops or even a system which is overall quite problematic, but because these are MY cops, and also because I saw them act on Friday night with incredible self-control and care as they managed a crowd which also had a heavy contingency of people screaming at their faces and taunting them, clearly TRYING to get them to do exactly what they claim to be protesting against. They kept their cool and kept EVERYONE safe. But then about 15 minutes later I heard a black guy outside who was having a conversation about economics and tension and injustice and such (I was inside and only heard fragments without context). I went outside and introduced myself to my neighbor, Paul, who I’d never met (we really don’t know many of our neighbors AT ALL) and while we didn’t have any deep intellectual discussions about anything, we made an agreement that we’d look out for each other’s places and if either needed anything, all we had to do was knock on the door. This isn’t anything radical. But I just want to try to be a guy that talks WITH people and not for them or at them.

We can oppose racism and still oppose crime.
We can understand that there is a larger context of the destruction while still having empathy for victims thereof. Understanding the existence of and damage of white privilege should also come with the responsibility of owning and managing one’s own.

Sorry for all the babble, but I really think we can ALL do better.

2 Likes