Get back In The Ring you two.
It’s true, Olsen.
I honestly don’t care that you have a boner for Grumps or vice versa. But whenever someone starts rattling off price tags and pay stubs and such I have a really hard time hearing anything else about them as my ears start hurting from the blaring Shithead Alarm going off.
I can vouch that he’s no Shithead.
In all fairness to Olsen, I have found him to be quite the cool bro in my dealings with him off the board. Maybe he shouldn’t have shot his mouth off like that but personally I take it that he was just rubbing Grmpy’s nose in the fact that he keeps getting singled out as a “spoon fed, useless rich kid and all-round layabout”.
Which, if you were to meet him, you would know is untrue. I feel that his frustration stems from the fact that he is so blatantly ignored on this forum - which I personally have noticed for years now. At least I’m guessing that’s the reason for his fits and spasms as of late.
Olsen’s finances are a matter for him and him only - personally I don’t give a shit about his bank balance or the car he drives as long as he conducts himself with dignity and remains a true friend. Which he does and we have spent many evenings together hanging out, listening to music and shooting the breeze.
Which is all I could ask for.
He also has a kickass record collection that made me wet my pants the first time I laid eyes on it.
He’s no dickweed. And if we were somehow all to meet up one day in the distant futre he’d also probably buy you a drink and have a chuckle about it.
I was only saying how comments such as I reacted to can come across to people (like myself) who don’t give a rat’s ass how much money someone makes or what they have. I think (and hope) that many of us were taught that such behaviour is crass.
My apologies to him if I missed some point of brilliant point of sarcasm during his and Smurf’s tickle fight, but I’ve seen Olsen play that card before and it always rubs me the wrong way (regardless of who the intended audience is). In fairness to him, he was shut down when he did it before and it hadn’t been a persistent thing since. And Grumpy can bring out a wide rainbow of colors in people that aren’t always displayed on a daily basis.
As for ignoring him – I don’t know if anyone else does it intentionally, but I kind of doubt it. I’ve never ignored him or anyone for that matter (unless we’re talking about a particularly disgusting creep who bragged about getting pukeraped by the great Al Jourgensen in a Motel 6 bathroom, but that’s completely another matter). With anyone, we respond to what we find interesting to us for the most part. If Jay_Cartoon has something to say about Clint Eastwood or Smokey and the Bandit you can be sure I’ll have a counterpoint. But I think Olsen is into such obscure music and such (which is great, really) that no one has any comment good or bad. It’s just kind of foreign.
Anyway, that’s it. I’m sure your buddy is a terrific guy off court. I don’t know anyone ('cept Grumpy, perhaps) who would care enough to argue or think otherwise. But most of us here know most of the members on-court only, so if we call someone a dickhead that’s really as far as those implications go . . . That a particular comment or collection of comments is making someone appear dickheadish to the readers of this great forum.
Carry on . . .
As for ignoring him – I don’t know if anyone else does it intentionally, but I kind of doubt it. I’ve never ignored him or anyone for that matter (unless we’re talking about a particularly disgusting creep who bragged about getting pukeraped by the great Al Jourgensen in a Motel 6 bathroom, but that’s completely another matter).
Wow…looks like I haven’t yet mined the discussion archives for all the ‘hidden gems’, huh? Someone will have to give me the ‘Cliff’s Notes’ version of this character’s board involvement.
But I think Olsen is into such obscure music and such (which is great, really) that no one has any comment good or bad. It’s just kind of foreign.
I’m also ‘guilty as charged’ with music tastes from beyond.
I think there’s often a misconception, though, that if somebody posts some alien entities in “what are you listening to now” or wherever, that that’s done for “one-upmanship” or to establish some pecking order of credibility. It can feel that way if there’s no other commentary added to the listings, but it’s my experience with fans of obscure music that they really want others to enjoy and benefit from it. The snobs and geeks in this underground music culture - the ones who want others to know they have obscure tastes but don’t want anyone else to genuinely listen to the shit - are the minority. They may be the same people who are the most vocal and dedicate the most ‘column inches’ to the subject, though.
That’s true. And though we might sometimes make jokes about them wanting some elitist hipster status, I don’t know if anyone really feels that that’s where such members are coming from. And when I’ve made an effort to try some beloved experimental artist or genre or theirs they seem to truly appreciate both my feedback and willingness to try it (despite me usually not caring for it).
Grumpy is probably more open than I am, to be honest. He’s even bought full LP’s and such because “Peligro said this guy was brilliant so I figured I’d give it a try”. I have to really force myself to go past a 30 second sample before throwing in the towel.
What I meant about people not answering his (or others’) posts on obscure/ challenging music was not that they’re sidelining his input or dissing him, but that we truly have NOTHING to say about the topic. Not nearly as obscure or avant-garde, but I get the same thing when I try to find people on various boards to discuss Rigor Mortis.
What I meant about people not answering his (or others’) posts on obscure/ challenging music was not that they’re sidelining his input or dissing him, but that we truly have NOTHING to say about the topic. Not nearly as obscure or avant-garde, but I get the same thing when I try to find people on various boards to discuss Rigor Mortis.
I used to be one of those who would take that silence as a challenge and just keep proselytizing, but I don’t do that anymore…I lost too many potential allies by assuming their music taste was the whole of their personality.
I have to admit that, beyond the ‘culture snob’ angle, people also aren’t willing to get into (just two of the more “popular” examples) Nurse with Wound or Merzbow because they feel that’s going to put them in a social circle of people with tons of neuroses and psychological ‘issues.’ That, too, I’ve found to be mostly untrue…I know some of the (again, scare-quote marks are required) “bigger” names in the sound arts underground, and find them to have healthier and more fully-integrated lifestyles than a good deal of their “normal” peers. Generally, these are folks who passionately throw themselves into something with absolutely no promise of financial or social reward, and that passion itself usually speaks to a healthy lust for life.
There’s one disappointing thing in this subculture that I do find a lot of, though, and that’s people with an irrational anxiety about appearing to be “normal” or unexceptional in ANY way. In every North American city I’ve inhabited, I’ve encountered bands / promoters / all-purpose artists who have this massive phobia that the public will realize they have parental support for their activities. It gets truly ridiculous sometimes, like a couple Toronto friends who tried to make me believe they could afford some cavernous loft there on two bookstore clerks’ wages. As if admitting to help from anything other than the “scene” would cause them to be seen as traitors or whatever.
Grumpy is probably more open than I am, to be honest. He’s even bought full LP’s and such because “Peligro said this guy was brilliant so I figured I’d give it a try”. [/quote]
Yeah, pretty much. I like Peligro and have come to look forward to his posts. (unlike me, probably) He’s lightened up a bunch over the years and doesn’t get nearly as angry as he used to and even though we sometimes go rounds I’m sad when he goes into hibernation.
So, now that dick sucking aside, our music tastes are even farther apart than our politics. So, far he’s recommended me 2 1/2 decent records out of four attempts (Well, four that I’ve bought). His first rec was a hit with Jesu’s Silver (I actually bought it as a joke and a slight against him cause it was like 3 dollars at the record store “I’ll break a 5 to mock this stupid band.”). The next rec I took was Mind Control for infants 1/2 way cool reminds me of an old west horror story with the atmosphere it creates but it gets old quick. grouper was the next solid rec. but then Fennesz Endless Summer was horrifically bad. Like I thought I had accidentally played a data disc in the cd player, bad. And earth was almost as bad. At one point in the car I had to look down to see if I had left my blinker on. Which, ok, whatever, but that sound went on so long I kept checking to see if the blinker was on even though I knew it was the “music.” I just turned it of and tried again at home… Once at home I had to go out to the garage to see if I had left the car’s blinker on. No not really but it was still just as bad.
[reply]What I meant about people not answering his (or others’) posts on obscure/ challenging music was not that they’re sidelining his input or dissing him, but that we truly have NOTHING to say about the topic.
Yeah, I’m a dick, but I wasn’t even talking about his “more obscure record collection than you” posts. I mean nobody posts to him. I really can’t recall where anybody has had any kind of dialogue with him. He claims to be the voice of the forum and telling me how “everybody hates my posts and my opinions” but nobody gets his back. nobody shows support (Not that it would matter if they did, but it’s just the point of the thing). Not only that nobody even casually comments or converses with him on anything…
Not nearly as obscure or avant-garde, but I get the same thing when I try to find people on various boards to discuss Rigor Mortis.
Fortunately for you (and us too, I suppose) there is more to you than just Rigor Mortis
[reply]
As for ignoring him – I don’t know if anyone else does it intentionally, but I kind of doubt it. I’ve never ignored him or anyone for that matter (unless we’re talking about a particularly disgusting creep who bragged about getting pukeraped by the great Al Jourgensen in a Motel 6 bathroom, but that’s completely another matter).
Wow…looks like I haven’t yet mined the discussion archives for all the ‘hidden gems’, huh? Someone will have to give me the ‘Cliff’s Notes’ version of this character’s board involvement.[/reply]
Ha Ha some of them went on for many pages. One of my favorites was when he actually typed a line like he was leading a mob or something “come on everybody let’s shut this guy down for good!!” needless to say, crickets. but whenever he shows up that’s usually what I think when i see his avatar that and “grmpy will be the downfall of prongs” or some such nonsense… I get a chuckle out of it.
you should check out the “tonight I meet my bride” thread. brilliant. You’ll see Olsen make an appearance out of no where. (and gets ignored by everyone!) While I get bullied by like five people about being the bully I’m not. Needless to say I “won.” [laugh]
it’s my experience with fans of obscure music that they really want others to enjoy and benefit from it.[/quote]
That’s how I think Davely bob is here (It’s you that is into noise right davely? you’re friends with a noise band?) and an old poster who hasn’t been here in a while “Evil Dildo” and for the most part Peligro, Although I think Peligro still kinda geeks out some times on some of the obscure stuff he has. but why not? Even still I’m sure he’d be thrilled if someone dug his tastes… He recommended me Fennesz. Obviously an olive branch of sorts.
[reply]The snobs and geeks in this underground music culture - the ones who want others to know they have obscure tastes but don’t want anyone else to genuinely listen to the shit - are the minority
This is pretty much Olsen. Anything not obscure is unlistenable shit hick bands. “hyuck hyuck hyuck.”
…but then Fennesz Endless Summer was horrifically bad. Like I thought I had accidentally played a data disc in the cd player, bad.
Now you’re just talking nonsense. Utter nonsense. Musical taste is one thing but sheer ignorance is another. If you listen to a renowned (not just by me btw) album like Endless Summer and all you hear is “noise” then I give up and will most likely never recommend another. That’s just unbelievable.
OK, maybe “ignorance” is way too harsh. But that’s the kind of comment I would expect from some halfwit pop loving moron - not someone like you. You’ve been exposed to enough music on this board to have more discerning tastes than any run of the mill suburban pleb.
But still, I will not let it come between us. Until the day comes that I cain’t stands it no more and I aisks you to get in the ring toot sweet, honky!
And for anyone here who has no idea what I’m talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yARlaCiMbSk&list=PLJeGG6kr0oVrNIXFtPmXVMVjzLZzWQ95y
Funny you should mention Endless Summer btw, as it was the first album I ever recommended Olsen when he first joined the board. He loved it and soon after became pen pals.
And earth was almost as bad. At one point in the car I had to look down to see if I had left my blinker on. Which, ok, whatever, but that sound went on so long I kept checking to see if the blinker was on even though I knew it was the “music.” I just turned it of and tried again at home…
You see, now that…is almost as unforgiveable.
I mean nobody posts to him. I really can’t recall where anybody has had any kind of dialogue with him. He claims to be the voice of the forum and telling me how “everybody hates my posts and my opinions” but nobody gets his back. nobody shows support (Not that it would matter if they did, but it’s just the point of the thing). Not only that nobody even casually comments or converses with him on anything…
I have only ever had ONE conversation about this board with Olsen (it generally never comes up in conversation). I asked him why he posted so infrequently and his response was more or less what you said - that nobody bothers with him here and that he is always ignored or put down during discussion. He seemed to think that he had “gotten on the wrong side of a few of the board leaders” somehow and that he was being given the cold shoulder.
I said I didn’t know what to make of it and that he should probably give it some time.
I have only ever had ONE conversation about this board with Olsen (it generally never comes up in conversation). I asked him why he posted so infrequently and his response was more or less what you said - that nobody bothers with him here and that he is always ignored or put down during discussion. He seemed to think that he had “gotten on the wrong side of a few of the board leaders” somehow and that he was being given the cold shoulder.
I said I didn’t know what to make of it and that he should probably give it some time.
Grumpy has no problem openly expressing his feelings about Olsen but I’ve never observed anyone else “on the wrong side” of Olsen. I really don’t think there’s any conscious exclusion going on or anything.
But I’ve already gone on record as saying my lack of response has to do with my apathy to the subject matter, so it really doesn’t matter to me anyway. I hope he doesn’t actually take such stupid online dramas to heart.
[reply]
I have only ever had ONE conversation about this board with Olsen (it generally never comes up in conversation). I asked him why he posted so infrequently and his response was more or less what you said - that nobody bothers with him here and that he is always ignored or put down during discussion. He seemed to think that he had “gotten on the wrong side of a few of the board leaders” somehow and that he was being given the cold shoulder.
I said I didn’t know what to make of it and that he should probably give it some time.
Grumpy has no problem openly expressing his feelings about Olsen [/quote]
I really don’t think I ever start it with Olsen. For example the last real exchanges Olsen and I had was not to long ago when he finally gave credit to the other people that helped him get that lumber mill into the green. I thought things were ok. But then he showed up and was a Bitch to Connelly For no reason. I stuck up for Connelly cause his attack was unwarranted and just straight out rude. There was a little back and forth but then He went away for a few days and then came right back with an attack on me in the Cobain thread, for no reason. So, yeah, He wants to go rounds, I’ll take shots at him in other threads… (Yes I went the “he starts it” rout) I’ll finish what he starts.
but I’ve never observed anyone else “on the wrong side” of Olsen.
I don’t know, I don’t think he made any friends in that “9 to 5” thread. He pretty much shit on anyone and everyone who wasn’t rich. Even took a run at taxi drivers. He was in really rare form that thread.
I really don’t think there’s any conscious exclusion going on or anything.
I do believe this. I don’t hate the guy, I just think when we get into it he really is what he accuses me of. I really don’t care if people agree with me or not and I’m fine to argue till I’m blue in the face, Yes I would love to sway some people with my opinions and I obviously think my opinion is worth more than gold (except when I’m arguing just to argue) but at the end of the day if you don’t think I’m right, that’s your opinion, so what?! support your opinion, otherwise what’s the point of having an opinion? If you can’t support your opinion don’t get mad at me for your shortcomings. It’s not my fault you haven’t thought it out.
I hope he doesn’t actually take such stupid online dramas to heart.
i think he does. Look how angry he gets.
It’s Ironic that he thinks I’m an asshole because he thinks I leave no room for anyone else to have an opinion. But thinks that business model is perfectly acceptable.
Olsen: “grmpysmrf leaves no room for anyone else to have and opinion and that’s unfair.”
grmpysmrf’s opinion: Hyper capitalism as it is now leaves no room for competition and is unfair.
Olsen: “grmpysmrf is a stupid liberal communist and he just wants to hand everything to the poor. WORK HARDER.”
So, recap. If it’s an opinion that you wield like the current state of capitalism you’re an asshole.
But if you hold people’s livlihoods, pensions, unions, business’s, paychecks, retirements, in such a an unfair manner (like grmpy’s opinions) your a good capitalist.
Strong Unwavering opinions = Bad
Strong unfair business practices = Good
Yeah. I’m a noise dude. Consuming AND Producing.
Now you’re just talking nonsense. Utter nonsense. Musical taste is one thing but sheer ignorance is another. If you listen to a renowned (not just by me btw) album like Endless Summer and all you hear is “noise” then I give up and will most likely never recommend another. That’s just unbelievable.
I think the thing here is that grmpy’s defining “noise” by the subjective criteria of “unpleasant / irritating sound.”
I prefer the ‘information theory’ definition of noise which is more like “data [not exclusively audible data] that doesn’t communicate a meaning.”
And that’s why I’m wary of calling anything “noise” unless it seems to communicate nothing at all, and it’s completely up to me to try and impose some meaning on all the raging chaos. Of course, that’s part of the reason people embrace “noise” in the first place, since it’s a kind of ‘Rorschach blot’ audio out of which new forms arise that you hadn’t conceived of earlier.
All this said, there’s definite melodic content in Fennesz (particularly on that album we’re debating), and it sure as shootin’ seems like it’s trying to communicate emotional impressions if not some specific event in the composer’s life. The melodies are chopped and scattered, ‘fucked with’ and made to be asynchronous with one another, but through all that I still don’t think they stop communicating this emotional state.
“Noise” when done with conviction is near and dear to me, but it fulfills a different purpose for me than music: I don’t try to make the two compete. And I’m not some crabby militant who calls for the death of tonal music because the meaningless of noise is ethically superior or something (though I get to do plenty of apologizing for people who do believe that…)
I don’t know where the line between “noise” and “music” is drawn, but I can understand and appreciate a fair amount of “experimental” music (for lack of a better term). NON (Boyd Rice) was always interesting to me, as was Throbbing Gristle and a handful of other contemporaries of the day.
And I like the live performance/ confrontational aspect of much of that genre. I never got to witness it in person, but reading about how TG would deliberately exploit the audience and their perception and emotions by blaring painful frequencies, obnoxious lighting, etc. I like that.
But, yeah, there’s also a good deal that I just don’t “get” and sometimes (I think Grumps might back me on this) I have serious doubt of whether anything actually does exist there to get in the first place. I do often feel that there’s an “emperor’s clothes” type of thing going on where so-called aficionados of this stuff are too scared to admit the vacuous nature of much of it.
But, yeah, there’s also a good deal that I just don’t “get” and sometimes (I think Grumps might back me on this) I have serious doubt of whether anything actually does exist there to get in the first place. I do often feel that there’s an “emperor’s clothes” type of thing going on where so-called aficionados of this stuff are too scared to admit the vacuous nature of much of it.
Oh yeah, ive got yer back. I think ive even posted as much about the emperor not wearing any clothes. Although, i do like tomasz’s point of the audio rorshac test. Certainly a different angle worth approaching it at. I may thow it in again and give it another shot. I doubt much will change by way of my opinion but im willing to give it a shot.
I just saw fuckin’ Slayer live (yet again). Tomorrow night i see fuckin’ Slayer live (yet again). The next night i see Anthrax live (yet again). It is a good week. An exhausting, ear-wrecking week, but a good week.
I would’ve liked to have seen Slayer last year since they played a chunk of Show No Mercy. I pretty much vowed to never see them again after '09.
I would’ve liked to have seen Slayer last year since they played a chunk of Show No Mercy. I pretty much vowed to never see them again after '09.
I think they didn’t play anything after 1990 tonight, a few real early tracks, you would have liked it.
I don’t know where the line between “noise” and “music” is drawn, but I can understand and appreciate a fair amount of “experimental” music (for lack of a better term). NON (Boyd Rice) was always interesting to me, as was Throbbing Gristle and a handful of other contemporaries of the day.
“Experimental” itself is another goofy term, primarily because people have gotten lazy with it and just use it to refer to stuff which they feel is different from some prevailing norm or another.
One argument is that ALL music is ‘experimental’ in the sense that, like any other type of experiment, you’re conducting it without advance knowledge of the exact results. You may have a pretty good idea that, say, Miley Cyrus twerking jamz are going to appeal to a pretty lowest common denominator crowd, but putting that shit out there is still an experiment since nobody really knows how long that music will remain popular or what the potential backlash may be.
The experimental art I’m interested in is stuff that somehow makes you aware of, or reminds you of, exactly how you perceive and how you assemble your own reality. These precious little micro-political statement pieces such as: “I took a ‘selfie’ a day for a year to illustrate the narcissism of our society” are intolerable crap to me, and disgraceful to people who really make experimental art in order to discover some hidden truth.
Anyway that may be something we both enjoy about TG, NON, SPK / the original “Industrial” culture. It was a kind of psychic research as well as just being an extreme form of entertainment.
But, yeah, there’s also a good deal that I just don’t “get” and sometimes (I think Grumps might back me on this) I have serious doubt of whether anything actually does exist there to get in the first place. I do often feel that there’s an “emperor’s clothes” type of thing going on where so-called aficionados of this stuff are too scared to admit the vacuous nature of much of it.
Having been around these sorts of people for years (I also worked at Chicago’s Museum of Contemporary Art for a while) I’m depressingly familiar with the seasonal updates of the Emperor’s New Clothes. Even worse than the people who work in that mode, though, are the critics who pretend they can ‘translate’ all of this somehow, and who think gushing reviews of ‘x’ gallery show or poetry slam are going to help them get laid or make them into a moral authority.
And with that, back to fuckin’ Slayer.
[reply]I would’ve liked to have seen Slayer last year since they played a chunk of Show No Mercy. I pretty much vowed to never see them again after '09.
I think they didn’t play anything after 1990 tonight, a few real early tracks, you would have liked it.[/reply]
Awesome! I hope the States get a similar set next time. I would really love to hear all 4 tracks from Haunting The Chapel.