call me devil’s advocate but i find it very interesting that obama has decided to not releases (at the last moment) the torture photos and yet no one thinks this is wrong but if the bush administration did this i’m sure we’d get a post here with the title “he’s doing it again…” or something similar.
i brought this up at my office and a girl there said something to the affect… “well, it’s because we trust him.”
Releasing the photos will only to more harm to the US’s already tarnished reputation overseas. Besides, it’s less effective to shine the spotlight on the torture sessions than it is to keep focused on Bush, Cheney, Gonzalez, Ashcroft and the heinous actions that they endorsed and ordered.
Honestly the Don’t Ask Don’t Tell policy works. I’ll tell you how. Not the best example, but when I was in military I had a division of 50+ dudes in one room. No one called anyone a homosexual, nor did anyone spend time to bother finding out. No one cared - because that wasn’t where focus was needed.
When you sign up for service, there is no question regarding sex in any form, except for what gender you are. There’s no discrimination, because it’s NOT RELEVANT. Try to pull off admitting you’re gay to a superior - they’ll just march you down to the records department to go over the Don’t Ask Don’t Tell policy, and march your ass back to your division.
Gay marriage is also irrelevant, and should be passed, considering marriage has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible.
The gay issue: it isn’t so simple when the living quarters that people in the military have are so cramped. Crawling out of my small rack on the ship I serve don and being face to face with some guy’s package wasn’t an uncommon thing. Male and female members don’t share quarters so why should straight/gay same sex people? Doesn’t make sense and until they figure it out I think the Don’t Ask Dont Tell policy is about as fair as you can be.
Are you saying that gay men, because of their orientation, are the same as women? Sharing quarters with someone who’s gay…who the hell would know, unless you got hit on by them (in which case, that person would get discharged)? I wouldn’t have cared who I shared space with when I was in, unless it was a woman - that’s like a wounded hyena in a crowd of wildebeests.
call me devil’s advocate but i find it very interesting that obama has decided to not releases (at the last moment) the torture photos and yet no one thinks this is wrong…
Don’t kid yourself, sir!! everyone thinks it’s wrong(Well the lefties, anyway, think it’s wrong) and I think Obama’s honeymoon is officially over with the media and those that are smiling on his presidency, if he doesn’t follow through. (which is bullshit in itself cause W got a 6 year honeymoon with the media and the drones that voted republican! but i’m for responsibility in government so obama should get the critical eye he deserves when he fucks up. )I know he’s lost a few points with me.
The only people that apparently don’t know the extent of the torture are the U.S. citizens, which is bullshit because it was done in our name, and we have a right to know what we, apparently, “endorsed”!!
As far as Cheney goes with his request for 2 pages out of thousands to be declassified FUCK HIM!! declassify ALL of it and well see how relevent those 2 specific pages are, in the grand scheme of things! Cheney knew damn well that the CIA would deny him before he even asked but he just set the stage for himself so he could say, “see I tried, government conspiacy…” Why didn’t he declassify when he was still VP and had the authority to do so? Fuckin’ Asshole!!
Finally, Gay marriage, and gay people in general… I’m for it! they are people just like “straight”/“normal”/“Insert positive mainstream adjective here” people. Leave them alone. There was no question on a military app., that asked who you like to fuck, before why should there be one now? if you find out someone’s gay, why should you care? unless you were gonna fix that dude up with your sister, there’s really no problem. Actually, it’s a positive, 'cause that’s one less dude you have to compete with for that special girl’s attention Or one less dude you don’t have to worry about fucking your wife when your away!
Late,
grmpysmrf
Obama has a free pass with the media and most of America. People in the press talk about getting goosebumps when they see him. The man can’t even speak without a telepromter, and no one (except nazi talk radio) even mentions it. Any other president, and that’s already a SNL skit. He’s going to do things wrong, we need to accept it, call it out and get on with it, instead of continuing on this giant circle jerk about electing a black president and getting Bush the fuck out. Both good things, but it’s time to get back to reality, and the news needs to be the news again and be critical when they should be.
The man can’t even speak without a telepromter, and no one (except nazi talk radio) even mentions it.
This is petty! W couldn’t talk even with a teleprompter, (Personally, 'cause I think He’s illiterate. No swipe at him, not meant to be mean, I really think the guy can’t read and that saddens me) why does it matter? Beck, Hannity, Coultier, O’rielly all bitch about him using a teleprompter cause that’s what their … … … … … … TELEPROMPTER tells them to say!
dead/unimportant topic let it go!
edit:
Nobody even knows what’s on those teleprompters, those could just be his high tech version of note cards… To me, it doesn’t look like he’s reading when he talk.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Who’s to say that the victims are the only people in the photos? Nothing like incriminating photos to use as evidence against the people performing the torture so that they can be individually prosecuted for war crimes.
If I recall correctly, there are also standards for war reporting involving the amount and kind of gore that is published in photos to the masses.
Double standard? Maybe. What good will come of seeing the photos anyway? I can’t think of anything to gain by it but potentially much to lose. Sweep it under a rug and don’t let it happen again. It’s a bit like a pregnant 13 yr old. Don’t drag the child through the mud. Home school her til she has a baby and move on.
I lived on a ship and I am telling you that having a gay person in berthing is not a good thing. For one thing, guys will be guys and a gay person is going to be offended or potentially have his ass kicked when everyone else is checking out porn and talking about doing some chick and a gay guy comes in and starts talking about sucking some d. I’m not talking dorm roommates that can get by not knowing much about each other. I’m talking about living so close that you can tell who is in the next stall by the small of his crap.
Based on all this you would know if that person is gay without them even saying something.
who cares? why does it matter? Why can’t they just think of the gay guy, as the guy who likes to fuck ugly hairy chicks in the ass!.. not only that, but a bunch of guys sitting around watching porn sounds awfully gay to me!
Sweeping it under the rug doesn’t work either because that paves the way for future officials to say that it didn’t happen. RESPONSIBILITY!!!
Late,
grmpysmrf
If I recall correctly, there are also standards for war reporting involving the amount and kind of gore that is published in photos to the masses.
Like the 12 year old naked cambodian girl running down the road screaming? or the guy tied to the stakes and his skin pealed off of his skull, while he’s still alive? I haven’t heard that rule with photography, but perhaps you’re right.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Obama has a free pass with the media and most of America. People in the press talk about getting goosebumps when they see him. The man can’t even speak without a telepromter, and no one (except nazi talk radio) even mentions it.
Obama hardly has a free pass. Even the more liberal of the 2 newspapers here in Obama’s hometown still run pro-RW, anti-Obama feature articles on the editorial page several times a week. If you want links…I’ll provide. All you have to do is google Steve Huntley for starters.
As for the teleprompter thing…it’s pure RW propaganda. I personally know the guy who ran Obama’s teleprompter during the run up to the election, we work together quite a bit. Not only does Obama write most of what appears on his teleprompter and always has the last word as to what does finally make it, but he frequently veers off script and still connects back to the script seemlessly. the guys is a brilliant speechwriter and speaker no matter what anyone may think of his policies. To raise the issue that he’s simply reading what’s given him is pure nonsense.
The RW is loving this agrument about releasing photos and what did Nancy Pelosi know and when did she know it. You’d think from the way it’s being protrayed in the media (so much for that “free pass”) that Obama and the Democrats were the ones responsible for torture when of course it was Bush, Cheney and the Republicans
Given Obama’s hesitency to prosecute the previous administration, I think the photo’s may be just too much of a smoking gun. and as i said before i’d rather he fix the economy than put forth money and effort to focus on the 2 nitwits that came before him. not to give bush and chaney a free pass. there’s lots of time to put them in jail. not alot of time left for some peeople before their power gets cut and the locks on the doors changed.
Given Obama’s hesitency to prosecute the previous administration, I think the photo’s may be just too much of a smoking gun. and as i said before i’d rather he fix the economy than put forth money and effort to focus on the 2 nitwits that came before him. not to give bush and chaney a free pass. there’s lots of time to put them in jail. not alot of time left for some peeople before their power gets cut and the locks on the doors changed.
I don’t know if you have posted this before here or if i heard it somewhere else but I think is the best theory for Obama ignoring this for the time being!
Let the UN investigate and do all of tha PI bullshit, that way Obama’s free to work on all of the domestic shit W fucked up. 'Cause for damn sure if Obama started Prosecutions and investigations and what not, our country would stop while it watched/waited for the proceedings to end…Obama is smart to let others lead this up and when the W admin is found guilty of war crimes Obama admin can step in and assist…Which poses another interesting question I’ve thought about for a couple of months now to which I’ll start another thread on.
Late,
grmpysmrf
When you’re in the army don’t they give you pills to surpress your sex drive or something like that?
No. You’re referring to salt peter, which is an additive that is placed into the food at the mess halls. It’s odorless, tasteless, and its intention is that indeed - only thing is, it doesn’t really work. I assure you.
Maybe the pics are so bad Obama would not want them to be encouraging more fuckwits to sacrifice their life for “the cause”. Maybe not. The problem with all of this is promising too much to the public. He (and others in office) know there will always be things that will have to be turned about or whatever. You can’t foresee everything and you have to adapt. I think people have to take what a politician says not too seriously as that whole game is not conducive to absolute consistency. I think people can expect a bit more integrity from Obama than the obvious losers like Bush and co. Has he done anything to suggest that he’s not working for the best interests of his people? On the bigger issue I guess not releasing photos aint as big a deal as blowing the shit out of a country and killing thousands of its inhabitants under false pretences for years.
As regards the gay thing, there is no reason whatsoever that there shouldn’t be gay marriage. The military case scenario is a different issue I suppose, I dunno… gays shouldn’t get special treatment (like their own quarters, with fluffy pillows) but should be allowed to do the same as others. If they’re subtle about it, what’s the problem? I don’t think there’s many “we’re gay and we’re proud, sugar” gays in the military anyway.
[reply]The man can’t even speak without a telepromter, and no one (except nazi talk radio) even mentions it.
This is petty![/reply]
W couldn’t talk even with a teleprompter,
dead/unimportant topic let it go!
As for the teleprompter thing…it’s pure RW propaganda…he frequently veers off script and still connects back to the script seemlessly.
First of all, it’s typical and hilarious that you guys didn’t comment on the article, and went off on the teleprompter tangent.
You guys don’t get it. It’s not that it’s an important issue, because it’s not. I just want people to acknowledge the double standard here. If it we’re John McCain up there who couldn’t do anything w/out a telepromter, everyone, Bill Maher, Will Farrell, Grmpysmrf, wempath, sped, Al Jourgensen would all be fucking brutal on him. There’s no way you would be saying “It’s petty/moot point/let it go”. In fact grmpy, I’m sure you would be the one on here talking about it. Talk about he’s too old and it’s embarrassing. And wempathy, I don’t care who you think you know that did what, but Jon Favreau writes most of Obama’s speeches (sans inauguration speech) and Obama approves them. Obama has said this himself. The president has way more on his plate to worry about than formal speech writing. That’s why Obama appointed him Director of Speechwriting.
Why do people get so damn touchy and defensive of politicians anyway?