From the reports I’ve heard and read, there’s no particular “political” leaning of the kid in terms of Conservative or Liberal or whatever. What they ARE saying is that he’s completely bananas and that his “views” and ramblings were disconnected and sometimes completely nonsensical.
The discussions are pretty much accepting his supposed mental illness as a given.
From the reports I’ve heard and read, there’s no particular “political” leaning of the kid in terms of Conservative or Liberal or whatever.
It hardly matters what his political leanings were…but it does matter that the conservative right-wing media and in some cases…conservative right-wing politicians encourage and revel in violent threats against others. Limbaugh as publicly stated that liberals should be killed and this is just the tip of the iceberg. It’s easy to see how someone who is unhinged and armed could go off. But is the right-wing media apologetic? Quite the contrary.
And if you think words don’t matter…just remember…Manson never killed anyone himself. His words and actions were enough to get him a life sentence.
[reply]From the reports I’ve heard and read, there’s no particular “political” leaning of the kid in terms of Conservative or Liberal or whatever.
It hardly matters what his political leanings were…but it does matter that the conservative right-wing media and in some cases…conservative right-wing politicians encourage and revel in violent threats against others. Limbaugh as publicly stated that liberals should be killed and this is just the tip of the iceberg. It’s easy to see how someone who is unhinged and armed could go off. But is the right-wing media apologetic? Quite the contrary.
And if you think words don’t matter…just remember…Manson never killed anyone himself. His words and actions were enough to get him a life sentence.[/reply]
Can you give me a source or reference for Limbaugh stating that “liberals should be killed”?
I’m no fan of the guy (I think he’s a fat, bloated, hypocritical douchebag) but I often hear third parties speak of what he (or other conservative windbags) “thinks” of “says” but it mostly seems a bunch of hyperbole and hearsay.
Anyway, regardless . . . I don’t really care what someone wants to express as their beliefs or feelings as I believe in free expression.
Talking about how liberals are a bunch of commie socialist bastards who want to ruin our country and take our guns away or making a website with pictures of scope sightings on peoples’ heads is vastly different from going on a rampage and shooting a bunch of people.
People need to be held accountable for their own actions.
Can you give me a source or reference for Limbaugh stating that “liberals should be killed”?
People need to be held accountable for their own actions.
“I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus - living fossils - so we will never forget what these people stood for.”
And in case you’re curious, here’s an entire file of “Eliminationist Quotes from Conservative Voices” including the infamous “Liberal Hunting License”
http://www.commonplacebook.com/current_events/politics/eliminationist.shtm
So, it’s been claimed that the shooter is JEWISH, and that he and his family go to the same synagogue as Giffords:
If this is true, why is the press not picking up on this? It might not even be politically motivated.
Someone didn’t get a dradle this Chanukah.
“I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus - living fossils - so we will never forget what these people stood for.”
All right, well, that’s a good example. I (and most people with a functioning brain) wouldn’t have taken it any differently than any stupid “kill all the lawyers” joke or anything, though.
I’m not saying his statement above (which is now 15 years old) isn’t in bad taste (it is), but someone who’s going to take that as a call to arms and go out and kill a bunch of folk is just as likely to shoot himself in the face because he listened to a Judas Priest record.
We used to have some great black militant (Black Muslims) people on my university campus with newspapers and rhetoric about killing whitey (or Jews) or whatever. It never bothered me. I actually liked talking to them (but I was pissed that they always wanted a dollar for the newspaper) and, while much of their stuff was totally bananas, I think they did have some valid and intelligent things to say.
I never thought they should be silenced (even though I was supposedly “the enemy”) and am perfectly happy with them speaking their message and expressing themselves. If one of them committed an act of violence, then they should be held accountable, but I don’t think we should censor ideas or opinions just because we disagree with them.
The Manson argument is a little far-fetched. If we ever find an example of Rush, or Glenn Beck, or whomever actually encouraging a specific person to kill a specific person, then yes . . . THAT is something that will be worthy of prosecution. But stupid jokes or cartoons, as unfunny as they may be, aren’t, in my opinion, a reason to get all bent out of shape.
I think anyone that’s strongly affiliated with any party is just fanatical and not realistic. That is where you get the whole “these people need to die” or “all of them are ignorant” talk. Both sides of the political spectrum have their radicals and really it’s not that one party is less or more dangerous than the other. Simply the dude was a dick.
I am a conservative and a lot of my views are closer to the libretatian party than any other but still i think all parties are disgusting and only around to create division. The crap this dude did was just hateful. Lots of politicians, talk show hosts and musicians say super outrageous comments but when someone actually practices what they say it’s still the assailants fault for doing it. Everyone should be held accountable for their own actions. To put blame on anyone for possible inspiration is just looking for scapegoats.
[reply]“I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus - living fossils - so we will never forget what these people stood for.”
All right, well, that’s a good example. I (and most people with a functioning brain) wouldn’t have taken it any differently than any stupid “kill all the lawyers” joke or anything, though.
The Manson argument is a little far-fetched. If we ever find an example of Rush, or Glenn Beck, or whomever actually encouraging a specific person to kill a specific person, then yes . . . THAT is something that will be worthy of prosecution. But stupid jokes or cartoons, as unfunny as they may be, aren’t, in my opinion, a reason to get all bent out of shape.[/reply]
You asked for an example…I gave it to you. There are plenty of others. And, you’ve got the context of Shakespeare’s “kill all the lawyers” completely wrong. It was meant as a compliment to lawyers, to the important service they perform. It was uttered by a treacherous Shakespeare character mind you…one who had violent overthrow of the government on his mind.
The Manson comparison is totally rational. Here are some examples of right-wing violence that were triggered by hate speech. On 27 July 2008, Jim David Adkisson walked into a church and shot nine people, killing two and wounding seven. Adkisson said he was motivated by hatred of “Democrats, liberals, n-----s, and faggots.” A police search of his home found books by Michael Savage, Sean Hannity, and Bill O’Reilly. On 31 May 2009, Scott Roeder shot and killed gynecologist Dr. George Tiller while Tiller was attending church services.
In the months leading up to the assassination, Bill O’Reilly had waged a “relentless campaign” against Tiller, a campaign of exactly the type that would be expected to stir up violence against the doctor.
In January 2010 Roeder was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to life without parole. At present his accomplices and enablers have not yet been indicted and charged.
Savage, Hannity and O’Reilly should be made to pay for their statements in a court of law…just like Manson had to.
I think people in Arizona have to over-compensate. Have you seen their flag? It’s the gayest flag ever! Seriously, look at this thing? Who made it? Some friggin’ 10 year old who thought Wonder Woman was so cool that the flag should be modeled after her crotch?
This flag is retarded. My state, California, has a kickass flag. It’s a friggin’ Grizzly Bear! This is the first I’ve really known of the Arizona flag and they are our neighbors. I bet no one even flies this joke.
State flags aren’t exactly the quintessential benchmark of graphic design. they’re made up of symbols and stripes…or as in California’s case, furry animals that go rawr…what do you expect? Living here my whole life, I’m used to it, but it’s neither better or worse than any other flag. The stripes represent the counties, the star represents our copper industry, and the blue is liberty/freedom, there’s your history lesson for today. Besides, bagging on something that was designed over a hundred years ago seems a little…odd. Yes, we don’t fly the state flag anywhere, we’re so ashamed…how did you guess? [tongue]
It’s hilarious to see all the anti-AZ resentment surface again. “They’re still the Wild West out there” is a popular, misguided statement. It’s as if, all of a sudden, no one has ever shot someone anywhere else on the planet, ever…just here. The backlash, ignorance and generalizing is very entertaining.
1002
100 years old? Seriously? I doubt that, but, hey, if you say so. I guess it was Wonder Woman that was a fan of Arizona and not the other way around. I bet that lasso is great for catching Mexicans.
You don’t need to get all defensive about your state, Dude. I have no beef with Arizona. I just think your flag is horrible. You’re obviously jealous because California’s is awesome!
\And, you’ve got the context of Shakespeare’s “kill all the lawyers” completely wrong. It was meant as a compliment to lawyers, to the important service they perform.
I wasn’t trying to make a Shakespeare reference (I was just referring to jokes in general that refer to killing lawyers or any group for that matter).
I hope if someone ever wants to compliment me they don’t do so by suggesting I be killed. Wild stuff. Weird wild stuff.
The Manson comparison is totally rational. Here are some examples of right-wing violence that were triggered by hate speech. On 27 July 2008, Jim David Adkisson walked into a church and shot nine people, killing two and wounding seven. Adkisson said he was motivated by hatred of “Democrats, liberals, n-----s, and faggots.” A police search of his home found books by Michael Savage, Sean Hannity, and Bill O’Reilly. On 31 May 2009, Scott Roeder shot and killed gynecologist Dr. George Tiller while Tiller was attending church services.
OH MY GOD!!! BOOOOOOKKKSSS!!! Seriously, Dude, I don’t give a rat’s ass what books he was reading. These guys like O’Reilly are political windbags, not violent revolutionaries.
The Columbine kids were all into Marilyn Manson. I suppose he’s to blame for that, right?
Savage, Hannity and O’Reilly should be made to pay for their statements in a court of law.
All right. You gave me one thin, unfunny joke by Limbaugh from 15 years ago that supposedly called for the murder of liberals. Can you please show me what statements Savage, Hannity, and O’Reilly need to “pay for” in a court of law.
100 years old? Seriously? I doubt that, but, hey, if you say so. I guess it was Wonder Woman that was a fan of Arizona and not the other way around. I bet that lasso is great for catching Mexicans.
You don’t need to get all defensive about your state, Dude. I have no beef with Arizona. I just think your flag is horrible. You’re obviously jealous because California’s is awesome!
I’m really not being defensive, I just think it’s odd that you’d bag on a state flag, of all things. No one’s paying a whole lot of attention to them, they’re just ‘there’ …and you’ve never seen the AZ state flag until recently? Did you skip U.S. History in high school? For the record, the AZ flag was designed in 1910, two years before they became a state. I don’t know…some dude thought a flag with a star and stripes on it was a good idea, what can I tell ya. I guess can thank taking Arizona History in school for all of this useless information. But there you have it.
I don’t know how to be “jealous” of other states, that’s weird too. Do I wish we had beaches and better record stores? Of course! Do I wish we had earthquakes and great neighborhoods like Compton and Watts (I hear they shoot people there, too)? Not really. It’s tit for tat, I don’t care which state is better than the other.
1002
Some lefties may be whiny, bleeding hearts with a crap sense of humour, but at least they don’t go around killing people. The far right are a dangerous ignorant bunch and their politic is shit.
Beck, Hannity, O’Reilly, Palin are all irresponsible fuckers and are a blot on plurality. If they had a conscience they’d bury their heads in the sand and never raise them again.
I’m really not being defensive, I just think it’s odd that you’d bag on a state flag, of all things.
Because it popped up on my Facebook and I was in disbelief that it was even really the flag until I looked it up. I wasn’t bagging on Arizona. But if I see something retarded, like those flying underoos that passes for your flag, i’m gonna make fun of it.
No one’s paying a whole lot of attention to them, they’re just ‘there’ …and you’ve never seen the AZ state flag until recently?
Maybe I have. It never registered if I did see it. If I saw it I probably just thought it was some gay pride thing and didn’t think about it any further.
Did you skip U.S. History in high school? For the record, the AZ flag was designed in 1910, two years before they became a state.
Nope. I went to school. I just didn’t major in “Gay Flags 101”.
I don’t know…some dude thought a flag with a star and stripes on it was a good idea, what can I tell ya.
I don’t need you to tell me anything else. I just want you to admit that your flag is awful.
I don’t care which state is better than the other.
Good. Because mine wins.
I used to do a lot of business in Phoenix, actually. First off, it’s great because you can NOT get lost. The streets are numbers and letters. Let’s see, I’m at 23rd and A street and I’m going to 12th and C . . . I guess I’m going
11 blocks in one direction and then turning a corner for another 2 blocks.
The best thing about Phoenix though, which you guys should advertise everywhere is COOPERSTOWN. Alice Cooper’s sports bar. It’s the greatest. All the bartenders wear Alice mascara and you can order goofy crap off the menu like MEGADETH MEATLOAF!
I think you guys should get rid of that stupid flag and just fly a nice pic of Alice! Don’t fly the underoos, Man! FLY THE COOP!!!
Both sides of the political spectrum have their radicals and really it’s not that one party is less or more dangerous than the other. Simply the dude was a dick.
The crap this dude did was just hateful. Everyone should be held accountable for their own actions. To put blame on anyone for possible inspiration is just looking for scapegoats.
Absolutely.
There are people in this thread attempting to ‘tie in’ this individual with one particular political ideology and argue that because this individual can be connected to such a crowd then it’s no wonder he did what he did. Which is naive. It’s just an excuse to get on their high horses and vent their hatred of conservatives or right wingers or what ever.
This guy was possibly just hell bent on killing, no matter what side of the political fence he sat on. It made no difference. He was just a nutcase out for blood.
Lard, Grmpy, you guys minds are already made up. Good for you.
My mind is made up as far as what I’ve read about him. Mein Kampf being one of his fave books(although I’ve read that he is borderline illiterate!). Despite what you think those this is NOT a leftist book. As well as the communist Manifesto however if that’s his fave book he epically failed that test!
There has been NO leftist states or real communist societies to date. NONE! What is called “Communist” is socialist dictator states at best, Which is NOT anywhere close to left. What masquerades as “left” is just extreme right. Hitler was very right wing, but you listen to dick heads in the MSM and you’d think he was a liberal.
perhaps the quakers are the closest thing to that type of society but not really because they still have a counsel of elders!
I read that the guy is a registered independent. Also read some stuff about his HS and college friend, who IS very liberal, said when she knew him he was liberal and liked to smoke pot and was really into 2012 prophecy.
registered party isn’t always a a good indicator of where someone sides. I’m registered independent but I’m not about to pick up a gun and start killing people. Perhaps his friend doesn’t know what liberal means… You know? peace loving, tree hugging, hippie freaks, that demand the wars be stopped… those that want everyone to get along… that sounds like the party of murder, doesn’t it to you?
I’m not saying the guy’s NOT a teabagger, I’m just relaying what I read.
Tea baggers AREN’T liberals. Sorry! they are more extreme versions of Conservatives.
[reply]
liberals don’t shoot dems (or anybody for that matter)
That’s such a ridiculous statement. So who does?
[/reply]
People that think might makes right. What party does that sound like?
Wasn’t Oswald a communist?
No. Not by definition anyway!
Are you saying conservatives shoot dems?
Yes, when they don’t get their way… You see it in Palins rehtoric
You ever see shit like this from a lefty?
You ever hear people say shit like “it’s time to reload”? that’s right wing speak!
How bout “Kill Obama” as a campaign chant?
Don’t come at with me with “it’s both sides.” It’s not!
I’m glad I don’t have anything to gain or lose by this guy being portrayed as radical to either party.
Why would you? Just funny that the right is fighting really hard right now to disassociate themselves from this nut job. “he’s a nut job and we’re not responsible… This is not political he’s just crazy!!!”
BULLSHIT!! The guy that shot Regan was just crazy he had no government motivation he just wanted to impress Jody Foster. This asshole, on the other hand, had a whole list of Glenn Beckeisms. That is Political. Unless his fucking dog told him to do this or some similar type bullshit then it’s political and it’s everything you hear on the MSM. Go ahead and repeat whatever bullshit you hear on the news but it’s not the case!
Timothy Mcveigh, Politcal righty.
Ted Kazinzky- Politcal righty
BTK- (for good measure) Political righty
as a matter of fact, most of the political murder or attempted murder that has gone on has been perpetrated by those on the right.
Lefties for the most part want to be left alone and not exploited by anyone but the don’t kill when they don’t get their way!
Remember, lefties want to take our guns away! (or so the rhetoric goes!)
Some people need to learn to think for themselves.
No doubt!! Sucks when someone has to smash the repeated talking points of the MSM day after day!
Late,
grmpysmrf
THAT is the picture they’ve been talking about with the target sites? Oh, good grief! I thought it was pictures of people with sites on their foreheads or something.
Seriously, Dude. This a bit of a stretch. “Take a stand” doesn’t really mean “Go get yer guns and start shootin’ folk” in my book. Do I need some secret code book to find all the calls to arms and so forth that these politicians are shouting out?
Timothy Mcveigh, Politcal righty.
Ted Kazinzky- Politcal righty
BTK- (for good measure) Political righty
HAHAHAHA!!! Now Kaczinsky is a Right Winger? The dude lived in a crappy cabin and thought technology should be destroyed so that we’d all “get back to nature”. Yeah, he blew up some stuff, but he sounds more like one of your tree-hugging hippies to me, Grumps.
I’ve never heard him referred to as a right-winger. Most label him (or maybe he labeled himself) as a Neo-Luddite which (I tried to find something) apparently has no specific left or right connection (though it seems a more “liberal” philosophy in my estimation.
You can’t just label people as radical conservatives just because they’re bad people.
The Manson argument is a little far-fetched. If we ever find an example of Rush, or Glenn Beck, or whomever actually encouraging a specific person to kill a specific person, then yes . . . THAT is something that will be worthy of prosecution.
Bill O’reilly Urged and got the killing of an abortion doctor!
What if someone said this shit about the president? put a rifle scope over the white house? That’s a federal law!
Late,
grmpysmrf