That album may be lyrically childish, but musically it’s STILL ahead of its time.
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Fixed for me, we would close and lock all the kitchen doors at the deer creek music center turn fixed up all the way on repeat and do the catering rider’s all day long.
200 acres, seven stocked lakes, lots of forestry and gas powered golf carts…god i miss the creek.
Actually lived on property during show season.
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I don’t think they’re childish at all. I think they’re honest. Sin, ringfinger, Terrible Lie, Head like a hole, something I can never have, these are all just odes to always finishing last, for being a dupe for seeing the best in others. When Trent disavowed this album I immediately thought he’s forgotten what those experiences were like.
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PHM is one my favorites too. Way ahead of it’s time. I don’t think he hates it, at least not in the same way that Al feels about WS. He still regularly performs songs from it. “That’s What I Get” even made an appearance in one of the setlists on this tour.
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Pretty hate machine absolutely changed everything, anything similar that was out at that time bowed down period.
Still patiently waiting for that proper super deluxe phm.
Could you e v e n imagine.
Bring on the box trent but take your time!!
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Buck 65 - man overboard original anticon vinyl.
I think it’s both childish and extremely honest. The sorts of feelings he’s talking about are very Jr High/High School but he’s talking about them in a very emotionally true way. At the time I was in HA so was embarrassed by the lyrics but now I think they’re some of his best. His angry guy lyrics seem very much a reaction to the earlier more emotionally real lyrics and are largely childish too. Now I feel his lyrics come very close to what you’d get if you asked ChatGPT to generate NIN lyrics. Super generic
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Any shortcomings in the lyrics can definitely be made up for on the musical side. I’m still kind of blown away that some kid in his early 20s could make a record that unique and complex. Trent definitely is a musical prodigy.
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I get what you’re saying, but every body usually goes through that stuff and go through it usually for the rest of their life whether dealing with it directly or just reflecting about when it happened. I think it gets assigned the high school/jr high label because that’s when most people become aware of that stuff so it leaves a mark and the lyrics remind you of a “time when.”
I definitely agree that they are some of his best lyrics, compare them to any song off of TDS (with the exception of hurt, which honestly sounds like it coulda been a PHM b side), I think that most of the lyrics off of TDS were for shock value, I mean “I wanna fuck you like an animal/I wanna feel you from the inside”?? there’s not one lyric on PHM that is that cringe or superficial than those lines, and honestly I kinda feel those lyrics sum up all the lyrics on TDS.
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Trent on drugs era. You’ve seen what happens when rock godz kick the habits even though nin has remained relevant in the soberest of days.
I hear you, I agree the topics are very eternal but I think the language used is very young. Things like “I gave you my purity and my purity you stole” lacks the sort of nuance and perspective that age may give. But I agree that having that additional nuance would actually lessen the impact of the lyrics in many ways.
Not to go off on a tangent, but it’s fun to chat about. And yeah, TDS is really silly lyrically, but at 19 I felt it was way more mature. Yep, I was an edge lord before the term existed.
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I see what you mean. Yeah, that’s a fair point.
You’re not off topic. I was thinking essentially the same thing about how its nice to have a conversation again here on the old prongs board. 
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And this conversation got me to pull out PHM and listen to it for the first time in ages. Sounded great!
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funny you should say that. I keep terrible lie and head like a hole in somewhat decent rotation, but it had been a while since I had listened to PHM all the way through and about 3 mos. ago I did just that, and I agree it still holds up. Something I can never have still just as powerful as ever but this time it had a bit of nostalgia thrown in with it. 
I’ve gone back to TDS a few times over the last few years and it’s still just not there for me. Hurt is definitely the stand out track but everything else on that album just reeks of machismo, like trent finally made the varsity football team and decided to write an album about it… like you said edge lord nonsense. some of the music is ok but man the lyrics really are just a drag on it for me.
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I wouldn’t necessarily call the lyrics “childish”, but they definitely reek of moody/angsty teen. Which definitely spoke to me at that time. I have an affinity for PHM as I was a teen coming up in the goth/industrial scene in Cleveland at the time. We were all just so excited that one of our own was getting in with the Wax Trax! crew. Shit, the first time I heard PHM, I was given a copy of a copy of a copy (see what I did there?) of the album before it even came out. I’m sure it really wouldn’t be worth a shit, but I wish I still had it.
I dismissed TDS pretty much right away, as I was still sporting that Punk Rock Purity Test I think most of us did at the time. You know, the “they’re a sell out” phase. Anyway, I’ve since come back around on that one, although I think I prefer the FTDS remix album better. Although, “Reptile” may be the best song TR ever wrote. Debatable along with “Burn”.
That said, and I’ve already debated this with grmps somewhere, I think “Ringfinger” is easily the worst song he’s ever written. It makes me cringe just thinking about it. I’m happy it’s last on that record as it’s easier to turn off before it plays.
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I still like TDS because it’s very nostalgic for me and I think it’s musically strong, but yeah the lyrics aren’t what I thought they were. I do agree with Acid Cripple that Reptile is a fantastic track - I especially love live versions of it from that era. Also Sin live around TDS-era was fantastic).
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Haha, “Ringerfinger” is decent to me but I prefer the “Switch” demo and I’ve probably listened to that version more over the years so I’m always surprised when the lyrics don’t go the way I expect (happened to me yesterday when I listened to it).
I can’t wait for year zero vinyl release, total fav after fixed.
Remember the coast to coast scavenger hunt during the year zero release, people that found that stuff named thier own price on ebay.
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