Back when manson was filming his role in the part monster movie, i knew people who were extras and was raather curious as to what he was like on set, and apparently he wouldn’t touch any K but only did coke… or that club talk version “stayed away from katie but loved tina”
I think he’s royally fucked with that lawsuit to be honest. Pogo sues, manson countersues and later drops, and pogo is still heading straight forward with it. Really curious as to what happens, but since pogo’s side brought in new evidence, it’s postponed. I think even manson knows he’s fucked. If not, why drop your suit?
And yeah, apparently at a few of the BLB shows, Wes did say something about not being paid. In the end it all comes down to the mighty nostrils of manson.
What are these madonna/pogo lawsuits all about? Madonna as in the singer madonna or madonna wayne gacy?
Late,
grmpysmrf
I agree 110% DSOTS was a trainwreck.
A trainwreck?!?! Oh c’mon. The new Chris Cornell album is a TRAINWRECK - DSOTS is iffy in places and could have done with more bass and less treble, but a ‘trainwreck’ it never was and never will be.
Anyway…so all this new Manson fiasco…anyone know if it’s a step in the right direction or is it way too early time yet? What’s the deal?
DSOTS is iffy in places and could have done with more bass and less treble.
More Bass? I think You’re out of luck dude! That’s it! doesn’t get any more bass heavy for Ministry… That’s all of it!
Late,
grmpysmrf
DTOS really just needed a better track order, a little more treble, and some more fucking cowbell
What are these madonna/pogo lawsuits all about? Madonna as in the singer madonna or madonna wayne gacy?
Late,
grmpysmrf
Madonna Wayne “Pogo” Gacy is suing Manson. Something about not getting the money he was supposed to in his deal as one of the original members of the Marilyn Manson band.
[reply]
What are these madonna/pogo lawsuits all about? Madonna as in the singer madonna or madonna wayne gacy?
Late,
grmpysmrf
Madonna Wayne “Pogo” Gacy is suing Manson. Something about not getting the money he was supposed to in his deal as one of the original members of the Marilyn Manson band.[/reply]
So pogo’s still suing for 10m, and I think it looks pretty good for him.
Basically all of the money the band had made was put together and manson “supposedly” dipped in and spent it all on drugs and nazi toys for his home decor. So basically, like Wes, he didn’t get paid for several years. Even claims to have had to work a dayjob while manson went shopping. Manson then tried to countersue for breach of contract for Pogo not contributing, or touring for the last album, which he eventually dropped.
Even claims to have had to work a dayjob while manson went shopping.
any idea what his day job was? Just cause even in his book manson says pogo was a certified genius, and i can’t imagine him just like, selling furnature or whatever…
Many of the “interpretations” of the lawsuit in this thread are amusing to say the least.
First of all, all of the members of the band except for Manson (who was supported by his parents) had day jobs up until the success of “Sweat Dreams”. They were operating in the red, desperate for a hit.
The lawsuit hinges on a partnership agreement which was signed by all members of the band lineup that recorded ‘Portrait of an American Family’. That would mean:
Marilyn Manson
Daisy Berkowitz
Madonna Wayne Gacy
Gidget Gein
Sara Lee Lucas
They each got a certain percent of all band earnings, Manson getting the most. In return they had to participate in selling band merchandise, concerts, video shoots, recording etc.
What happened was that all other members had to agree to terminate a member of the band. So the original members were systematically eliminated over the years for various reasons leaving only Madonna Wayne Gacy aka Pogo as the sole partner with Manson. Everyone who joined the band after that agreement was contracted as an employee and was working for a salary.
That’s why he thinks he’s owed 10 million dollars.
Pogo claims he never worried about the funds, always assuming they were collecting in a bank account for him, and that he used a band credit card to get by all those years. Then, he had an undisclosed medical issue which could affect his ability to play for the band and the credit card was cut off so he couldn’t seak treatment.
He tried to contact Manson and the band’s attorneys but they both kept saying “call the other guy” and he was being led around in circles. Then during the recording of ‘EAT ME, DRINK ME’, Pogo showed up at the band’s storage facility with friends to retrieve his gear which had been there since the performance of Jay Leno of “This is Halloween”. That was the last time he saw Manson and Manson wouldn’t talk to him. The gear was locked and they said he didn’t have access to it. At that point he went to a lawyer to initiate this lawsuit.
Pogo did not record anything on ‘EAT ME, DRINK ME’ and claims he didn’t know it was being recorded. Manson, meanwhile, claims that Pogo not only violated the band agreement by not showing up for recordings when he was asked repeatedly for the ‘EAT ME, DRINK ME’ sessions/photo shoot/music video for “Heart-Shaped Glasses”, but that the agreement itself was dissolved in 1996 during ‘Antichrist Superstar’ when Manson became the clear leader and focal point of the band.
Pogo’s attorneys had been fighting for all of these alleged agreements this whole time and only got ahold of them recently, which is why they tried to postpone the trial. The fact that Manson dropped his countersuit shows more that he is confident than anything. He’s basically saying there is no point with a countersuit because he is confident Pogo will lose the initial lawsuit and Pogo is broke so Manson won’t win anything either way. The countersuit would just cost Manson money to file. Pogo couldn’t even afford a lawyer, the dude is doing it for free because Pogo registered that he was unable to pay.
I don’t really know what side I’m on here, but I think Manson will win this. And Pogo is going to be fucked royally. Either way, his contributions to the band were not worth $10 million…
People usually ask for some ridiculous sum in lawsuits, knowing that the money they actually get will be significantly less.
The lawsuit hinges on a partnership agreement which was signed by all members of the band lineup that recorded ‘Portrait of an American Family’. That would mean:
Marilyn Manson
Daisy Berkowitz
Madonna Wayne Gacy
Gidget Gein
Sara Lee Lucas
A small detail which I believe is somewhat relevant: from what I’ve read about the trial the original line-up was technically with “Mr. Manson,” and the band name itself was Marilyn Manson. I remember back when Portrait came out and my friends were specific about telling me that the “Marilyn Manson” was a band and the lead singer was Mr. Manson. I was always confused as to when that stopped.
They only renamed it to Marilyn Manson before they got signed. So while they signed the contract and such, they were possibly still Manson and the Spooky Kids. Only reason they changed it was to get signed, if I remember correctly. But I dunno. When Daisy left, and sued, they settled. Pogo’s suing, and from the stuff i’ve read, I think he has a good shot, or they’ll settle. I don’t think you can consider Pogo’s lack of contribution to EMDM a breach, but I dunno.
And I think 10m is more than reasonable when counting the success of Antichrist Superstar and Mechanical Animals. Money had to have been pouring in around that time. So counting from 94 to 2003-2005? I’d probably go for more. But I was raised by a wild pack of jews, so what do I know?
Well looking at track records alone, manson seems to have dicked over every past member starting with zsa zsa speck and going right up to wes and pogo. Twiggy seemed to be the only exception really.
maybe brian just decided to pull an axl. got some clause in the contract that madonna could be fired for lack of contribution and then decided that he was going to abuse a situation and lock him out of a recording session, giving him contractual ability to fire him and claim complete ownership of all that is manson
People who call him Brian are always amusing… Seriously, give it up.
But yes it looks like basically what you’re saying. Manson systematically dicked the original members out of the contract so he could have sole ownership and profits. It’s beyond the point of settling out of court, so it will be interesting to see what happens.
I wonder if Pogo refused to settle for whatever Manson offered him, or if Manson actually declined to make an offer thinking he would win it all in court. If it’s the former, then kudos to Pogo for going all the way with it. If it’s the ladder then I’m guessing Pogo is fucked because Manson has documents that Pogo’s lawyers didn’t know about until the last minute.
Thought it was the other way around with the last Minute deal. Thought that was Pogo’s deal.
Well looking at track records alone, manson seems to have dicked over every past member starting with zsa zsa speck and going right up to wes and pogo. Twiggy seemed to be the only exception really.
maybe brian just decided to pull an axl. got some clause in the contract that madonna could be fired for lack of contribution and then decided that he was going to abuse a situation and lock him out of a recording session, giving him contractual ability to fire him and claim complete ownership of all that is manson
Wasn’t Zsa Zsa only in the band for a fortnight or something… I cant remember what the story with Bundy was, but I’m glad Daisy replaced him anyway.
Gidget probably got dicked out unfairly - due to “Drug problems”. Now look at MM. eh, anyway RIP Gidget.
It looks like the CD is being released in the US on May 19th (which happens to be my birthday!)
Also, here is an update on the Pogo vs Manson court case from some dork on the Manson forum who purchased the trial papers:
"UPDATE: I have purchased 30 pages of documents from the L.A. Superior Court to date, relating to Bier v. Warner, et al - Case No. BC375265. I will bullet-point my findings in intervals for you all, beginning with this reply. Oh, and this is the last time I will quote myself–just wanted to tie in the latest case summaries.
-Bier is suing Marilyn Manson Films, Warner’s personal film/tv shingle, which since its June 2006 formation, has made no money to date. (Writer’s Strike, etc.)
-Bier is suing all the band’s former managers, including Ciulla Mngmt. & his co. Jimmy’s Touring, Grodsky & Olecki, Weise & Assc, and S & L & Co. that he or the band retained services between '93-'07.
-Bier is suing Satan’s Bakesale, which is essentially the independent label or promo company associated with Bier and Manson in the Spooky Kids/Pre-Nothing Records era.
-Since someone asked, Sickle of Desolation is Beir’s own publishing entity he received band royalties and compensation monies through.
-Evidence submitted for the trial relating to partnership, settlement, and other agreements mentioning Bier (alleged, valid, executed, invalid, expired, falsified, etc.) include ones dated: 12/16/93, 6/23/94 (Satan’s Bakesale & Winterland Prod. Agreement), 3/31/96 (as a Manson/Sickle of Desolation Publishing Agreement), Unknown 1997 (draft employment agreement between Bier and MMRI), 1/24/97 (musical recording artist borrowing agreement between PPNP Prod. Inc., MM Recording Inc., and Nothing Records w/ Warner, Bier, Wilson, White, and Linton listed as “p/k/a/ Marilyn Manson”), Unknown 1998, 6/24/98 (Not necessarily effective on that date though), 6/30/08 (settlement agreement between Manson “entities” and Timothy Michael Linton a/k/a Tim Skold), 9/1/98 (between MM Records & Nothing Ltd.), 10/29/98 (actually a mutual release and settlement agreement between Manson and Bier), 6/30/98 (an amendment to original Nothing Records & Marilyn Manson agreement, signed in 10/93, that terminates said contract), 10/4/99 (referred to as original marilyn manson partnership agreement), 3/7/07 (termination of services to Bier from management & MMRI), 4/10/07 (final pay-check to Bier)
-Other evidence submitted of interest: Bier’s phone records, emails between all attorneys and managers, income tax statements for Warner and Bier dating back over a decade, ledgers of royalty payments dating back several years, multiple settlement agreements between Warner/Bier/MMRI and Putesky, Streithorst, and Stewart–including a check to the late Bradley Stewart for $75,059.39 on 4/22/98, worker’s compensation records for Bier over the course of intermittent periods, Bier’s home mortgage application and deed of trust from FLorida property in 2004, June email from Warner to management relating to supporting Bier while off tour, August 2006 notification of retained services letter by Bier’s newly hired attorneys, Sept 2006 email where Bier’s lawyers inquire about an alleged partnership agreement, multiple un-paid AT&T and utility bills received by Bier in late 2006 to early 2007, hiring contract for Linton in late March 2007…
I am sure there is more, I’ll weed through the documents again later and try to get more details posted. Hopefully, you can see how each party is painting their side of the story. I know how I would argue each side of the case.
A lot of the outcome for Manson is going to rely on the effective demonstration of a clear recognition and complete acceptance of the valuable, subsequent band agreements and settlements that were signed in the mid- to late-nineties as not only acknowledgment of dissolution of prior held agreements and entities; but that there were years of band member compensation meetings held, during which Bier never expressed he was owed royalty ,commission, or other monies because he knew he was not entitled to any. Furthermore, it must be argued that Bier is either not entitled to a settlement package as most other former band members appear to have been, or that he did not allow MMRI sufficient time to offer one, but a fair and timely offer was the intention of MMRI and Ciulla Mngmt. Lastly, most importantly, the accounting for all the agreed upon revenue and income disbursements must balance out. It is hard to argue lapsed or irregular payments-especially when there are notations or emails acknowledging the peculiarities.
P.S.
What is also interesting is that there is only a brief period of band credit card statements that has been entered as evidence—no receipts or sales contracts by Warner. This short, AmEx billing period in 2006 is when Warner allegedly spent millions of band monies on a home, wedding, drugs, etc. Now while some timing may not be off, technically credit is not band revenue-- which inherently discredits Bier’s main argument–not to mention you don’t buy drugs, mummies, or a home with a credit card.
I’ll let you know more as I see more images of exactly what certain documents contain.
Hope you enjoyed."
Well here are the songs that have surfaced so far. Supposedly all but “We’re From America” (which is available for legal download as an mp3 from the new marilynmanson.com) are in demo stage because the final mixes have not leaked yet. I’m curious to hear all but Peligro’s thoughts on these!
The Wow
Box.Net: http://www.box.net/shared/v1qetlizna
RS.Com: http://rapidshare.com/files/213300864/MM_THEOTL_TW.rar
Arma-God Damn-Mother Fuckin’-Geddon
Box.Net: http://www.box.net/shared/vu2iorqhii
RS.Com: http://rapidshare.com/files/213572788/MM_THEOFL_AGDMFG.rar
We’re From America
Box.Net: http://www.box.net/shared/m39zjkdi91
RS.Com: http://rapidshare.com/files/214373015/MMWAA.rar
Four Rusted Horses
Box.Net: http://www.box.net/shared/2rnhze4ee2
RS.Com: http://rapidshare.com/files/214564036/MM4RH.rar
i didn’t like it. sounds kinda meh. he’ll never top portrait (it’s fun), acs (really awesome heavy cd) and mechanical (also great stuff) anyway.
it did reminded me however to tab all the bass from Holy Wood album. which i did!
Yeah I think ‘Holy Wood’ was really the last great one from the band (AWESOME bass lines on that album!). The revolving door membership has certainly been a problem I think musically.