Boston Marathon bombing

Discussion
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Prison isn’t about rehabilitation. It is about retribution. It is about segregating someone from the rest of society because they have done something so egregious that they need to be locked in a cage.

It’s not even that.

I know somebody who did five years in prison for a pretty heinous crime, here in Australia - I’m going to assume he was “innocent”, like he told me because…well I don’t even want to think about if the reverse is true…it’s just a really disgusting and sick crime - and he told me that the whole thing is just a fuckin’ cakewalk.

He basically got to sit around playing xbox in his immaculate little cell - which was, incidently, better than what most Best Western motels have to offer - stroll around the gardens while “reflecting” on what he had/hadn’t done, attend group therapy classes in order to “get in touch” with his feelings, stuff his face full of food, read the paper and watch tv.

Oh and as for the rape thing…he said “it’s totally fabricated” as each cell had its own toilet and shower (not to mention cable tv and mini kitchen). He said in all the time he was there he saw TWO fights…and one of those was over a game of chess!

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^
I’m not familiar with the Australian justice system, but I can tell you that the above does NOT represent the US Prison Systems.

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^
I’m not familiar with the Australian justice system, but I can tell you that the above does NOT represent the US Prison Systems.

not even remotely…

241

Yeah, I’ll third that. That doesn’t sound like anything I’ve heard or seen from here.

I’ve known someone who was sent to prison and… well, I honestly cannot go into specifics but the last thing they’d give him is an xbox. As far as how clean his cell is? I wouldn’t know and I’m sure his misery prevents him from giving a crap or noticing as well.

Prison, to me, should be a last resort. There is no rehabilitation within the U.S. prison system. The amount of people who stay in or get out just to willfully go back in far outnumbers the amount who get out and get their shit together. It’s a mess that won’t be fixed over night and what makes it such a bummer is that it doesn’t even seem to be a concern to most right now.

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But isn’t “sadosexual cruelty” still rape? It also just seems so bizarre that that would be their go-to option when trying to degrade someone. Fucking weird. I couldn’t handle working in a prison simply because I can’t wrap my head around some of the logic.

How do “you guys” go about handling the rape situations and are they often broken up? Like an inmate screams and the guards, or whoever, intervenes or is it one of those things where most guards turn a blind eye or really don’t even see it happen? Is it often done towards someone like a child rapist, like many people suggest? Or is everyone fair game?

i wasnt a guard, nor would i have wanted to be. i was a counselor and part time teacher. as dark as that job got, i really do wish that the position still existed.

the issue with sexual violence in the american prison system (where entire wings within blocks share a single bathroom and have to shower in front of each other and possibly even under guards’ supervision) is that we are dealing with a group of human beings who have been stripped of their power and freedom tot he point that they cant even piss when they want to. as a result, to find strength over other people, you have to resort to the most primal id-like impulses. tied in with this is victim shame, fear of retribution, pride, and most of all a fear that if others find out that you have been victimized, that you will lose whatever ‘face’ you have left. this counts for everything from giving away what little goods you own, to being physically raped, or having to perform other sexual acts, or even just standing down in a moment of conflict.

prisons hurt our culture so much more than they help. and every time the issues within prisons are brought up, some knuckle-dragger IMMEDIATELY jumps to the extremes and says things like, ‘well that son of sam asshole aint walkin around no more, so i think prisons are good!’ or ‘well if we aint throwin the child rapists and serial killer cannibals in prison, what we suppost ta do?! give them food stamps?! liberal propaganda!’ or whatever. its disgusting.

the cases that shows like Criminal Minds, or whatever other murder-wank fest is on, show to us are NOT the norm. there arent millions of serial killers running around eating childrens sexual organs or anything like that… but there are millions of people in prison for the rest of their lives.

its disgusting.

243

What does everyone here make of Alex Jones ?

I personally think he’s just a conspiracy theorist douche, who’s making money off of gullible people by claiming that event’s like these are always a inside job.

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What does everyone here make of Alex Jones ?

I personally think he’s just a conspiracy theorist douche, who’s making money off of gullible people by claiming that event’s like these are always a inside job.

Fuck that douche…

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Obama blowed up the Marathon because he’s a lizard and wants the Jews to take our guns away and establish socialism so that he can give us all the AIDS so we don’t notice that that the same letters in Barack Obama spells Rocka Ma Baba. Wake up and smell the truth, America!

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From accounts I have heard, I believe that the impression of American prison system is a bit overstated. Yes it sucks but unless you’re talking about hardcore maximum security shit, the scenario being painted is excessively bleak compared to what I’ve heard.

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If you are going to commit a crime…do it in Norway. The Norwegian prison system is like a holiday camp. Also there is some incredibly tiny rate of re-offending. BECAUSE…wait for it…the Norwegian prison system is set up to REHABILITATE offenders and not punish them.

And what do you know…it actually works!

And yeah, Amlux is NOT kidding about the Australian prison system. It is a far cry from the American one. I’ve seen those American Prison docos on tv before and can honestly say we don’t have ANYTHING even remotely like that here.

It’s pretty cushy. Although I’m sure that some pretty fucked up shit goes on here and there…and there are serious bashings and even murders now and then. People who have been inside say that the worst thing is the boredom. You just get up, play some Xbox (yes, we are allowed game consoles over here), lift weights, feed your face, swim in the pool (yes, we have pools in our prisons!), read and generally just bum around.

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Yes, the Norwegian system is proven to be effective in “rehabilitation” and in minimizing recidivism. It is hard to reconcile some of their ways and means with respect to “justice”, though. If someone thinks that the only goal is to “rehabilitate” criminals then, sure, they’re majorly successful.

Norway has MAXIMUM caps on penalties, though, and they seem to have little concept of “punishment” or “justice”. Take, for example, the case of Anders Brevik who murdered 77 people (many children) for some idiotic anti-government bullcrap and injured more than 300. He got the MAXIMUM sentence (in his cushy five star suite) of 21 years. That’s right. About 3 months per death, if you average it out. Or less than a month per victim if you count the non-fatally injured.

This is the kind of stuff that makes my blood boil. I really don’t care how safe people like that are after their supposed rehabilitation. I think when you commit such acts you should lose your rights to this great club called life.

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I realize all I have to do is whisper your name

Even though you really want to scream it.
Late,
grmpysmrf

250

If you are going to commit a crime…do it in Norway. The Norwegian prison system is like a holiday camp. Also there is some incredibly tiny rate of re-offending. BECAUSE…wait for it…the Norwegian prison system is set up to REHABILITATE offenders and not punish them.

Samoth (rhythm guitarist of Emperor) burned a church with Varg of Burzum and only got 16 months.

251

Is this just based on assumption and stereotype, or did he actually say something to this effect? I’m asking seriously as I’ve not watched or ready any news or updates for the past week.

Didn’t see your question homie. Atom’s bullshit was clogging up all the other posts.

From what I’ve read and heard they did it for Islam. They’re not part of a cell or anything, the people at their mosque are just as shocked as everyone else. They are apparently self radicalised with the help of maybe one other older dude but they aren’t part of a cell, they were just upset that people aren’t living the way they should be. I read they were planning on hitting time square as well.
Late,
grmpysmrf

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some knuckle-dragger IMMEDIATELY jumps to the extremes and…’ or ‘well if we aint throwin the child rapists and serial killer cannibals in prison, what we suppost ta do?! give them food stamps?! liberal propaganda!’ or whatever. its disgusting.

At the risk of being your knuckle dragger, what are we supposed to do? What is your alternative? What kind of counseling/rehabilitation can we offer when outside the walls is still dehumanizing. How do we even approach that… “Here are the ways that you let society exploit you…”? seems like prison is a little less sugar coated for what it is. although outside the walls your less likely to be sexually assaulted by your boss or your customer, although you are dehumanized in other ways.
Late,
grmpysmrf

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At the risk of being your knuckle dragger, what are we supposed to do? What is your alternative? What kind of counseling/rehabilitation can we offer when outside the walls is still dehumanizing. How do we even approach that… “Here are the ways that you let society exploit you…”? seems like prison is a little less sugar coated for what it is. although outside the walls your less likely to be sexually assaulted by your boss or your customer, although you are dehumanized in other ways.
Late,
grmpysmrf

like i said, it is really an individual basis kinda deal. these people like dhamer and gacey and so on and so forth all have emotional scarring and dehumanizing wounds within themselves that help to steer them towards the realities they try to create. the way to fix that and move away from the horrors that man can do, we need to see each person as a human and push to breakdown mental barriers that are erected out of hate/fear.

there is no such thing as an innately ‘bad’ person. sociopathic behaviorisnt even necessarily a ‘bad’ thing if coaxed and cultivated. people are Mike Myers. people can BECOME him, but they arent born him. with that in mind, the way to keep people from becoming cannibal pedophile serial killers is to educate. make sure that child abuse is reported. make sure that CPS works the way its fucking supposed to. make sure that class war doesnt dictate education/health/care/human compassion. eradicate the stigmas around homo/trans/pan/bi/intersexuality, teach things for understanding NOT tests, look at humans as just that and not a number or statistic, and most of all fucking care about people.

education is key.

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So you think everyone is a product of their environment? Do you really think Gacy and Dahmer coud’ve been rehabilitated? from what I understand of Dahmer he was never abused or anything of the like he just liked doing fucked up shit.
Late,
grmpysmrf

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[reply]Is this just based on assumption and stereotype, or did he actually say something to this effect? I’m asking seriously as I’ve not watched or ready any news or updates for the past week.

Didn’t see your question homie. Atom’s bullshit was clogging up all the other posts.

From what I’ve read and heard they did it for Islam. They’re not part of a cell or anything, the people at their mosque are just as shocked as everyone else. They are apparently self radicalised with the help of maybe one other older dude but they aren’t part of a cell, they were just upset that people aren’t living the way they should be. I read they were planning on hitting time square as well.
Late,
grmpysmrf[/reply]

Yeah, I knew all that. My question was in reference to your claim that the kid “looks forward to death because of his religion”. While Muslims believe in an afterlife (I don’t recall if they also call it Heaven or not) it is silly (and quite erroneous) to assume that they are all eager to die. Jews and Christians also believe in Heaven. Are they all eager to die also? Of course not.

People should spend a little more time getting to know some Muslims or at least trying to learn something about their culture and beliefs (and realizing that like any group or culture they are widely varied as individuals) instead of getting their information from Fox News or some Sascha Baron Cohen film (not sure which would be worse, actually).

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Yeah, if they were really looking forward to death and being rewarded in some afterlife I’m pretty sure they would’ve gone out in that “blaze of glory” the media kept predicting.

So, while religion did play an integral role, this idiot wasn’t going out that way. Then again it’s been stated that they weren’t finished and were possibly planning on doing something in New York. Maybe they were going to then? It’s all speculation until he says so and even then I’d have a hard time believing most of what that asshole has to say.

Apparently Russia “intercepted a communication between the mother of the accused Boston Marathon bombers and someone who may have been one of her sons ‘discussing jihad’ in 2011”. http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/27/us/boston-attack/index.html

So you think everyone is a product of their environment? Do you really think Gacy and Dahmer coud’ve been rehabilitated? from what I understand of Dahmer he was never abused or anything of the like he just liked doing fucked up shit.
Late,
grmpysmrf

Being a product of your environment doesn’t necessarily mean that you do the things that Dahmer did because they were done to you. It’s just the environment in which you grew up in and the things you’d experienced in it have influence over what you do and why you do it. They don’t even necessarily have to be extremely negative in intent. Things can slowly warp one’s mind.

And I do think to a certain degree that people are a product of their environment. I also think that people have legitimate mental health issues. I don’t see these as excuses but as two of the many reasons or possibilities for why people like Dahmer do what they do. I also don’t believe it should prevent them from being punished.

As far as them being rehabilitated I don’t know if it’s possible to “rehabilitate” people like that. I’d brought up “3 Guys 1 Hammer” in another thread not too long ago, which was done by the “Dnepropetrovsk maniacs” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnepropetrovsk_maniacs. I don’t see how these people could be rehabilitated and I certainly do not believe they should ever be allowed to be a part of society ever again.

Not everything or everyone can be fixed. The prison system in the U.S. is certainly a disaster and needs some major fixing but some people are sociopaths who are so far off into their own universe where society’s morals are completely foreign to them to the point that there’s no coming back.

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[reply]So you think everyone is a product of their environment? Do you really think Gacy and Dahmer coud’ve been rehabilitated? from what I understand of Dahmer he was never abused or anything of the like he just liked doing fucked up shit.
Late,
grmpysmrf

Being a product of your environment doesn’t necessarily mean that you do the things that Dahmer did because they were done to you. It’s just the environment in which you grew up in and the things you’d experienced in it have influence over what you do and why you do it. They don’t even necessarily have to be extremely negative in intent. Things can slowly warp one’s mind.

And I do think to a certain degree that people are a product of their environment. I also think that people have legitimate mental health issues. I don’t see these as excuses but as two of the many reasons or possibilities for why people like Dahmer do what they do. I also don’t believe it should prevent them from being punished.

As far as them being rehabilitated I don’t know if it’s possible to “rehabilitate” people like that. I’d brought up “3 Guys 1 Hammer” in another thread not too long ago, which was done by the “Dnepropetrovsk maniacs” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnepropetrovsk_maniacs. I don’t see how these people could be rehabilitated and I certainly do not believe they should ever be allowed to be a part of society ever again.

Not everything or everyone can be fixed. The prison system in the U.S. is certainly a disaster and needs some major fixing but some people are sociopaths who are so far off into their own universe where society’s morals are completely foreign to them to the point that there’s no coming back.[/reply]

mental health issues are a real problem, but punishment doesnt help that. thats why care facilities exists, thats why in-patient safety is important, and that is why locked door medical facilities need to exist as well.

there are people who are so twisted up by things that they can never be ‘smoothed out’ ever again. that is very true, but throwing them into a cage with other and different offenders and treating them as less than human is in NO WAY a solid solution. its barbaric, and more so, its counterproductive.

Atom makes a good point here when he says that trauma doesnt mean it has to be abuse. like i said before the societal lust for violence and self-congratulation coupled with the rape culture we have cultivated in most of the world helps to take people who already have mental health issues and push them into things. this isnt an excuse, this is just life. you dont need to be beaten to feel like beating someone, but being surrounded by violence and having that nurtured within you, that will make you feel like it is ok to beat someone.

thats why i said that the solution isnt retroactive punishment, but active education.