Controversial Opinions

[reply] a bunch of butthurt rednecks.

This should certainly pour some fuel on the fire of the controversial opinions thread.

An honest question for everyone here. What, to you, is UNIQUELY distasteful or evil about rednecks? Is it…

…the fervent religiosity?
…the hatred of education?
…the tendency to solely ‘look out for their own?’
…the belief that guns and / or raw violence can solve most social problems?
…the likelihood that they’ll have children that they aren’t prepared to raise?
…the inability to appreciate subtlety in art and culture?
…the inclination towards life-destroying recreational chemicals?

If you answered even one of those in the affirmative, well, congratulations, you’ve just identified a salient characteristic of several other major ethnic groups in the U.S. If you had told me not to move to a U.S. city because too many people live there with these characteristics - and you didn’t name the dominant racial group in that city - you could just as easily be describing Chicago as someplace in Appalachia.

I’d like to hear from some other board members why, again, the redneck deserves to be probably one of the last safe targets for wall-to-wall ridicule both in this country and elsewhere (redneck jokes and small dick jokes have to be the last two pieces of standup comic material that you’re guaranteed to not get any shit about.)

I’ll share my theories on this eventually, but for now, let me just say that I’m not going to bat “for” rednecks so much as I am for the sake of ideological consistency. Put simply, if you despise a trait or set of traits that you identify with the ‘low class’ element of a certain race, then you’d better be prepared to explain why they and only they are worthy of criticism. I have a knee-jerk aversion to scapegoating, no matter who it is.[/reply]

Definitely the first 3! Their tendency to “look after their own” is mainly fueled by xenophobia, I don’t feel that’s a characterisitc major ethnic groups have, me being hispanic never really noticed that kind of trait among my family.

We all look out for our own in a sense of in our immediate family, not neccesarily race.

I don’t like “rednecks” because they revel in their ignorance. Ignorance isn’t something to be proud of nor celebrated.

[reply]I don’t hate all poor people. Just the ones with socialist ideologies. [/quote]
[rolleyes]

You do realise that the “mega wealthy” create the bulk of the employment in the western world

and take the bulk of the wealth for not doing a fucking thing. “I gave you a job now gimmie your paycheck.” Sounds fair to me.

and that the taxes they pay (and don’t give me any lame assed shit about how the rich DON’T pay tax, you Nancy Boy) provides a great deal of the revenue needed for the “essential social services” you constantly harp on about.

Don’t be such a right wing parrot. The rich old man you mention later on in your post came right out and said his cleaning lady pays a shit ton more taxes than he does. Go fuck yourself little Mr. misinformed.

Stop being so divisive.

If you were an Australian you’d most likely vote Labor. And I’d most likely want to place a “kick me” sign on yr back.

Hardly, placing a sign would require effort on your part. The rich are allergic to their own labor. without someone else’s labor the rich aren’t rich let alone “working.”

Commie.

Fascist.

That’s socialism, Grmpy. That’s fucking socialism right there. The government “capping” everybody’s pay?!?!?!Read yr history books, Biffo.

No it’s not.
Governments never “capped” anyone’s wages. They took their entire wages under the socialist regimes. Not the same thing as I’m proposing

Show me WHERE this kind of shit-heel ideology has worked before to the general well being of the state.

Sweden.
Now run along before I spank your little ass in front of everyone again.

[:)]

Oh by the way. The software on the computer you are using RIGHT now - it was made by a company headed by Bill Gates. A rich man who started his company from scratch.

yeah, “from scratch,” [:|] Run with that if it makes you feel good.

A man who gives more to charity than any other person on earth - with the possible exception of Warren Buffet: another…wait for it…RICH MAN.

Apparently you missed my *. or just ignored it on purpose.

I don’t like “rednecks” because they revel in their ignorance. Ignorance isn’t something to be proud of nor celebrated.

Absolutely. No argument there. But again, my question was whether or not any of the items on the ‘bad qualities’ list could be proven as “exclusive” to rednecks. Or, if not exclusive, then is there a demonstrably higher incidence of these traits among rednecks than among other people.

With every passing generation, there seems to be a new scapegoat that the Powers that Be tell us is dangerous when they are in fact close to powerless in terms of social organization. In 1964 it was poor and powerless blacks, in 2014 it’s poor and powerless white trash. Who knows who it’ll be 20 years from now.

It still feels weird to even be defending people who would call me a Euro-trash homo within seconds of meeting me, and maybe greet me with a bottle launched at my head. Yet I’m convinced that these people are just the latest in a series of distractions brought to us by those who want us to forget about the much more serious harm that they can do to us ecologically, economically, and so on.

I don’t advocate adopting a more redneck-friendly lifestyle so much as I advocate spending more time on ridiculing more important things, like our power-addicted and warmongering ruling class.

Rich people stealing is not the same as poor people stealing. Rich people are already taken care of and are comfortable by the standard presented here in the US.

Stealing is stealing you dolt. And don’t try and put any fancy pants spin on this. The penalties for stealing should be decided with regards to the specifics of each individual case.

Do you honestly believe there should be a law for the rich and a law for the poor?

If a “poor” person steals, then their method of stealing will most likely involve violence and the potential loss of life - ie they’re probably going to use a weapon of some sort. The penalty for sticking a gun in one’s face and demanding to hand over the goods or risk having one’s brains decorating the back wall is not comparable to me “conning” you out of your savings by advising you to invest in a scheme I have started.

Argue all you like but it just isn’t.

I fully believe we need a maximum wage in this country and anything over needs to go back to the people in the form of Taxes. Just think of all of the programs that could come back to the schools (shop classes, arts classes, cultural classes, clubs etc) and communities if that money was dispersed back to the communities.

Socialism seeks to promote equality among people by providing them with any number of social social benefits. Examples of benefits that individuals in a socialist society are provided are educational, health care, and care for the elderly and the vulnerable. Socialism means paying for things without necessarily expecting a financial return, just for the greater good. One of the pros of socialism is that it seems to be a way of achieving slow, but peaceful, progress. That is, at least, a goal of socialism.

HOWEVER…

Socialism is economically inefficient as it does not reward entrepreneurs. Instead of rewarding entrepreneurs for creating wealth, it punishes them by making them pay higher taxes. Socialism can actually lower the living standards of all by not rewarding work and by making public assistance available to more than the neediest.

ie. "Hey great work developing that new technology or that new vaccine. Took you ten years, huh?!?! Oh, you want to reap the benefits of your hard work?? You evil, greedy, capitalist pig!! The government will take over from here thanks. We’ll see that technology or that vaccine goes where it belongs and that the people receive their just share. Now fuck off back to the lab and your $13 / hour job.

There is something wrong with you if you think the only way to measure your success is by screwing over the less fortunate than you are.

This goes for any member of society be they rich or be they poor.

Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that the only way to get rich these days is to “screw people over”? If so you are quite the warped, pin-headed individual I always hoped you weren’t.

When was the last time you were paid by a poor person??

The working classes are noble and true and the successful entrepreneurs are scum bag pigs worthy of death??!?!

Boy you need a lesson in history. We’ve heard that shit before haven’t we?

Do you honestly believe there should be a law for the rich and a law for the poor?

Don’t do irony, do you?

But again, my question was whether or not any of the items on the ‘bad qualities’ list could be proven as “exclusive” to rednecks. Or, if not exclusive, then is there a demonstrably higher incidence of these traits among rednecks than among other people.

…the fervent religiosity?
…the hatred of education?
…the tendency to solely ‘look out for their own?’
…the belief that guns and / or raw violence can solve most social problems?
…the likelihood that they’ll have children that they aren’t prepared to raise?
…the inability to appreciate subtlety in art and culture?
…the inclination towards life-destroying recreational chemicals?

No. Certainly those first 4 could easily be attributed to militant muslims too.

They are not “redneck” exclusive.

That’s socialism, Grmpy. That’s fucking socialism right there. The government “capping” everybody’s pay?!?!?!Read yr history books, Biffo. Show me WHERE this kind of shit-heel ideology has worked before to the general well being of the state.

The government caps people’s pay by adding economic migrants to your state who will work for the bare minimum

and before you start about it being leftist governments that ushered that sort of thing in - read your history

conservative/right governments sell off national assets, pimp the country out to light industry, flood country with economic migrants who work for less, company has to pay less, country is a good place to do business

This is the doing of Neo-Liberals… people so scared of Communism that they turn their own countries into shitholes where business is more important than people

I appreciate & share your enmity for Communism but I think you are going too far the other way… does it sound outrageous to you that excess in either direction would be a bad thing?

By the way I am a middle-class landowner who grew up very poor in the inner cities… I know the value of a day’s work and have never come to expect something for nothing. But I know that if socialised initiatives hadn’t sent me to school, I’d probably still be in a densely populated poor area, either committing crime or claiming welfare

We mustn’t give people something for nothing and create a culture of entitlement, but at the same time social programs are not a black hole to chuck money down - and the idea that hard work alone will give social mobility is a myth. I’m guessing you have never been poor?

Either that or Australia is very very different to the countries I’ve lived in

Stealing is stealing you dolt.

Of course it is which is why you wrote…

The penalties for stealing should be decided with regards to the specifics of each individual case.

Moron!

Do you honestly believe there should be a law for the rich and a law for the poor?

Do you honestly believe that there already isn’t? perfect example, vagrancy. Who is more likely to need to sleep under a bridge? A rich man or a poor man? How come when OJ is brought up on double murder charges the death penalty is taken off the table before he even steps into court? How come when the dupont heir kills (premeditated)a man (olympic wrestler) because the wrestler won’t be his boyfriend the death penalty isn’t even considered? Any non rich person would be facing the death penalty. How come when some non rich person steals from 7/11 Law enforcement break down his door for 300 dollars but Bernie Madoff or the Tyco boys steal a billion each they arrange a meeting to “turn themselves in?”

You live in your fuckin bubble and think the wealthy are oh so put upon but what it comes down to is you don’t have the first fuckin clue because you are what you hate. you live at home and are bill free and don’t have a fuckin job because it’s inconvenient to your life style. you do nothing for society but leech, just because don’t actively take as much as others means nothing when you don’t do anything to help make it better. you simply exist. Way to go “job creator”

If a “poor” person steals, then their method of stealing will most likely involve violence and the potential loss of life - ie they’re probably going to use a weapon of some sort.

you’re right because the threat of violence from the presence of a weapon Always does way more damage than a mouse on a keyboard and/or a stock report. yeah, why a shove a gun in someones face when you can get them to shove one in their own mouth? genius.

The penalty for sticking a gun in one’s face and demanding to hand over the goods or risk having one’s brains decorating the back wall is not comparable to me “conning” you out of your savings by advising you to invest in a scheme I have started.

Completely comparable. especially since your scheme DOES way more damage than the threat of violence.

Argue all you like but it just isn’t.

Oh of course the pseudo intellectual that is Peligro has spoken. Get a job, ass.

Socialism seeks to promote equality among people by providing them with any number of social social benefits. Examples of benefits that individuals in a socialist society are provided are educational, health care, and care for the elderly and the vulnerable. Socialism means paying for things without necessarily expecting a financial return, just for the greater good. One of the pros of socialism is that it seems to be a way of achieving slow, but peaceful, progress. That is, at least, a goal of socialism.

I don’t need a lecture in socialism I know what it is and what I’m proposing is not the same. I have an actual education not a TeeVee opinion like yourself. All your right wing heroes pine to go back to the prosperity of the 50’s when everything was great and there was plenty of money. What they don’t tell you is that prosperity came with a 70% tax bracket to the upper 1%. Didn’t know that did you? of course you didn’t cause your a little robot with no sense of history or social identity who lives without an original thought in world. You’re no better than a goddamn parrot.

HOWEVER…

Socialism is economically inefficient as it does not reward entrepreneurs. Instead of rewarding entrepreneurs for creating wealth, it punishes them by making them pay higher taxes. Socialism can actually lower the living standards of all by not rewarding work and by making public assistance available to more than the neediest.

Nobody is talking about punishing anybody it’s capping the “rewards.” if you could see past the “liberal media” your so fuckin indoctrinated into perhaps you would have a thought of your own. Moron!

ie. "Hey great work developing that new technology or that new vaccine. Took you ten years, huh?!?! Oh, you want to reap the benefits of your hard work?? You evil, greedy, capitalist pig!! The government will take over from here thanks. We’ll see that technology or that vaccine goes where it belongs and that the people receive their just share. Now fuck off back to the lab and your $13 / hour job.

Not even close Mr. slippery slope. Please learn something before you spout off at the keyboard with your standard brainwash. You really haven’t said anything that the TeeVee doesn’t scream at everyone everyday. How profound.

This goes for any member of society be they rich or be they poor.

Not for everyone, Moron.

Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that the only way to get rich these days is to “screw people over”? If so you are quite the warped, pin-headed individual I always hoped you weren’t.

Ever heard behind every great fortune is a great crime? You are constantly the retard that I wished you weren’t.

When was the last time you were paid by a poor person??

When was the last time a rich person paid their work force what they were worth?

The working classes are noble and true and the successful entrepreneurs are scum bag pigs worthy of death??!?!

NO thick head!! just the ones that take advantage.

[quote]Boy you need a lesson in history. We’ve heard that shit before haven’t we?[/reply]
No you haven’t because you never know what you are talking about. you set up strawman after strawman an come along with a light breeze to knock them over and show how supreme you are when you have no clue the amount of logical fallacies that come tumbling out of that warbled jelly bean that passes for your brain.
Get a clue you dumb fuck and understand what’s been written rather than just jumping to conclusions on what you think you know.

[reply]
That’s socialism, Grmpy. That’s fucking socialism right there. The government “capping” everybody’s pay?!?!?!Read yr history books, Biffo. Show me WHERE this kind of shit-heel ideology has worked before to the general well being of the state.

The government caps people’s pay by adding economic migrants to your state who will work for the bare minimum

and before you start about it being leftist governments that ushered that sort of thing in - read your history

conservative/right governments sell off national assets, pimp the country out to light industry, flood country with economic migrants who work for less, company has to pay less, country is a good place to do business

This is the doing of Neo-Liberals… people so scared of Communism that they turn their own countries into shitholes where business is more important than people

I appreciate & share your enmity for Communism but I think you are going too far the other way… does it sound outrageous to you that excess in either direction would be a bad thing?

By the way I am a middle-class landowner who grew up very poor in the inner cities… I know the value of a day’s work and have never come to expect something for nothing. But I know that if socialised initiatives hadn’t sent me to school, I’d probably still be in a densely populated poor area, either committing crime or claiming welfare

We mustn’t give people something for nothing and create a culture of entitlement, but at the same time social programs are not a black hole to chuck money down - and the idea that hard work alone will give social mobility is a myth. I’m guessing you have never been poor?

Either that or Australia is very very different to the countries I’ve lived in[/reply]
Now you’ve done it. You haven’t endorsed everything that Peligro has said. now you’re a dirty hippie too.

Yes - Commie style confiscation of wealth is not only morally wrong, but unsustainable, as both normal people and big business will start to move against you - and if BOTH of those entities are against you, you’re fucked.

I think billionaires should be given even more incentives to stash their cash in the City of London (as in the semi autonomous historic square mile core of London which is run by the City of London corporation, has it’s own laws to aid financial services), but that money should then be (very cautiously) invested in local (UK) infrastructure

It already is to a certain degree, but given the insane amount of money going through the place (more than wall street), can’t help but think somebody is creaming off something we all helped build with our previously nationalised banks (this is the other thing, conservatives accuse socialists of thievery and yet have no problem selling off nationalised assets like coal, tin, steel, railways, telecoms, banks etc)

I find an amazing aesthetic beauty in GG Allin, his ‘art’ (musical and otherwise), and his life.

Also, I think Pantera was pretty awesome . . . back when they were “glam” (it all turned to crap after Phil joined).

What there needs to be is a huge incentive for people not to hoard money. They get to make all they want but they need to pump it back into the economy in some way or another. At least allow people to have free choice because the government would just spend it on military or parks for illegal Mexican lesbians with AIDs.

Well said. Very well said.
I’m not suggesting people can’t be billionaires, they could. What I’m suggesting would be in a given year no one person can make more than say 100 million dollars. There will always be people that need to be at the top, so there is the drive that keeps those people going. but this wealth addiction bullshit would be over.

There will always be class divisions, and people can save their money so that the next year they have 200 million, I’m talking about capping wages NOT raiding banking accounts, but the days of “I made 750 million dollars this year,” would be over.

I find an amazing aesthetic beauty in GG Allin, his ‘art’ (musical and otherwise), and his life.

Hahaha I was JUST thinking about this the other day…like, what could I bring up on the ‘opinions’ thread that would be enough of a diversion to temporarily keep Peligro and Grmpy from killing each other. But of course - defend Jesus Christ Allin himself!

There are some aspects of the GG presentation that I can get behind. Mainly, I respect the fact that he forced many other artists and musicians to re-evaluate their ideas of “extreme.” The whole “I’m going to blow up the concert venue on Halloween of 19XX” angle, I think, seeded some doubt in the minds of the most big-time “extremists”, even at the same time they were making fun of him.

His over-estimation of his power to foment a “rock 'n roll revolution” was a little tragic, though. Musically he was never that exceptional, any extra impressions I got out of his music came from the fact that knowledge of his personality and antics preceded my actually hearing the music.

Also, I think Pantera was pretty awesome . . . back when they were “glam” (it all turned to crap after Phil joined).

“Metal Magic!” FUCKIN’ A, dude!!! Seriously, Pantera were fucking hilarious back then, and therefore genuinely entertaining.

Islam as a religion should be outlawed. Or at the very least scaled down.

Why? I assume because of Fundamentalist Islam’s violence. I won’t repeat what’s obvious with Christianity’s bloody history but I will weigh in with since 9/11 there has been a lot more media attention on Islam and as such a lot more awareness with it’s presence in society. Islam has always had a very large Islamic population that never really got much bother until after 9/11 regardless of the fact Islamic Extremist factions had been incredibly formidable for decades beforehand. Personally I wished all religions would became insanely moderate and except that they are all interesting stories at best. It’s a real shame when these ancient beliefs impact peoples lives in extremely negative ways…obviously all of these religions also have major positive impacts on people in their opinion too so what do you do?

The Australian Aboriginal as a collective is lazy and uses “racism” as a scapegoat to detract from the failings inherent in its culture and ideology.

The whole idea of “working” is a western society notion where you spend a lot of time away from your family in order to feed your family, keep a roof over their head and make other people rather wealthy. Now before the British came to Australia and completely stole, raped and pillaged their land & culture their way of living was very simple…they were with their people 100% of the time and instead of “working” they hunted for food etc…the Aboriginal’s aren’t good at the western way of living…in fact it’s pretty obvious they’re very poor at it. At the end of the day the British forced their way of life on a culture after totally destroying that culture for the most part first. When the Aboriginals failed the western way of life they were ridiculed and hated…this continues to this day.

My unpopular opinion is Australia should house all Aboriginal peoples in urban areas and pay them at the very least $1000 a week. I believe they shouldn’t have to work as it’s not part of their culture. Due to their treatment over the last couple of hundred years this is at the very least OWED to them. If they continue to fail with this there should be the choice of living their original way of life outback or in the bush. They should have national parks put aside for them if they choose to live off the land and they should have government appointed Aboriginal leaders etc that run training “workshops” to teach urban Aborigines how to lead a fruitful life off the land away from the western way of life. If they also fail at that then I really don’t know what would be best.

Taboos regarding children and nudity in art/culture should be somewhat alleviated.

I have no idea why you would have this opinion or be troubled by this “taboo”?

I guess my unpopular opinions are limited to thinking underground music for the most part is much more enjoyable than stuff that sells millions and that movies that cost millions tend to suck.

More fun questions for Grmpy and Peligro:

just out of curiosity, what’s your opinion on the idea of a “barter economy”?

Do you think we could have a productive, or at least stable, society if money didn’t exist at all, and people merely made arrangements with each other to exchange a certain quantity of one good / service for something of comparable value (with those values being decided by the trading partners themselves, and not a central authority)?

This ought to be really controversial…

Peligro, I’m sorry for some of the things I wrote in my last post to you.

I wrote it late last night (about 2am) when I was tired as hell and completely irritated with what I consider standard right wing talking points points that didn’t really have anything to do with what I was suggesting.

Obviously many people can come along and poke holes in what I suggest because I don’t have all the angles covered nor do I want to or are prepared to rewrite my governments foundation.

My overall point is simply that the divide in my country is starting to resemble a third world nation and something should/needs to be done to discourage the outright exploitation of the desperate workers here in the US.

It’s not because the work force is lazy here, or really anywhere (as the right would have you believe). It’s because the powers that be know that they can underpay the workers and continue to amass ridiculous amounts of resources/wealth while their workers gain absolutely no ground.

My points still stand but I could have done it more tactfully.

your pal,
grmpysmrf

If you think abortion should be outlawed because “adoption is an option” put your money where your mouth is and go and adopt a kid or ten… yeah, didn’t think so. There are simply not enough foster or adoptive homes for all the unwanted kids out there that DO get born, and seriously, think of the situations these people having abortions are in, and ask yourself if you would rather want to give them the opportunity to end the problem entirely with an abortion, make the problem someone else’s by surrendering the child for adoption, or have them raise that child themselves at a disadvantage to probably grow up to be fuck ups like their parents (since that seems to be your attitude towards them). Seems like option A is the winner to me.

But what do I know, I’m a die hard liberal who doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the death penalty. Totally ambivalent. On one hand you have the possibility of an innocent person being murdered by the state (although if you’re not out fucking around doing bad shit, it’s fairly unlikely you’d be swept up into such a situation), and on the other hand you have people that can’t be trusted to not murder and rape given the chance who end up sucking up millions of tax dollars being fed and housed. Kind of a wash in my opinion, and until we have mind readers or time travel to be absolutely sure of what happened, there is zero we can do to remedy one problem while steering clear of the other, so I just can’t be arsed to get all up in arms about it.

Seems to me the only thing to do about either is to fight the root causes of unwanted pregnancies and crime, which has everything to do with education and economic justice. Treat the disease, not the symptoms. Just saying.

I love the idea of GG Allin and how far he went when onstage… shitty person but I do get a bit of a kick seeing someone cut loose so much

I genuinely believe “Bite it you scum” is one of the best punk rock songs ever

also that movie (“hated”?) has the perfect late night low budget cult atmosphere and is one of the all time best rock documentaries (then he went and did “road trip” - weird)

More fun questions for Grmpy and Peligro:

just out of curiosity, what’s your opinion on the idea of a “barter economy”?

Do you think we could have a productive, or at least stable, society if money didn’t exist at all, and people merely made arrangements with each other to exchange a certain quantity of one good / service for something of comparable value (with those values being decided by the trading partners themselves, and not a central authority)?

never really thought about it. I suppose bartering would be fine but my quick opinion says I don’t think a nation of 300 million could survive on bartering alone. Although I do think it should be able to used as legal currency but then again nobody has figured out a way to measure it/ tax it so it would remain a problem.