once again…they were NOT building a MOSQUE, but a COMMUNITY CENTER!
It would be pretty easy of me to sit here, sip my coffee and type: I hate Islam and everything it stands for.
But Islam as a religion has been butchered and manipulated and misquoted and misrepresented and misunderstood to such an extent over the years that you’d be hard pressed to find anyone alive who really understand what it’s core values are.
‘Islam’ itself sure as hell didn’t bring down those buildings in New York. And I’d like to see where in the Koran does it say that kind of act is tolerable.
I guess as long as the mosque itself (or community centre) is not used as a platform to denounce Western values and preach hatred then I’d be ok with it.
But then again, I’d be fine with it if someone decided to build a McDonalds or Burger King or whatever there instead instead so…I’m probably the wrong guy to ask.
Also, does it really say in the Koran that women should be subservient and cover their faces? I’d like to see where it says that, 'cos I find I find all that stuff really offensive.
It would be pretty easy of me to sit here, sip my coffee and type: I hate Islam and everything it stands for.
But Islam as a religion has been butchered and manipulated and misquoted and misrepresented and misunderstood to such an extent over the years that you’d be hard pressed to find anyone alive who really understand what it’s core values are.
‘Islam’ itself sure as hell didn’t bring down those buildings in New York. And I’d like to see where in the Koran does it say that kind of act is tolerable.
I guess as long as the mosque itself (or community centre) is not used as a platform to denounce Western values and preach hatred then I’d be ok with it.
But then again, I’d be fine with it if someone decided to build a McDonalds or Burger King or whatever there instead instead so…I’m probably the wrong guy to ask.
Also, does it really say in the Koran that women should be subservient and cover their faces? I’d like to see where it says that, 'cos I find I find all that stuff really offensive.
it doesn’t say that anywhere. it says for women AND MEN to dress “modestly”. it’s all interpretations.
An islamic community center? That’s not as bad. And I like how Peligro stuttered and forgot commas in his/her previous post [:)]
However I think the term “radical” could apply to any Muslim who is actually following the Qu’ran, no?
Hmm…let’s see here, I’m a muslim, I do actually follow the teachings of the Quran & I try my best to pray 5 times a day…
…& I’m also into BBW stuff.
Does that make me a radical, no? [:)]
…& I’m also into BBW stuff.
Does that make me a radical, no? [:)]
I beg to differ! BBW makes anyone radical![:)]
Late,
grmpysmrf
People are just afraid of what they don’t understand. I say build the mosque/community center whatever, and go suck a dick.
Jesus is the son of Allah!!
There’s a mosque in the Pentagon.
Maybe the problem is people like to talk about religion without actually READING the religious works.
I believe everyone involved in this discussion, myself stupid self included as well as the PC people who want to say every bad thing about Islam is a misinterpretation, is supremely guilty of this.
The point is when I look at Muslim theocracy I see oppression of women, violence, and denial of homosexuality.
I dislike all of those things.
Maybe they are misinterpreting?
When I see a woman covered in Muslim garb I do not see beauty. I see oppression. Even if it is willingly worn. Oppression can be chosen.
Are all of these women wearing these outfits and men who encourage this subservient behavior, are they all misinterpreting too? Why don’t they cover their fucking body and/or face so only their wife can see their beauty too?
Now I don’t know if that reflects a strict interpretation of the Qu’ran or if these people are “misinterpreting”. Because a whole lot of people are interpreting something I don’t support.
So if this thing is open to interpretation and it often leads to interpretation that means women are hiding their beauty and behaving as inferiors, i don’t support that thing that is causing those (mis?)interpretations.
And honestly I don’t care because the one thing I do know is that identifying with an organized religion is in my opinion fucking stupid and why do it if you don’t agree 100% with all of the principles?
Yes I dislike Islam, as I dislike all Monotheistic religions because they all share an obsession with controlling people’s behavior. I understand they may have been necessary in the past when people need a regulating law and they don’t know anything about science or the world so it’s easier to scare them into believing in a higher power and using that power to control them.
But this is not necessary any longer and they should be left behind like so many ugly artifacts of history.
Again this is my opinion.
I have done some heavy research into Christianity and its involvement in defining and persecuting Sodomy and, later, homosexuality.
This religion and its obsession with cataloging and defining sinful behavior single handedly turned the Western world from a place that was sexually free, where the concept of “homosexuality/heterosexuality” was not even defined and did not exist, to a sexually repressed society where we are still breaking out of their obsession with regulating our behavior.
That is disgusting to me.
Also.
Here’s what I found from some dumb site after a 5 minute google search. Maybe someone can substantiate or refute this.
I mean if some of this shit is in there than how the fuck are you going to tell me Islam is a religion of peace?
Now this was a 5 minute google search. Hardly research. I am fully admitting that I have not done the research to definitively say that this is a religion of violence/oppression.
However it is my believe that all Monotheistic religions are designed to control people. And I think belief in God is not for me.
You’re probably not going to change my mind and I’m not going to change yours probably.
I mean I want us all to singe Kumbaya by the fire too but maybe you should dump your ugly old faiths behind first, even if your interpretation of them conveniently leaves some things behind…
STUPID QUOTES THAT MAY/MAY NOT BE IN THE Q’URAN AND MAY/MAY NOT BE MISTRANSLATED AND WHICH MAY OR MAY NEED LEED TO MISINTERPRETATIONS THAT ISLAM FUCKING SUCKS:
"The Qur’an encourages murder:
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.”
Qur’an 9:5
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
Qur’an 9:29
The Qur’an promotes hate of Christians:
“O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.” Qur’an 5:51
“O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have faith (indeed).”
Qur’an 5:57
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
Qur’an 9:29
“Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.”
Qur’an 98:6
The Qur’an promotes beating of wives:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).”
Qur’an 4:34
“If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.”
Qur’an 4:15"
@ void
I don’t think anyone here on the board is promoting any specific faith/god at all.
If the quotes that you have selected are true, man that shit is pretty fucked!
For the most part I agree with the majority of what you have written, I can’t really atest to the quotes from the koran though because I don’t know in what context they are written in, unless they are just the blanket statements within the book, then they speak for themselves.
I don’t think I have to tell you or anyone else that the christians have some fucked up shit in their book also though? Selling daughters into slavery, stoning women to death… religion is just an ancient form of government
Late,
grmpysmrf
take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport
That’s the only thing I agree with out of all those quotes you posted. Of course I interpret that as beliefs and ideals, NOT RELIGION. I’m not totally anti religious bc I think everyone needs something to believe in, even if it is hella stupid. But the Qu’ran is fucking pathetic after reading all that. Is the Qu’ran the same as the Koran? If those are the same book then I’m gonna have to say I oppose this religion as much as I do mormonism.
But I don’t want this thread to be a major attack on religion. I’m just stating what I see as a fact
I think it is incredibly stupid to oppose the building of a COMMUNITY CENTRE, BLOCKS from Ground Zero just because under 20 people (from a religion with 1.5 BILLION believers, so around .0000013% of that population) did something that killed 3000 people.
Yes I get it, it was a horrible day people will never forget but unless the Community Centre holds ‘We hate America’ lunches or holds rallies to support terrorism etc there should be no issue.
As for void’s post, where do I begin?
When I see a woman covered in Muslim garb I do not see beauty. I see oppression. Even if it is willingly worn. Oppression can be chosen.
Beauty is such an objective thing so just because you do not see beauty doesn’t mean there is none.
Are all of these women wearing these outfits and men who encourage this subservient behavior, are they all misinterpreting too? Why don’t they cover their fucking body and/or face so only their wife can see their beauty too?
Islamic men DO wear modest clothing, and as for covering their face, it’s called a beard.
I find Western society’s ideal of beauty very oppressive, it’s all about restriction and being a submissive, demure woman with a sex kitten side. You’re (generally) not considered sexy/beautiful if you’re not within what is considered ‘perfect’ let alone being a fat, covered up pasty redhead with a penchant for having an IQ over 150.
You can put disclaimers on all the bigoted and narrow minded rants you like, they still are bigoted and narrow minded.
rizuan76 You’re a man after my own heart.
Islam is the most hysterical, misogynistic, and stagnant of all the major religions. Eveything the fundies believe is not invented by them but is based on passages of the Koran. It’s the same with the evils of Xtianity, the Bible has some bad shit in there. Deuteronomy & Leviticus.
But that aside, let them have their center. If there’s reason to be worried about what they’re doing there, keep a close eye on them.
I’m told there’s a strip club not far from there either, so it’s not as if taste is the real issue here.
If there’s reason to be worried about what they’re doing there, keep a close eye on them.
I heard Osama bin Laden is using it as his new global supervillainy headquarters!
You can take violent quotes out of any religious text, even if they are taken entirely out of context. They all have them and you can easily google them.
Do read:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/14/the-meaning-of-the-koran/
I’m curious about the term “Community Center”. Does that mean that they will allow Jews in their community center to worship thier god as well? Can christians, mormons, pagans, witches, whetever… go to this community center to worship their made up beliefs as well? If not, then it is not a “Community Center”.
I don’t care if it’s built or not.
It’s all good. This is America. I’m just waiting for my vendor license so I can set up a hot dog cart on the sidewalk in front. I’m going to serve bacon-wrapped hotdogs flame-grilled over burning Korans.
I’m going to call my business KoranDogs and the carts will be staffed by bikini-clad hot chicks with burkas over their heads (seriously, is it any less degrading than what the Hot Dog On A Stick girls have to wear?).
Are Jews allowed to go to the Community Center does anyone know?
Are Jews allowed to go to the Community Center does anyone know?
I’ve actually worked with similar groups and facilities before (mostly Jewish Community Centers and Armenian Centers). They are typically non-profit organizations and they are largely subsidized by membership dues. They also often get public grants which, I believe, right off the bat would make it illegal for them to exclude religious or racial groups of any sort.
As the facility in question is not really even a Mosque, but a “Cultural Center” or “Community Center” or whatever, it would be my guess that anyone that pays the dues and abides by the rules of conduct would be allowed. Jews may not feel super welcome there, but I’m guessing that they would not explicitly deny them access.