In your mind, Zimmerman killed the kid, so he’s a murderer . . . end of story. That’s not the way MURDER is determined.
you can make a semantical argument all you want. yeah in my thoughts the circumstances surrounding zimm’s actions make it murder. He followed that kid and shot him… what do you call that?
the fact that he is not paying any kind of legal punishment for killing that kid is a disgrace
Late,
grmpysmrf
It’s the intent.
The most important INTENT of the case was whether or not Zimmerman had INTENT to take the life of Trayvon. This was not proven to the jury, hence, no MURDER conviction.
everyone knows what that “suggestion” was. semantics are bullshit when it comes to killing that.
Do they? It seems that your conviction is based on a LOT of assumptions which aren’t typically the strongest types of evidence in court.
[reply]
It’s the intent.
The most important INTENT of the case was whether or not Zimmerman had INTENT to take the life of Trayvon. This was not proven to the jury, hence, no MURDER conviction.
[/reply]
or manslaughter charge either which means it wasn’t an “accident” either. again, even bigger pile of bullshit.
[reply]everyone knows what that “suggestion” was. semantics are bullshit when it comes to killing that.
Do they? It seems that your conviction is based on a LOT of assumptions which aren’t typically the strongest types of evidence in court.
[/reply]
what assumptions? that the law didn’t need him to follow him but he did anyway? it seems like that was pretty well established.
you can make a semantical argument all you want. yeah in my thoughts the circumstances surrounding zimm’s actions make it murder. He followed that kid and shot him… what do you call that?
Dude, are you high? Don’t use words like “semantical argument” when it comes to MURDER. Murder, in a court of law, must be proved to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt, meeting certain points of criteria. This didn’t happen and the jury found Zimmerman NOT GUILTY.
I wonder how liberal you really are sometimes as your understanding of the justice system seems to lean more to the Wild Wild West than a modern educated courtroom.
the fact that he is not paying any kind of legal punishment for killing that kid is a disgrace
I’m not arguing otherwise. And, truth be told, I actually agree with it on an emotional level.
What I’m arguing with you is your misunderstanding of the justice system or the apparent assumption that we should OVERRIDE it when it doesn’t suit your particular understandings or desires.
what assumptions? that the law didn’t need him to follow him but he did anyway? it seems like that was pretty well established.
You continue to repeat things that are not true. Zimmerman stopped following Martin when the dispatcher said he did not need to follow him. Also, Rachel Jeantel testified that Martin confronted Zimmerman first. Another witness, a neighbor, testified that they saw Martin on top of Zimmerman in a “ground and pound” type position.
These are just a couple of the facts/witness testimonies we have to go on that paint a completely different picture than the one you are attempting to. And people repeatedly calling Zimmerman a “racist” - despite there being no reason to think this - does nothing but detract from the actual issue and events that took place and it really doesn’t benefit anyone.
It’s a shame that a 17 year old died and two parents lost their son. I’ve stated this before. However, it is irrelevant to the case and whether Zimmerman murdered Martin and was the one to start the altercation or if he reacted in self defense.
I look at it like this: murder is murder, self defense or not. that’s not the American court way to look at it though. if Zimmerman wanted, he could have shot Martin in the legs or arm instead.
I was reading a Native American book and the author was saying how they handled crimes in their tribe for a while. Killing was killing in their eyes, so if a person shot someone and was caught, they’d have their best friend come about a week later to shoot the killer. That wast the law, you kill someone and you’re caught, your best friend will kill you. Harsh, very harsh, but the crime rates sure were low!
I wonder how liberal you really are sometimes as your understanding of the justice system seems to lean more to the Wild Wild West than a modern educated courtroom.
??? seriously? Zimmerman Wild wested that kid and nothing happened to him. That is more wild west than what I’m suggesting.
Late,
grmpysmrf
You continue to repeat things that are not true. Zimmerman stopped following Martin when the dispatcher said he did not need to follow him.
at that point in time he said ok. by the end of the call it was very clear that zimms planned to follow him by the fact that he couldn’t tell the dispatcher where he would be when the police showed up. Not only that the altercation should have happened by his truck if he was not following him and martin approached him. which isn’t the case.
Also, Rachel Jeantel testified that Martin confronted Zimmerman first.
even though zimms said himself martin was running away
Another witness, a neighbor, testified that they saw Martin on top of Zimmerman in a “ground and pound” type position.
who is able to pull a gun aim and shoot when some one is on top of them bashing their head against the concrete in a “ground and pound position?”
Late,
grmpysmrf
Disgusting!!!
[url http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/15/19488815-zimmerman-juror-gets-book-agent?lite] Zimmerman juror gets book agent
ok, I’ll rephrase, killing is killing
It’s very clear you’ve been watching fox.
You’re an idiot.
ok, I’ll rephrase, killing is killing
Okay. Should we also prosecute abortion doctors too? Just curious. Or is abortion NOT killing because it doesn’t fit someone’s particular social paradigm or an individual’s value set to define it as such?
A lot of people are so simplistic on here, and I just don’t think that’s how things work when we are talking about courts of law, or even how they SHOULD work. Due process, kids.
How’s this for simplicity? . . . if Trayvon didn’t fight a guy with a gun he wouldn’t be dead. Hiiiiyyyyyoooooo!!!
if a girl gets an abortion, she’s killing a premature baby. is it killing a living object though? yes. but that should be an exception 
I don’t know man. this whole thing is just giving me a headache and making me question too many things.
as for martin fighting a man with a gun…sure he can fight a man with a gun, anyone can. but like I said before, the man with the gun didn’t have to fatally shoot him no matter how threatened or beat up he was. I’ve gotten the shit beat out of me (for being white in a black neighborhood) and I had a box cutter and scissors in my pocket but didn’t take them out or use it in the fight. but everyone’s different.
I don’t know man. this whole thing is just giving me a headache and making me question too many things.
It SHOULD. Questioning things is healthy and productive. I just don’t like when people who either are not familiar with an issue or have an incomplete or incorrect understanding of something get mega-dogmatic about it.
as for martin fighting a man with a gun…sure he can fight a man with a gun, anyone can. but like I said before, the man with the gun didn’t have to fatally shoot him no matter how threatened or beat up he was. I’ve gotten the shit beat out of me (for being white in a black neighborhood) and I had a box cutter and scissors in my pocket but didn’t take them out or use it in the fight. but everyone’s different.
I hear ya. And all of this is one reason I DON’T have a gun, to be honest. I don’t know at what point I would start to think my life is in danger, but I do know that if I ended up in a situation where I THOUGHT my life was in danger and I had a gun, chances are someone would be eating lead for dinner. I don’t want to deal with that any more than I want to be killed (or buttraped by someone from to the government, of course).
My main point, I suppose, is that I wasn’t there and neither were any of the Prongers. The jurors weren’t there either, but they have been given access to all the information that was available and deemed relevant and/or permissible. They were entrusted via the jury system to carefully analyze everything and come to a conclusion in accordance with legal guidance and conscientious consideration of whether or not Zimmerman was guilty.
He is a killer. Make no mistake. No one has ever argued that he did not shoot Trayvon. But it was up to a jury to decide whether that killing was murder or not, and they’ve done just that.
certainly, questioning is healthy. and I’m happy to see support around the nation for this case. I guess I’m just happy to see some unity after such apathy. but we’ll see where the country is in 2 weeks. probably forgetting about all this.
[reply]You continue to repeat things that are not true. Zimmerman stopped following Martin when the dispatcher said he did not need to follow him.
at that point in time he said ok. by the end of the call it was very clear that zimms planned to follow him by the fact that he couldn’t tell the dispatcher where he would be when the police showed up. Not only that the altercation should have happened by his truck if he was not following him and martin approached him. which isn’t the case.
Also, Rachel Jeantel testified that Martin confronted Zimmerman first.
even though zimms said himself martin was running away
Another witness, a neighbor, testified that they saw Martin on top of Zimmerman in a “ground and pound” type position.
who is able to pull a gun aim and shoot when some one is on top of them bashing their head against the concrete in a “ground and pound position?”
Late,
grmpysmrf[/reply]
Here we go again where people have to constantly repeat the same shit because Grumpy doesn’t get it or simply ignores it. I’ve stated several times already that he did actually stop once they told him he didn’t need to follow Martin. After that Martin confronted him. This is from testimony and using times and locations from cellphone calls Martin made to Rachel Jeantel. So while it might not be the truth it’s as close to it as we have right now.
Martin was supposedly running away earlier on in the conversation. The fuck is wrong with you? You can’t be this dense. You read the goddamn link and even quoted it.
Uh, what? Who isn’t able to pull out a gun when they’re being pounded on and having their head slammed into concrete? Why isn’t that possible? That’s really your rebuttal? Not only is it something that isn’t in any way unbelievable but if we were to use your logic, people can pull off some amazing things when fighting for their lives. But that isn’t even the case here. As usual you’re at the end of your rope and reaching now.
But hey, you know everything. Forget what people who actually saw what happened said, forget the evidence, the witnesses’ testimonies, etc. I’ve tried to be decent with you while discussing this with my last couple of posts but frankly you’re a fucking idiot. Plain and simple.
You argue not because you believe you’re right but because you are too fucking weak and fragile to admit when you’re wrong.
you’re going in circles. but fear not you’re back on the ignore list. It’s clear you’re still high
[reply]
It’s very clear you’ve been watching fox.
You’re an idiot.[/reply]
You’re transparent and a complex moron.
Okay, now you come at me with 3 insults and then I’ll do 4 and we’ll keep it going till one of us can’t think of anymore.
saying
That kid got what he deserved.
is beyond the pale of decency, especially when he started out minding his own business.
Late,
grmpysmrf
[reply]you’re going in circles. but fear not you’re back on the ignore list. It’s clear you’re still high
He’s going in circles because he has to keep explaining things to you that are obvious. I mean seriously, your comment about it not possible to pull a gun when your head is being bashed is ridiculous.
We should make a “Life according to grmpy list”
What other things can we add?[/reply]
the only reason to follow someone is to kill them.
where the fuck did you get that? zimms followed him cause he was a profiling piece of shit. then got himself into trouble for profiling and that’s when he killed him
yeah cause apparently zimms is the only fella in the world that doesn’t become disoriented when he repeatedly takes a head full of cement as some attacker stands over him beating him unmercifully. tell that one to the fucking tourists.
If you can move your arms so well while being slammed on the concrete how about using them to NOT have your head bashed in? or even still, hitting the attacker in the face and slamming his head on the ground as well?
nah carmangary would would much rather pray to his almighty pistol that can do no wrong.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Grumpy, how the HELL do you know what Zimmerman’s intent was? More often than not, you make assumptions about what I am thinking and you are 180 degrees out. You have no clue what Zimmerman was out to do. Do you assume that if some kids follow a hot girl at the mall that they are out to rape her? What is wrong with you?
You think Zimms wanted his phone number? Just becauseit wasn’t premeditated doesn’t mean it wasn’t murder.