i ordered mine three days ago. can’t wait.
ps - i also ordered the steve martin book “Born Standing Up: A Comic’s Life”. love the old steve martin stuff.
Like it or not he has had much more cultural relevance and mainstream impact on society than any other Industrial Rock group.
Wouldn’t that actually be Nine Inch Nails?
1002
i ordered mine three days ago. can’t wait.
ps - i also ordered the steve martin book “Born Standing Up: A Comic’s Life”. love the old steve martin stuff.
that book is great. you won’t be let down - keep in mind though, it’s only about before he got famous. still entertaining.
Howard Stern was talking about that Steve Martin book about a week ago, saying how good it was. Sounds like a must-read. Big fan of Steve (well, up through L.A. Story).
1002
blah blah Manson hyperbole.
I just find it sad when otherwise intelligent people write Manson off completely. He is a complete fucking rock star.
I enjoy Manson more than I probably should. Whatever, it’s catchy, and I agree with you on a lot of points. However, it’s really hard to argue that he’s a “complete fucking rockstar” who shouldn’t be written off when this is what his performances look like these days:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn0r9ky4myA
after i read chris connelly’s book(coming in the snailmail,apparently)i’ll give a full report.
and i did not speak to him today.
really.
[reply]blah blah Manson hyperbole.
I just find it sad when otherwise intelligent people write Manson off completely. He is a complete fucking rock star.
I enjoy Manson more than I probably should. Whatever, it’s catchy, and I agree with you on a lot of points. However, it’s really hard to argue that he’s a “complete fucking rockstar” who shouldn’t be written off when this is what his performances look like these days:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn0r9ky4myA[/reply]
I prefer this Manson performance:
I don’t think either Ministry or Jesu have ever gone for “sex appeal” (well maybe on “With Sympathy” at times). Saying Manson’s better cuz he packs more sex appeal into his music is like saying Manson’s better because he wears more make-up than Ministry or Jesu, it’s a non-sequitor.
But that wasn’t my argument. As I said, I like Ministry and Jesu and hold them on equal regard with Manson. What I meant is that Manson provides a different side of the spectrum aesthetically that those bands don’t deal with.
This isn’t an argument of “X is better than Y”. I just wanted to say that they are all interesting artists and should be appreciated for their unique qualities in turn.
I prefer this Manson performance:
http://www.youtube.com/v/rxrc88w6GL8
FUCK YES!! See this is why he fuckin rocks.
“No amount of headscratching prog rock/ post rock / shoe gazer almalgamy can match the raw appeal ad sexuality of a rock song like " The Dope Show”.
!?!
Think god I wasn’t drinking my beer when I read that line.
Could’ve been messy.
Oh get over yourself. I am into all kinds of music and am heavily versed in the underground. Don’t write my statement off as though I am some lowbrow rock fan. My Manson fandom is intellectually based and I am prepared to defend him as a cultural icon until I’m blue in the face.
That being said, I’d prefer his new album ‘Eat Me, Drink Me’ to Al’s drunken Bush rants and paint-by-numbers thrash riffs of this current incarnation any day.
[reply]Like it or not he has had much more cultural relevance and mainstream impact on society than any other Industrial Rock group.
Wouldn’t that actually be Nine Inch Nails?
1002[/reply]
No it wouldn’t because NIN, though they sold more records, never actually had a clear message. It was always just a solopsistic whining “me me me” “look how depressed I am” and “nothing matters” (plus some total closet-case homosexuality that continues to this day).
At the most he might have ruffled some Christian feathers with an atheist message, and his bondage fetishes (which can be seen in Closure VHS but aren’t available to the casual fan) might have ruffled some feathers, but I don’t think those things compare to the degree that Manson has commented on society.
Trent (until recently) never really addressed politics or social issues whereas Manson confronted these things head on in spades. Some issues Manson has raised:
Androgyny, Sexuality, Commercialism, Drugs, Martyrdom, Assasination, Celebrity, Religion, Occult Themes, False Dichotomies, American Puritanical Ethics, Revolution, Columbine.
Not to mention Manson knows how to actually make a concept album with a coherent theme that evolves throughout the songs whereas Trent’s idea of a concept album involves writing songs about his depression and drug use and then pretending they are about a fictional character.
‘The Downward Spiral’ is an absolute masterpiece and is perhaps better as a complete work than any of Manson’s albums. I am not attacking NIN or knocking them in any way. My point is that Manson had more cultural or social impact than they did because he confronted those issues head-on whereas Trent was always solipsistic and self-absorbed.
I mean, look how Manson was blaimed for Columbine, attacked by Christian groups, censored etc. He went to court to demand the right to perform in some areas of the country, upholding free speech on many occasions. In addition, his CDs were banned in WalMart at one time. These kinds of things suggest more of a cultural impact than the angsty self-absorbed nihilism of NIN.
I think there’s a difference between attacking the well-worn sacrificial lambs of society, and actually having cultural impact/relevance. Not that I think Manson has no cultural significance. Certainly he does, but I think (my opinion) that you’re over-estimating his impact on society.
Compare portrayals in the media:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28771
vs.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,986206-17,00.html
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,986206-18,00.html
his bondage fetishes (which can be seen in Closure VHS but aren’t available to the casual fan)
Closure is easy as hell to find. Not only did the infamous seed0 throw it up on the net for the world to clamour for, but people have ripped the VHSes to DVD’s and been distributing them for aaaaaaages. Mind you, if your definition of casual Nine Inch Nails fan is: “aren’t they that band that did Head Like A Hole?” …then you’d be right on the money.
Howard Stern was talking about that Steve Martin book about a week ago, saying how good it was. Sounds like a must-read. Big fan of Steve (well, up through L.A. Story).
1002
Ha, I still listen to Stern too. Nice. Didn’t think anyone else did on here…
Yeah, been listening to him since '96 (when he first came on the air in Phoenix), and followed him right to Sirius. I know he has a history of classic shows over the years, but I don’t think anything in radio history can top the uncensored free-for-all that he broadcasts on satellite each week. Amazing radio, and who would’ve ever thought that George Takei would be one of the best sit-in guests ever on that show! Great stuff, at least for 3 more years.
1002
Honestly! Now what possible purpose could there be in making comparisons to prog rock ( let’s say Rush ) or metalgaze ( let’s say Jesu ) to ( gasp ) Marilyn Manson tho?
Simple: To project a spurious air of “expertise” to bolster a painfully fraudulent argument or comparison. Voidhead wants to praise lightweight faux goth pap in the same terms with which one would praise well developed complex pieces of music. In essence, he wants to eat his Big Mac and call it a filet Mignon too. This whole Manson is a true vaild artiste is a smokescreen for prefering the ersatz to the genuine. It’s just another example of the intellectual corruption that yr liable to fall into when you build yr inner life around the "Anti-Christ Superstar?/ Omega Red?/Brian Warner?/ whatever y’call him these days nincompoop concept.
Pure slush.
Well you’ve certainly revealed your ignorance here. Do you even know anything about music theory? Jesu is sophisticated, but please let’s not go overboard here. The band is no Emerson, Lake & Palmer, lol.
As for Manson’s “faux goth pap” … have you even heard the album ‘Mechanical Animals’? There is some pretty sophisticated song writing and guitar work on that album (and it pops here and there on other records as well).
Songs like “Fundamentally Loathesome” and “Speed of Pain” are not the work of an unskilled band. I’m positive that John 5 is a more technically skilled guitarist than Broadrick, innovation aside.
I think you’re really writing something off because of an image that you interpret as ridiculous because you don’t enjoy the intentional camp and over-the-top aesthetic of it. That’s fine.
Oh and Jesu is a fillet mignon? hahaha Get your head out of Broadrick’s ass. Go listen to Frank Zappa or King Crimson and masturbate to its technical complexity.
Your failure here is your attempt to classify artists based on a superficial hierarchy of technical prowess and your own childishly subjective views of what makes a band good, combined with the ridiculously smug and self-righteous attitude of a musical elitist.
Ministry rarely did anything outside of 4/4 time until ‘Filth Pig’. Does that make them inferior? My point is that different bands are good for different reasons. You’ve chosen to write Manson off based on a superficial view of who you think he is.
I’m not trying to rank artists here according to some bullshit hierarchy. I enjoy different artists for different reasons. I’m sorry you can’t appreciate Manson’s “faux goth pap”.
I’m with you voidhead, one thing though. Didn’t Zim Zum write all the guitar parts for Mechanical Animals before he left or got fired or whatever?
Don’t get me wrong I think John5 is good, I dig some of his solo stuff… just thought it was Zim on MA, which does indeed rock.
Just being a picky fanboy [sly]
I’m with you voidhead, one thing though. Didn’t Zim Zum write all the guitar parts for Mechanical Animals before he left or got fired or whatever?
Don’t get me wrong I think John5 is good, I dig some of his solo stuff… just thought it was Zim on MA, which does indeed rock.
Just being a picky fanboy [sly]
It was a combination of stuff Zim Zum wrote and then other things that Twiggy did after they booted Zim Zum I believe. Yes, John 5 was only the live guitarist for the tour.
That wasn’t my point though. The references to ‘Mechanical Animals’ and then to John 5 being a more technically competent guitarist than Broadrick were unconnected.
John 5 being a more technically competent guitarist than Broadrick
Broadrick seems to freely admit to not being that competent of a “musician”, at least in an interview or two ive heard.
Everything in music is personal and subjective. The music snobbery that some feel about certain bands is bizarre. Regardless on how well written or played a song is, does it really mean anything to the listener?
I heard some Jesu whilst in the States, I believe you guys when you say how good you find it. Me, it made me want to doze off.
Mechanical Animals?!!! Self indulgent whining of a rich man. Utter balls. Dullsville.
Not interested who Chris thanks and who he doean’t thank on his book. I just want to read the story and see what fun was had.