track 1 & 2 …is on youtube
track 3…starts off like Nothing from Schaft…then continues to sound like his newer stuff.
track 4 basically an instrumental…keyboard driven.
Pretty good for a first listen.
Wow! So 2 years and 2 months after first hearing about this “supergroup”, someone has an actual CD in hand! And after all this time, and with all the major name talent involved in this project, the first review is in:
“Pretty good.”
Good job, Knicker. There’s a pull quote for the promo poster.[/reply]
Of course it’s all bullshit but everyone needs to hear track 4…NOW!
track 1 & 2 …is on youtube
track 3…starts off like Nothing from Schaft…then continues to sound like his newer stuff.
track 4 basically an instrumental…keyboard driven.
Pretty good for a first listen.
Wow! So 2 years and 2 months after first hearing about this “supergroup”, someone has an actual CD in hand! And after all this time, and with all the major name talent involved in this project, the first review is in:
“Pretty good.”
Good job, Knicker. There’s a pull quote for the promo poster.[/reply]
Of course it’s all bullshit but everyone needs to hear track 4…NOW![/reply]
I streamed all of the tracks earlier today. I like it. I’ll buy it.
I thought I’d check back in on you. After all has been said and done I’m proud of the releases. A lot of good people put in a lot of effort and it was a huge undertaking. Now that the first part of it is out there it’s fun to read reactions for it. Good, bad, indifferent I’m cool with it. Music is different for everyone and that’s what makes it cool. Did it turn out exactly like I imagined when I first conceptualized? No. It grew, evolved, and changed over time. That was a fun part of the process.
Why PIG vs. Primitive Race? Easy, Raymond has such a distinct sound, voice, and style that is undeniably him. Rather than shy away from that we thought in the end the best thing to do would be to embrace it. Both Raymond and I are happy with it. He took what I felt was a pretty cool groove I had written and did what he does best. On another track as soon as I heard it the direction was clear. It needed to be more visceral and MGT gave it these great driving guitars. Raymond and I have already discussed possibly doing another EP. We’ll see.
If I could go back and do some things differently I probably would. First off, crowd funding sucks. I will never do it again. I dipped my toe in the water because there was some curiosity about using as a large scale release platform. Product fulfillment was a nightmare on the international stuff. Stuff getting returned, not go through customs, and still to this day hoping everyone got their orders. In cases with disappointed supporters all I could do would ship replacements, add in some extras, hope they get there. Or in extreme cases just apologize and offer refunds. Domestic orders weren’t such a big deal I could get delivery confirmation. Still, there were a few issues like envelopes being mutilated in transit and arriving empty. That meant having to send replacements. During that period I was purchasing crowd funding from other bands. My experience as a customer was hit and miss. Things would arrive, arrive late, or I would never get them at all. In the end I learned crowd fund was not for me.
The next thing I would have done differently is not try to give a real time look into the project start to finish. People just don’t have the attention span or patience for that. They want it and they want it now. They don’t care about the project having delays because contributors are touring with their other projects. They don’t care about the business of releasing something and the turn times and delays that causes. There were many times I was forced into a hurry up and wait position for various reasons. It was frustrating beyond belief. Then people get pissed and feel like it’s endless hype. There’s a fine line there and no way to keep everyone happy. Some people had fun with it and that was the whole intent. Others got pissed off. I’ll never understand that. It’s just a band. It’s music and entertainment. It’s not life and death. I hate that it came off as hyperbole or as trolling. Another thing I can’t stand is the “supergroup” moniker and some of the overhyped bio info out there. That sounds so damn pretentious. I’ve worked on some records in my life. Some of which I liked more than others. I’m just a guy…certainly no star. To me it was just about working with some cool friends trying to make a record.
I’m happy with it. I’m proud of it. I enjoyed creating something. I met some amazing people around the world that have become great friends. In the end would I do the project again knowing what I know now? I’m not sure.
To address some of the vitriol some of you seem to have towards me. I don’t get it. I’m just a guy with some of the same interests as you. Get to know me. You might find we’re actually more similar than you thought. We might become friends.
Thanks for paying attention. It was a learning experience. I hope you enjoy it. If not, that’s cool too.
The next thing I would have done differently is not try to give a real time look into the project start to finish. People just don’t have the attention span or patience for that. They want it and they want it now.
I know nothing of your project. I only know what I’ve read on this thread, and you would appear delusional if you honestly think this is what the problem was that people had with you.
Everyone understands delays, but you made an entire EP, 4 whole songs out of it. shafted people on promised perks such as a paper sack puppet. That’s just shoddy PR.
[reply]The next thing I would have done differently is not try to give a real time look into the project start to finish. People just don’t have the attention span or patience for that. They want it and they want it now.
I know nothing of your project. I only know what I’ve read on this thread, and you would appear delusional if you honestly think this is what the problem was that people had with you.
Everyone understands delays, but you made an entire EP, 4 whole songs out of it. shafted people on promised perks such as a paper sack puppet. That’s just shoddy PR.[/reply]
Hi Smurf, Thanks for the reply. You may have missed the paragraph preceding your quote. Believe me I’m not a fan of crowd funding. I tried it both as a project manager and a customer of others and the experiences were all poor. I can’t recommend crowd funding to anyone based on my experiences on both sides of a transaction. I will never ever do something using crowd funding again. I’ll elaborate a little more. To be clear every order was shipped (in some cases replacements were sent). In a couple of cases where I had complaints I offered refunds. In other cases my inquiries to this day have never been responded to (simple things like “what size shirt do you wear?” or “what is your twitter handle so I can send a tweet to you?” were never replied to). It’s impossible to fulfill an order when you get no response. It’s also frustrating (particularly so with international orders because once they leave the USA they can’t be tracked) that once the item is mailed it’s out of your hands. How do you think I felt when I got an email with a photo of a mutilated envelope from a customer? Needless to say I was pretty angry with USPS. I thanked all the supporters in the liner notes of the LITT release. Whether their experience was good, bad, or neutral with crowd funding I wanted to go above and beyond so each person knows they are appreciated. I would never ever want to give the shaft to someone much less someone that had interest enough in what I was doing. I wouldn’t be able to live with myself. I may have made some mistakes with certain things along the way. But, I’m not stupid enough to want to hurt the very people that actually care about what I was trying to do.
There’s more material than just this EP. There’s a full album to be released August 7. In addition there’s another EP completed and some other odds and ends remixes and such that will be released along the way through early to mid 2016.
Ignorance of how shipping and logistics work has nothing to do with crowd funding. If you don’t understand the basics of shipping (especially with respect to international stuff) you’re not equipped to sell product into such regions. Whether it’s a pre-release bag puppet or an LP is immaterial.
Ignorance of how shipping and logistics work has nothing to do with crowd funding. If you don’t understand the basics of shipping (especially with respect to international stuff) you’re not equipped to sell product into such regions. Whether it’s a pre-release bag puppet or an LP is immaterial.
I kinda figured he missed the point on purpose. Meh, whatever. Glad i had no interest to begin with because this thread and the experiences contained within would have certainly made me an unfan.
I dont think hes read the whole thread. I think hes coming from a different idea of how some see the project. Whatever. Good luck to his fans.
Gunnar, that’s absolutely a completely fair statement. Which is why when I gave it a 2nd go I only offered to domestic locations. I wanted to see if by learning from some things it might go more smoothly. For the most part it did. However, this is the time USPS destroyed a package going to someone. At that point in tandem with some poor experiences I had as a customer of other projects I determined crowd funding just wasn’t for me. I’m still waiting for crowd funded purchases I made on two projects from the UK almost 2 years ago. From now on if I do anything order fulfillment must be handled by a third party or if I order something it’s coming from a facility.
The odd thing was the UK was simple. Canada not so much. Mexico no problem. Australia sucked! All the customs forms etc were filled out the same. An Average Joe would assume if the forms are filled out and one territory has no issues another wouldn’t be an issue. In my case that turned out to not be the case. Sadly I learned a tough lesson and made my best effort to make sure people were satisfied. I also felt compelled to try and go above and beyond and I thanked all of the supporters in the liner notes. I felt like I had to do something to try and make up for the inconvenience some had felt. I also wanted all of them to know I appreciate them. It sucked because for a handful of people something we shared an excitement about didn’t go well. That left me feeling extremely frustrated and deflated as well. I want people to be happy.
At any rate if anyone checks it out I hope you enjoy and you can generally catch me on twitter if you want to chat. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. I gotta mow the lawn.
If you didn’t receive a download that you purchased from crowdfunding, you need to contact them and tell them. Be persistent. They have to go in and send you an email with the links in it. If they received hundreds or thousands of purchases, it’s easy to miss a few. if it was just a scam to get money, you are not the only one waiting. (Been there myself for a bluray, but at least they did finish the concert footage and eventually sent out the link to the final product.)
Having sold upwards of 1k of shit on eBay (discs, clothes, shoes, etc.) and shipped friends in Canada and the US posters, USPS is the way to go inside the USA and outside to Canada (it takes between 14 to 30 days for an item to arrive to them in Canada and they have to be reminded of that). Outside that, USPS Priority Mail or EMS - depending on value. I’ve shipped shit to the UK, Australia, Mexico, and Brazil also. I have a shipping scale and make sure I estimate the cost just north of what I think it should be based on weight if I can’t send flat rate or it makes more sense than flat rate.
It was a learning experience to get it just right. Now you know.
If stuff is getting mangled, you are not packaging it well enough. I use tyvek envelopes because they are pretty much water-resistant and have to be cut open. Stick shit in a heavy cardboard mailer (not press board) and wrap it in tyvek. Short of it getting run over by the truck or missorted, it should get there.
I have received items from all over the world, including many Japanese imports from Japan. Only twice in ten years have I had an issue with the mail not arriving.
[reply]Just to clarify, Chris worked everything out with me regarding the mask. Thanks again Chris.
I’m very happy with the CD. I’ve played it through several times and like it a lot!
PICS NOW!!!
I still have yet to see one of these infamous bag masks.[/reply]
Dude, remember when you were doing the high quality aluminum Ministry merch? I’m shocked you didn’t produce any bootleg Primitive Race masks. It could have been ‘signed by Eerie load’ or whatever his name is.
I think the thing about the crowdfunding is that it enables any jackass to pandhandle to a large audience with virtually no accountability. Instead of holding a bucket in front of the supermarket saying, “Give Money For Homeless” they don’t even have to look at anyone’s face.
I would be very skeptical about these things. If the funding is for something that you know can happen anyway, and is just giving you access to something cool or a foot first on something, so be it . . . but putting money towards some shit ass no name project without the resources or money to get something done is called “betting on a losing horse”.
I bought the last Rigor Mortis release through Indiegogo because I know all the members and they actually had a COMPLETED ALBUM and were just using the vehicle to get some upfront capital on something that was being pressed anyway. And they included other cool stuff in the packs (shot glasses, shirts, flasks, whatever).
I also give to the fundraiser sites when someone I know has died or had a bad tragedy and I know that the person running the event/collection is straight up and will ensure the funds get to the beneficiary.
Problem is that a lot of ventures use crowd funding as start-up capital and then use lack of “investors” as their reason for failure. But just looking at such things often shows how ridiculous they are to begin with.
“Hey, we need $20,000 to make an album, give us $100 and you can be the first to have the album and a t-shirt when it’s done.”
No, thank you. Your inability to successfully manage your career and business does NOT fall on my lap. Make an album/ movie/ shirt, etc. and if I think it’s cool, I’ll pay for it. I buy things that exist, not things that “might one day get made if the people that are planning on making it get enough money to make it and get around to doing so.”
Yo. Mic check one. Original free-style diss for y’all:
There’s a time and a place, for a Primitive Race.
but now the Race is up in K-Lite’s FACE.
So it’s time for a taste of my Test from “…Waste”:
Cuz I ain’t tryn’ ta front with no paper bag promotion,
Shit’s played out like anything by Billy Ocean
and check this dope notion from a master mind in motion:
That sucka begs for “likes,” while K-Lite is rockin’ mics
and stayin’ on point while ol’ Knikes takes a hike
down to the cut-out bin, to check up on his sales
dude gets crowdfunded and he think he saved the whales
but shit is so stale, I don’t even check the mail
or listen to the tale of how it sound like Nine Inch Nails
more like Nine Year Wait
boy your cuts just come too late
so step to K-Lite, and accept yo fuckin’ fate.