his favorite band is [url http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/one-ryans-favorite-bands-rages-agains]Rage Against The Machine
Late,
grmpysmrf
What, because RATM are liberals and disagree (likely) with everything Paul stands for?
So what? I’m not going to turn Muslim because I dig Cat Stevens, and just because I dig Megadeth doesn’t mean I think Obama planned the murders of 72 Batman fans. It is completely possible to like bands and music without giving a rat’s ass what their politics are.
Unless you just mean he’s stupid because he likes Rage Against the Machine . . . in which case, yeah, I totally agree.
What, because RATM are liberals and disagree (likely) with everything Paul stands for?
So what? I’m not going to turn Muslim because I dig Cat Stevens, and just because I dig Megadeth doesn’t mean I think Obama planned the murders of 72 Batman fans. It is completely possible to like bands and music without giving a rat’s ass what their politics are.
Unless you just mean he’s stupid because he likes Rage Against the Machine . . . in which case, yeah, I totally agree.
It would seem that Ryan likes the people that hate everything he stands for that’s stupid to me.
Mustain’s lyrics aren’t blatantly politically extreme in any one direction the way rages are.
Late,
grmpysmrf
It would seem that Ryan likes the people that hate everything he stands for that’s stupid to me.
I don’t think so. To me it shows a guy that freely makes his own choices instead of thinking he has to like this or that because everything needs to line up with some stupid ideology.
Do you choose to like or dislike bands or artists just because they think differently than you or preach contrary to your values?
I’m not saying any of this as a Paul Ryan supporter (I really don’t know much about the guy and am quite ambivalent).
And if it has to be in line with his views or platforms, what would he have to choose from anyway? Ted Nugent and Toby Keith?
“who’s paul ryan?”
is what americans will be saying this time next year.
I hardly knew who he was, not paying attention to the elections this time around.
To me it shows a guy that freely makes his own choices instead of thinking he has to like this or that because everything needs to line up with some stupid ideology.
This.
Napalm Death are hard-core capitalist hating, crusty, lefty socialists who bang on about anything and everything that is heaped upon the “poor old” blue collar worker (sob sob) and how “unfair” society in general is for people who don’t have money.
Yet I love them and routinely buy their albums when they are released. Ditto Killing Joke.
I don’t give a shit about their “stance” (pffft) but I will defend their right to voice their opinion and continue to enjoy their musical output for as long as possible as it holds so many good memories for me.
In the long run, that’s all that really matters - the music.
Also, for the record, I don’t know who Paul Ryan is.
Also, for the record, Rage Against The Machine are ghey.
[reply] To me it shows a guy that freely makes his own choices instead of thinking he has to like this or that because everything needs to line up with some stupid ideology.
This.
Napalm Death are hard-core capitalist hating, crusty, lefty socialists who bang on about anything and everything that is heaped upon the “poor old” blue collar worker (sob sob) and how “unfair” society in general is for people who don’t have money.
Yet I love them and routinely buy their albums when they are released. Ditto Killing Joke.
I don’t give a shit about their “stance” (pffft) but I will defend their right to voice their opinion and continue to enjoy their musical output for as long as possible as it holds so many good memories for me.
In the long run, that’s all that really matters - the music.
Also, for the record, I don’t know who Paul Ryan is.
Also, for the record, Rage Against The Machine are ghey.[/reply]
All this kind of reasoning smacks of that old mid 1940s campaign… Jews for Hitler.
Late,
grmpysmrf
All this kind of reasoning smacks of that old mid 1940s campaign… Jews for Hitler.
Late,
grmpysmrf
What the heck are you smoking, Grumps?
Could you be any more irrellevant?
Both Peligro and I are saying that TO US (and to most rational people) what political views a particular band or artist holds are TO US (and to most rational people) completely inconsequential and has no bearing on whether we find their ART enjoyable or not.
We are also noting that just because we like someone’s ART does not mean that we either accept or support their beliefs that may be either contained therein or fueling the creative process. Furthermore, while Peligro and I disagree with the underlying ideologies of many of the musicians we may appreciate we are not threatened by their voicing thereof or disagree with their right to speak thusly.
You’re gonna have to impress us with YOUR reasoning for that comparison or just admit that you threw out a non-sequitor Hitler comparison for shock value.
You’re gonna have to impress us with YOUR reasoning for that comparison or just admit that you threw out a non-sequitor Hitler comparison for shock value.
I’m of the mindset that if an artist sings constantly about killing the poor for real, hanging black people, euthanizing old people, taking back America from the dirty minorities. Then I don’t care how catchy their sound is I will refuse to listen to it. I couldn’t listen to it. Let alone buy it.
I make the comparison about Jews for Hitler because much in the same way Jews would celebrate Hitler is the same way Paul Ryan would endorse someone or some people railing against him. Or others accepting some peace of merchandise that goes full tilt counter productive to what you believe.
Zach De La Rocha has already come out in favor of executing the GOP all the way up to bush and cheney for war crimes… “but I like Rage Against the Machine.”
Late,
grmpysmrf
See you in another 6 months or maybe never.
You will be missed. be missed about as much as you were prior.
Sorry your Fox programming hasn’t prepared you for more than the shallow end of discussion.
good day
Late,
grmpysmrf
I’m of the mindset that if an artist sings constantly about killing the poor for real, hanging black people, euthanizing old people, taking back America from the dirty minorities. Then I don’t care how catchy their sound is I will refuse to listen to it. I couldn’t listen to it. Let alone buy it.
Well, yeah, I think a LOT of people might have a problem with that. You just fabricated an extreme and completely imaginary example to prove a point that had no rational reason to begin with.
I’m quite certain (if I cared to) I could pick through your music collection and find something that you liked that didn’t represent your specific ideology or belief set.
I make the comparison about Jews for Hitler because much in the same way Jews would celebrate Hitler is the same way Paul Ryan would endorse someone or some people railing against him. Or others accepting some peace of merchandise that goes full tilt counter productive to what you believe.
Zach De La Rocha has already come out in favor of executing the GOP all the way up to bush and cheney for war crimes… “but I like Rage Against the Machine.”
Late,
grmpysmrf
First off, as I mentioned you’re trying to use a political example (persecuted people supporting their persecutors) to rationalize your inability to understand that people can appreciate ART by those of different beliefs. One really has nothing to do with the other.
And isn’t this a stupid example to get on anyway considering your prior insistence that liberals are never violent? Now you say that RATM support EXECUTION of conservatives? Previously, when presented with such a challenge you just conveniently said that those people, by default, weren’t liberals. What’s going to be your convenient loophole of the moment this time?
Because if you decide to all of a sudden say that RATM are “conservative” because of their radical intolerance and proposal of violence then you pretty much just rendered all of your arguments now and in the past completely invalid.
I’ve been weighing in on this issue on Facebook with a couple of friends of mine, and I’ve come to the following conclusions:
-
Anyone here go to a RATM concert in the 90s? A lot of stupid, aggressive frat brothers in the audience. I’d say they comprised the majority. There’s yer Paul Ryan, right there.
-
Tom Morello forfeited the right to complain about anything in the political sphere the minute he let RATM dissolve (right around the time Bush became President) and formed Audioslave.
[reply][reply]See you in another 6 months or maybe never.
You will be missed. be missed about as much as you were prior.
Sorry your Fox programming hasn’t prepared you for more than the shallow end of discussion.
good day
Late,
grmpysmrf[/reply]
I do find it amusing that you got ripped off by the hoi polloi down the street. A bunch of section 8ers move in the neighborhood and they rob the resident lefty who defends their subsidies. Don’t lose your firm grip on the government teat. And with that I bid you a good evening.[/reply]
Changing the subject like usual… If they got enough subsidies they wouldn’t have to rob and steal would they, smart guy? I suppose you’ll return when hannity tells you what to think and how to respond. You’re the problem, stupid, not them. You cut off access to even more basic needs you’re gonna see more of this. Keep voting your greed you retard… It’s worked out so well for Michigan hasn’t it? Get a clue.
Late,
grmpysmrf
edit cause i wrote this first on my phone and fucked up the formatting and second because the fix text was on…
[reply]I’m of the mindset that if an artist sings constantly about killing the poor for real, hanging black people, euthanizing old people, taking back America from the dirty minorities. Then I don’t care how catchy their sound is I will refuse to listen to it. I couldn’t listen to it. Let alone buy it.
Well, yeah, I think a LOT of people might have a problem with that. You just fabricated an extreme and completely imaginary example to prove a point that had no rational reason to begin with.
[/reply]
That is the comparison, RATM is staunch one way and Paul Ryan is staunch the other way, it doesn’t take a leap of understanding to see the comparison.
I’m quite certain (if I cared to) I could pick through your music collection and find something that you liked that didn’t represent your specific ideology or belief set.
Perhaps, but not on the discrepancy level that is Ryan and RATM.
those are two equal opposites… Much like Jews and nazis. Ratm are the Jews Ryan is clearly the fascist nazi
[reply]I make the comparison about Jews for Hitler because much in the same way Jews would celebrate Hitler is the same way Paul Ryan would endorse someone or some people railing against him, or others accepting some piece of merchandise that goes full tilt counter productive to what they believe.
First off, as I mentioned you’re trying to use a political example (persecuted people supporting their persecutors) to rationalize your inability to understand that people can appreciate ART by those of different beliefs. One really has nothing to do with the other.
[/reply]
I disagree, certainly rage has an agenda, so I would argue their art is their agenda. How does one like the art but not their agenda when their agenda is their art.?
And isn’t this a stupid example to get on anyway considering your prior insistence that liberals are never violent? Now you say that RATM support EXECUTION of conservatives? Previously, when presented with such a challenge you just conveniently said that those people, by default, weren’t liberals. What’s going to be your convenient loophole of the moment this time?
Because if you decide to all of a sudden say that RATM are “conservative” because of their radical intolerance and proposal of violence then you pretty much just rendered all of your arguments now and in the past completely invalid.
I said that he said, executed for war crimes, not lynched out in the street. That means taken to court and when found guilty, executed. I’m pro death penalty in certain situations. you can’t be ALL one way then you’re a robot but you can try to stay within your own ethics.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Changing the subject like usual… If they got enough subsidies they wouldn’t have to rob and steal would they, smart guy?
Come on, Grumps! Saying that people stealing is a function of crappy conservative policy kind of justifies their actions. I mean, it’s those dang Republicans that are to blame for your missing gas, right?
BULLCRAP!!! While it is certainly undeniable that crime increases when financial conditions (whether self-imposed or functions of supposed outside forces) degrade, it is hypocritical to ask for vengeance against thieves if you think they’re just victims of a corrupt and oppressive system.
And this also really cheapens the honest perseverance and success of decent hardworking poor people . . . because MOST do choose NOT TO BE LOWLIFE CRIMINAL BASTARDS and work hard to provide for themselves and/or their families.
In general, people commit crime because they are a-holes. They’ll still be a-holes and look for opportunities to victimize others whether or not you decide to pay for their rent and food. And I’m not saying this as an argument for abolishment of welfare. I’m just saying that people need to take responsibility for their own lives. If you feel different, don’t complain about the bastards that steal your gas.
[reply]
Changing the subject like usual… If they got enough subsidies they wouldn’t have to rob and steal would they, smart guy?
Come on, Grumps! Saying that people stealing is a function of crappy conservative policy kind of justifies their actions.
[/reply]
not really, nobody forced their hand. just because you are a victim doesn’t mean you have to act like one.
I mean, it’s those dang Republicans that are to blame for your missing gas, right?
the policies and the agenda their pushing and have put into place don’t help but ultimately it’s the choice of the thief. it’s a double edged sword. if the income inequality wasn’t so ridiculous and the price of gas so ridiculous would my truck have been vandalized? probably not but the scene has been set by one side for the other to act. that doesn’t mean losing side has to act.
BULLCRAP!!! While it is certainly undeniable that crime increases when financial conditions (whether self-imposed or functions of supposed outside forces) degrade,
How can you yell bullcrap and then in the very same breath agree that crime increases when finances in the country tighten?
it is hypocritical to ask for vengeance against thieves if you think they’re just victims of a corrupt and oppressive system.
Not really, there are other alternatives than thievery and vandalism in response to a corrupt and oppressive system. nobody forces them to be thieves… I understand why they do it but it doesn’t mean I agree with it. kinda like OJ. I’m not saying he should have killed her but I understand (Chris Rock)
And this also really cheapens the honest perseverance and success of decent hardworking poor people . . . because MOST do choose NOT TO BE LOWLIFE CRIMINAL BASTARDS and work hard to provide for themselves and/or their families.
What cheapens the hard working honest poor? I am not quite sure where your response comes from 'cause just 'cause you’re poor doesn’t mean your a criminal, rich fuckers steal all the time.
In general, people commit crime because they are a-holes.
and why are they A-holes? just born that way huh?
They’ll still be a-holes and look for opportunities to victimize others whether or not you decide to pay for their rent and food.
I’m of the opinion that there will be more assholes if we as a country will throw them out of work and then won’t even cover their basic necessities. they will feel justified in being assholes. doesn’t mean that they have to be but the opportunity will be greater for it
And I’m not saying this as an argument for abolishment of welfare.
I didn’t think you were.
I’m just saying that people need to take responsibility for their own lives.
I agree as well but I also think it’s really shitty that we live in a society that thinks turning their back on the downtrodden is ok which creates circumstances that make people people feel like being an asshole is justified.
If you feel different, don’t complain about the bastards that steal your gas.
It’s not a one or the other situation.
Late.
grmpysmrf
How can you yell bullcrap and then in the very same breath agree that crime increases when finances in the country tighten?
My bad. Poor placement on my part. I didn’t mean that it was bullcrap that crime and poverty are related, I just meant that it’s bullcrap to justify one’s criminal choices because of the supposed crappy hand they were dealt.
Anyway, I don’t really want to talk politics especially on a topic that we likely agree more than disagree.
I’ll just go back to the initial topic . . . .
You think it’s either stupid or hypocritical for someone to like music that contains a message contrary to their personal convictions.
I don’t.
I’m fine with this.
I like Burzum. Even though he would probably (possibly? potentially?) condemn me for being a white guy with an asian girlfriend.
I like his music. Will listen to it ad nauseam. Would be annoyed if he moved in next door though.
It’s not like I want to meet the guy.
Or Napalm Death for that matter.
Suppose that’s all that needs to be said.
I hear both of you fellas. And I respect what you’re saying. And I think I would typically agree with you about Art and politics… (although, I think we’ve had the Burzum discussion before, Peligro)
You’re right, gunnar I do own 1 sober and Christian Mustain album. “The System Has Failed.” It’s a bad ass album, I like it a lot but the difference between Mustain and RATM is I think the political nature of their Art. Yes Mustain’s lyrics are politically charged but they are very generic and vague. If you didn’t know anything about Mustain’s beliefs you may even think he is a lefty.
With RATM there is no mistaking where they are at, they point fingers, Mustain doesn’t do that.
See, I think Ryan is stupid because as I said before RATM’s Politics is their art you can’t separate them because they are one and the same.
I’m ok with Mustain because he’s just some dude with an opinion, an opinion which I happen to think is wrong but he’s not actively campaigning his beliefs through his songs or trumpeting his bullshit through our “left wing media” like Nugent does. I’m still less likely to buy an album from him now now because of his personal politics but as you fellas said, that’s not going to keep me from liking his music as long as he stays pretty neutral in his lyrics.
Now, when it comes to Nugent and Burzum (although I’m only familiar with Burzum by name and legacy only) I know the Nuge doesn’t have politically charged lyrics but because I know he is the Bono of the right wing I refuse to listen to any of his “art” and would never like any of it because I know what ultimately is going to be done with the proceeds. so fuck him and his selfish bullshit.
same with Burzum, don’t know if his lyrics are politically charged or not but because I know he is such a white supremacist there is no way I could enjoy any of his music because I know what hes trying to do with it even if he’s not overtly singing about it.
When/if Mustain turns into the wingnut mouth piece that is Nugent then yeah, at that time I will cease any future listenings of anything new by Mustain and regard him as a retard dickhead who is not deserving of my attention let alone my $$
but what I don’t get is that RATM have been those “wingnut liberals” since the beginning. For ryan to like them would like barney frank listening to and loving Screwdriver (is that the famous right wing hate band?). I could just see it, Barney Frank singing a nice little ditty about how faggots and Jews should still be gassed.
Lol, so when Ryan sings along with killing in the name does he change the words over to “fuck me, he won’t do what I tell him.”?
Late,
grmpysmrf