still trying to figure out how one guitarist is “better” than the other, is there some strange point system we’re not aware of?
think of all the studio musicians that were actually playing instead of your heros.
is there some strange point system we’re not aware of?
Yes. And slash has all of the points.
Late,
grmpysmrf
is there some strange point system we’re not aware of?
Yes. And slash has all of the points.
Grmpy: to quote Peligro:
ACE FREHLEY WAS IN KISS!!!
KISS!!!
And KISS in the 70’s no less! Groupies! Good cocaine! Groupies!
think of all the studio musicians that were actually playing instead of your heros.
Yes, we should start a “Who’s Your Favorite STUDIO MUSICIAN?” thread. That would rule.
think of all the studio musicians that were actually playing instead of your heros.
I wasn’t aware of any studio musicians playing lead on any GNR release circa 1987-1993. Or any KISS release circa 1974-1979.
Although I did find it interesting to find the lead bass on the first Runaways album was played by a British guy!
[reply]think of all the studio musicians that were actually playing instead of your heros.
I wasn’t aware of any studio musicians playing lead on any GNR release circa 1987-1993. Or any KISS release circa 1974-1979.
Although I did find it interesting to find the lead bass on the first Runaways album was played by a British guy![/reply]
Well in 1979 KISS released Dynasty which is the first time the originals weren’t all on a studio album at the same time…Anton Fig sat in for Peter Criss…Criss is on the album cover,in the promo vids etc but didn’t play on the record…
60’s psyche guru and all round strange guy Kim Fowley was brought in to write songs for Destroyer. As was Bob Ezrin, the guy behind Alice Cooper.
Fact.
The COOP!!!
I’ll be seeing him in about a month in Vegas.
I put a star where my seat will be . . .
Kim Fowley is talented, though I must admit I don’t know how many of those songs he really wrote. He tried to buy the rights to “Welcome To The Jungle” from GNR for $50,000, at least that’s what Duff McKagan said in his book.
In any case, his actual solo records are out there, but entertaining as hell.
60’s psyche guru and all round strange guy Kim Fowley was brought in to write songs for Destroyer. As was Bob Ezrin, the guy behind Alice Cooper.
Fact.
Fact, Slash writes all of his own music [//discussion]
Late,
grmpysmrf
I don’t understand. Do you mean he plays all his own stuff in GNR or Velvet Revolver? Or do you mean he writes all the music in said acts?
Don’t know about VR, but GNR was a group effort most of the time. Only time I know that it wasn’t a group effort was “November Rain,” which was written by Axl. To think he wanted to put that on Appetite! Then again, this is the same guy who wrote “My World.” Ok, there’s 2 times it wasn’t a group effort.
I don’t understand. Do you mean he plays all his own stuff in GNR or Velvet Revolver? Or do you mean he writes all the music in said acts?
He wrote everything for the 1st Slash’s Snakepit album (including lyrics) as well as his first solo album(- the lyrics on the first solo record. The contributing vocalists came with their own lyrics). But for the second SnakePit Album both Velvet Revolver records and the second Solo Effort he only wrote the guitar parts, contributing musicians wrote their own parts. (DUFF Sorum Etc.)
GNR wasn’t actually that much of a group effort as people think. Slash wrote All of his own guitar parts parts for GNR, but Izzy Stradlin wrote most of the actual “Songs” (including lyrics)
My point was/is nobody has ever written shit for slash to play. Slash plays his own music. He doesn’t play other peoples shit as if it were his own (Ala all Aerosmith from permanent vacation album forward and apparently fuckin KISS’s Destroyer album) unless it’s a straight cover.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Don’t know about VR, but GNR was a group effort most of the time. Only time I know that it wasn’t a group effort was “November Rain,” which was written by Axl. To think he wanted to put that on Appetite! Then again, this is the same guy who wrote “My World.” Ok, there’s 2 times it wasn’t a group effort.
There are many instances that it wasn’t a group effort. Interesting fact… While yes November Rain is Axl’s baby all the guitar solos were written by slash, (Same with Estranged and Don’t cry was written by Izzy and Axl and slash. Music by Izzy Lyrics by Axl and solos by slash)and Axl only contributed Lyrics to My World. That whole song was Dizzy Reeds shitty keyboard “riff.” For people that can remember tapes. Pretty much all of illusion II and Side A of Illusion I was written by Izzy Stradlin with Slash writing Leads where needed and writing ALL solos that he played.
Also, it is true that Axl wanted November Rain on Appetite but it wasn’t that orchestral opus that we all know and love today. It was this unfinished/repetitive shitty piano piece that had abosulutely no guitars anywhere. so it was scrapped for “think about you” which in my opinion is the weakest song on the album and clearly a B side.
Late,
grmpysmrf
There are many instances that it wasn’t a group effort. Interesting fact… While yes November Rain is Axl’s baby all the guitar solos were written by slash, (Same with Estranged and Don’t cry was written by Izzy and Axl and slash. Music by Izzy Lyrics by Axl and solos by slash)and Axl only contributed Lyrics to My World. That whole song was Dizzy Reeds shitty keyboard “riff.” For people that can remember tapes. Pretty much all of illusion II and Side A of Illusion I was written by Izzy Stradlin with Slash writing Leads where needed and writing ALL solos that he played.
Thanx for the clarification. I need to buy those cd’s again.
Also, it is true that Axl wanted November Rain on Appetite but it wasn’t that orchestral opus that we all know and love today. It was this unfinished/repetitive shitty piano piece that had abosulutely no guitars anywhere. so it was scrapped for “think about you” which in my opinion is the weakest song on the album and clearly a B side.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Did it sound like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR97UrXlERY
Agreed on Think About You. Never liked that song. They should’ve fit another Hollywood Rose song on there instead.
Did it sound like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR97UrXlERY
no the one I heard was way less polished… may have been the acoustic version… yes the acoustic version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmGXyyuqaUc&feature=fvwrel
Agreed on Think About You. Never liked that song. They should’ve fit another Hollywood Rose song on there instead.
Yeah, a polished studio version of shadow of your love may have been a better choice especially slipped in between you’re crazy and anything goes. that would make my michelle launch right into sweet child. that would be awesome.
Late,
grmpysmrf
I’m unfamiliar with Ace Frehely so can’t really pick one or the other but from what I’ve heard of Kiss I’d say Slash.
When I found out a lot of the riffs Slash played were just slightly different versions of riffs Izzy played/wrote and different versions of Axl’s vocal melodies/piano parts I had a clearer idea of what he brought to gnr:
-
Solos. His guitar solos were, in a few cases, songs within songs. “Sweet Child O’ Mine” for example, and “The Garden”.
-
Interplay. A better name for this was coined by a member of the Rolling Stones. Ronnie Wood (I think) calls it weaving. It’s a style of guitar playing where two guitarists weave parts in and out of each other, neither really being the lead or rhythm because they both are.
Izzy and Slash would play like this, but the difference was that Slash was in most cases louder in the final mix. On Use Your Illusions, Slash would weave with Izzy’s recorded guide tracks - most of Izzy’s guitar tracks were recorded as guide tracks on top of or possibly along with the drums, maybe bass. Izzy left before the songs were finished.
A guide track is for other people to play along to in the studio, once everything is recorded the guide track is often thrown away. Back to weaving… Izzy’s guide track was sometimes very low in the mix - as a guide track less time was spent on recording it as good as other songs he completed, cos it’s only a guide. Slash would weave along to the guide track, and his overdubs would weave along to Slash’s other guitar. This can be heard in “You Could Be Mine”. The song suffers as a result of Izzy leaving, as does a lot of songs on those albums. Slash’s playing on YCbM is great though, especially his take on the main riff Izzy wrote and the feedback solo before the vocals start. It’s the way Slash plays the guitar, it sounds ferocious. That’s one of the best things about his guitar playing.
In “The Garden” you can clearly hear how he plays off Axl’s backing vocals. This is one of the only examples of Guns n’ Roses ability to be any good without Izzy as Izzy had well left the band by then.
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Restraint.
“Double Talkin’ Jive”. Izzy wrote this, sang this, played/wrote the solo etc. There was no need for Slash to be on this song and he’s on it at the very end playing the solo that Izzy wrote, but on acoustic guitar. Technically it’s when the song’s already finished but Slash’s version of Izzy’s solo is beautiful. Grmpysmurf, sorry but Izzy wrote the solo. Slash embellished it with some fast extra notes but embellishing an existing solo with some fast extra notes does not make a writer of someone elses solo. Thankfully, Slash knows not wank all over a perfectly good song! So yeah, Restraint cos if Slash wanted to he could have thought to himself “I’m the only guitarist left in the band so I will play over evveryyythaaaaaaaaaang and it will be The Slash Album yeahh!” As an aside, Axl took this approach with vocals - most of Izzy’s songs have Axls BACKING vocals higher than the lead vocals. Ruins the songs for me. Slash never ruined any of those tunes. -
well, 3 and 4 are maybe a bit mixed up at this point. anyway, Riffs. Slash wrote some good riffs but most of them were written with Izzy, or Duff or whoever else.
As good as Slash is/can be, I’ve heard no good music from Slash without Izzy or Axl involved. He needs good people to feed off creatively and without someone else who’s good he’s pretty much wasting his time. so out of Ace and Slash, I’d say Izzy and Slash.
I’m not saying yer wrong but where did you get all of this info on izzy?
Also, I knew slash and izzy worked well together so I’ve always wondered how come slash never kept up with izzy, I mean I know izzy is clean but so is slash (I’m sure he still smokes weed). Unfortunately, I was way beyond star struck when I met slash to even think to ask how come they don’t at least collaborate anymore. I have quite a few izzy abums, and you can hear the same song structures and tell exactly how much influence izzy had on most of the GNR songs. While izzy albums are still really good I think its missing the raunch of the other members and ends up being heavily titlted towards southern rock rather than blues. his albums are the only albums I can really listen to from that genre. I really like the album “ride on.” Its ashame it wasn’t released in the states.
Late,
grmpysmrf
In “The Garden” you can clearly hear how he plays off Axl’s backing vocals. This is one of the only examples of Guns n’ Roses ability to be any good without Izzy as Izzy had well left the band by then.
Izzy didn’t leave til november 1991. UYI 1 and 2 were released in september 1991.
[reply]In “The Garden” you can clearly hear how he plays off Axl’s backing vocals. This is one of the only examples of Guns n’ Roses ability to be any good without Izzy as Izzy had well left the band by then.
Izzy didn’t leave til november 1991. UYI 1 and 2 were released in september 1991.[/reply]
This is true, sorry my mistake. I’d read that Izzy was only in the studio for a week or so and gradually didn’t bother coming back while the rest of the band to be fair worked their arses off. So that’s why to me it’s like he’d already left the band. He left quickly after it was released so whether it was only official after the album came out I’m not sure.