Wow, this debate is heating up…
What’s the deal over in the states? Are lots of people opposing this thing? I’m guessing it’s a somewhat of a heated point of controversy. Obviously there’s still a lot of ill will, if you like, towards Islamics over there.
Anyone here oppose this thing? Or think it should be built?? Anyone not care??
It’s a tough one.
Personally I think it should be built as that’s what the States is all about.
On the other hand my Mom or Dad or Brother Or Sister etc wasn’t killed on 9/11.
i thought this was over? didn’t the muslims back out?
had a huge debate about this in another thread. the muslims announced their plans to build the mosque MONTHS ago, but it didn’t get picked up by the media until the elections came up. fucking conservatives looking to stir up shit and get votes.
There are a lot of people in America who think the First Amendment applies only to Christians.
It’s kind of sad, really.
The Ground Zero Mosque is neither on Ground Zero nor a mosque.
Yet fucking idiots protest it regardless.
Well there was also some issue where the ones owning the property couldn’t even pay their taxes…
I dunno it’s all hearsay to me I haven’t really looked too far into it.
I detest Islam and I think a mosque on that site would indeed by a blight and a hideous eyesore.
But assuming they have their shit together it is their right and yes that is important to our country.
Important enough it needs to be allowed provided they’ve complied with everything properly.
Now I wouldn’t cry if I saw the thing burned to the ground by rednecks. In fact I might throw a party. But hey, that’s just me…
umm… wow…
this is like complaining that there are churches being built near the Oklahoma city building.
‘islam’ didnt attack america, a group of radicals did.
damn…
umm… wow…
this is like complaining that there are churches being built near the Oklahoma city building.
‘islam’ didnt attack america, a group of radicals did.
damn…
I don’t think that analogy makes sense for a variety of reasons.
Regardless, I am willing to concede that the anti-Mosque attitude is decidedly redneck/jingoist in nature.
However I think the term “radical” could apply to any Muslim who is actually following the Qu’ran, no?
[reply]umm… wow…
this is like complaining that there are churches being built near the Oklahoma city building.
‘islam’ didnt attack america, a group of radicals did.
damn…
I don’t think that analogy makes sense for a variety of reasons.
Regardless, I am willing to concede that the anti-Mosque attitude is decidedly redneck/jingoist in nature.
However I think the term “radical” could apply to any Muslim who is actually following the Qu’ran, no?[/reply]
pft, same goes for the christians and jews who follow the bible/torah.
The Ground Zero Mosque is neither on Ground Zero nor a mosque.
Yet fucking idiots protest it regardless.
exactly. it was a community centre a few BLOCKS away from “ground zero”. [crazy]
[reply]umm… wow…
this is like complaining that there are churches being built near the Oklahoma city building.
‘islam’ didnt attack america, a group of radicals did.
damn…
I don’t think that analogy makes sense for a variety of reasons.
Regardless, I am willing to concede that the anti-Mosque attitude is decidedly redneck/jingoist in nature.
However I think the term “radical” could apply to any Muslim who is actually following the Qu’ran, no?[/reply]
and please explain to me how that analogy doesn’t make sense.
The analogy made perfect sense.
pft, same goes for the christians and jews who follow the bible/torah.
Yes. I never denied that. I think all of the “big 3” religions are horse shit. Islam is especially disgusting though (honor killings, repression of women blah blah) It’s violent and repressive by design IMO.
and please explain to me how that analogy doesn’t make sense.
It doesn’t make sense because:
Timothy McVeigh was not a hardcore Christian and his motivations were not explicitly tied to religion, even by rhetoric, as was the case with the perpetrators of 9/11
Christianity was/is not viewed as a kind of alien culture to America the way Islam was/is viewed by most Americans post 9/11. It is the dominant religious culture in America.
Christianity as a culture/religion has not been clashing with Western ideals and been associated with terrorist threats/attacks on Western soil and territorial disputes as has Islam in recent decades.
I’m not saying this is right or wrong. I’m just saying the analogy was pretty bad because most people can’t see past this stuff.
[reply]
and please explain to me how that analogy doesn’t make sense.
It doesn’t make sense because:
Timothy McVeigh was not a hardcore Christian and his motivations were not explicitly tied to religion, even by rhetoric, as was the case with the perpetrators of 9/11
Christianity was/is not viewed as a kind of alien culture the way Islam was/is viewed by most Americans post 9/11. It is the dominant religious culture in America.
For instance, because Christianity is the dominant culture, the fact that the Virginia Tech kook was obsessed with Jesus and all kinds of Biblical nonsense was completely overlooked by the media when pointing fingers.
Now if that guy had been a member of a minority faith which is alien to most Americans such as, say, Scientology, and had gone spouting off about his faith in conjunction with the murders, that faith would then be associated with the murders in the minds of the public. And yes people would protest a center of Scientology near the Virginia Tech campus.
You have to understand I’m not agreeing with this mentality. It’s all rather silly. I’m just saying this is what causes it to make sense to some Americans that a mosque is not ok near Ground Zero yet a church is ok near the Oklahoma City building.
And therefore that’s why in my opinion the analogy was not a good one (most analogies really aren’t, and they are in my opinion a bad way of arguing a point anyway).[/reply]
this is true. i stand corrected. i guess i kinda felt you were attacking islam. coming from a muslim backround, i tend to get overprotective (even though i don’t believe in a god).
either way, they were building a COMMUNITY CENTER which was a few BLOCKS away from “ground zero”. what’s next? no mosques allowed in new york? how far away does it have to be for it to be “acceptable”?
The analogy is apt because those muslim people are not connected with the muslim faith as it is normally practiced so there extremeism is in no way representitive of the muslim faith. The same way that mcveighs christian views are not represented by normal christian views
By you saying that christianity doesn’t have problems with the western culture the way muslims do is still demonizing muslim culture because you are still recognizing only the extremist sect of that faith.
Mcveigh need not be a religous extremeist because his actions didn’t represent normal chrisitanity just the way normal muslims don’t represent 9/11.
You want christianity and western civ at odds how about fred phelps? How about that dickhead that wanted to burn the korab on 9/11
Late,
grmpysmrf
No, it’s not a great analogy.
A better analogy would be the Olympic bomber, who was a religious extremist protesting abortion.
9/11 bombers hated our freedom (just ask w) our freedom is based on our government. Tim mcveigh hated our government fits to me
Late,
grmpysmrf
Wow that was fucking entertaining! I say build it. Perhaps it will lead to more chaos. Perhaps a bunch of angry new yorkers will riot and burn this place once it’s built. Oh wait, it will most likely be built with stone.
In all seriousness I do find this funny. I’ve got a step uncle from pakistan too. I can’t remember if being muslim is believing in islam but I can’t totally believe that they’d do this. It’s not offending me by any means, but like the guy said there’s other mosques in nyc. Why does there need to be more? It’d be the same with building another church for christians or catholics, bc we don’t need anymore churches and nyc doesn’t need another mosque if there’s already a bunch. Idk if there really are a lot of them in nyc, but if this is gonna offend white patriotic americans(or any other color for that matter) then why do it?
But I guess I should stand by my initial answer and say build it. I’d love to know of a riot going on in this country
Lord of lard already pointed out it’s NOT a mosque it’s a community center. Most who are against the center are ignorrant of this fact. But I spose it doesn’t matter anyway they would be anti muslim anything.
Late,
grmpysmrf