it’s different. metzger has a nich group with only one message and purpose: racism. mancow doesn’t stand for shit (except being an idiot, which Al is).
Well, I can’t really argue with any of that, haha!
straight from his official website:
“Rice sparked further controversy through public flirtations with “Nazi” aesthetics and fascist ideology, a flaunted disregard for political correctness, and an espousal of antisocial doctrines such as Satanism, Social Darwinism and elitist misanthropy. The culmination of these affiliations and endorsements established Rice as one of the 1990s’ foremost countercultural antagonists and provocateurs, alienating many of his erstwhile fans.”
None of the above is being debated or argued and has already been pointed out. “Nazi aesthetics” is a lot different than “racist agenda”.
A lot of artists (and fans) in the world of rock (and especially the “industrial” genre) flirt with Nazi aesthetics. Are Hanzel Und Gretel Nazis? Is Lemmy? Was Sid Vicious?[/reply]
the important part is in bold. by his own admission he ENDORSED known racists.
the important part is in bold. by his own admission he ENDORSED known racists.[/reply]
Affiliations and endorsements.
That’s a reference to the total collective of the aforementioned . . . some of which are affiliations (i.e. going on a Nazi’s TV show could be an affiliation) and endorsements (he most obviously endorsed and was endorsed by the Church of Satan at one time since he was a Priest and Magistrate).
But did he ever “endorse” racism? I’m also intentionally using the 'ism as opposed to the 'ists, since we all might have racist friends or associates that we could endorse for something or other and have it be completely unrelated to the racism itself.
Again, if you think going on a show or dressing up in Nazi garb makes you a racist or Nazi by default, so be it.
Sorry, but when I see NON, I think of the New Order Nation from the game Revolution X. You know, the game where you have to rescue Aerosmith from a group of terrorists?
Sorry, but when I see NON, I think of the New Order Nation from the game Revolution X. You know, the game where you have to rescue Aerosmith from a group of terrorists?
HAHAHAHAHA!!! I never played it. In college, though, I did spend an entire day with my friends, a Nintendo, and a keg of beer . . . helping Beavis and Butthead get to a GWAR concert.
[reply]Sorry, but when I see NON, I think of the New Order Nation from the game Revolution X. You know, the game where you have to rescue Aerosmith from a group of terrorists?
HAHAHAHAHA!!! I never played it. In college, though, I did spend an entire day with my friends, a Nintendo, and a keg of beer . . . helping Beavis and Butthead get to a GWAR concert.[/reply]
Do they actually make it to the show in the end? By the way, the Sega version was way harder than the SNES.
the important part is in bold. by his own admission he ENDORSED known racists.[/reply]
Affiliations and endorsements.
That’s a reference to the total collective of the aforementioned . . . some of which are affiliations (i.e. going on a Nazi’s TV show could be an affiliation) and endorsements (he most obviously endorsed and was endorsed by the Church of Satan at one time since he was a Priest and Magistrate).
But did he ever “endorse” racism? I’m also intentionally using the 'ism as opposed to the 'ists, since we all might have racist friends or associates that we could endorse for something or other and have it be completely unrelated to the racism itself.
Again, if you think going on a show or dressing up in Nazi garb makes you a racist or Nazi by default, so be it.
That’s just not enough proof for ME.[/reply]
there’s nothing wrong with dressing up like a nazi and/or having facist imagery. it’s fairly common with industrial artists. as a fan of the genre, i’m used to it. it’s having the imagery AND affiliating/endorsing high level white supremacists that crosses the line. for me anyway.
it would actually be even worst if he was doing it for show. being racist isn’t cool. i mean, if he was pretending to be racist just to troll them that would be a different story.
and no, i don’t know any racist people :p. i grew up in a very multicultural society. i wouldn’t want to associate with people like that.
there’s nothing wrong with dressing up like a nazi and/or having facist imagery. it’s fairly common with industrial artists. as a fan of the genre, i’m used to it. it’s having the imagery AND affiliating/endorsing high level white supremacists that crosses the line. for me anyway.
I wasn’t arguing the rightness or wrongness of anything. But yeah, I’m sure no one will take issue with observing that Boyd crossed plenty of lines. I think that made him very unique and interesting. But I (as he did too) totally understand how many people think he goes “too far” and feel that such actions are a deal breaker for them personally.
I’m actually not sure which version we played (in my brain everything that’s not Atari is Nintendo, sorry). I’m not really a video game guy.
In the Sega version Butthead farts and Beavis burps. You actually need to have 2 people playing otherwise it was pretty hard. I never beat any levels on it.
In SNES you had weapons like squirt guns and the bats with boxing gloves on them.
So, being pictured with the leader of the American Front, appearing on White Aryan Resistance, working with the likes of Michael Moynihan and being a member of the Church of Satan (which mainly consisted of racists by the mid 70’s) isn’t evidence that he’s a Nazi?
So, being pictured with the leader of the American Front, appearing on White Aryan Resistance, working with the likes of Michael Moynihan and being a member of the Church of Satan (which mainly consisted of racists by the mid 70’s) isn’t evidence that he’s a Nazi?
No. Not in my book.
But like I’ve clearly stated earlier, to some people, that is enough to fit their OWN criteria for who is a Nazi. Clearly you feel this is enough evidence. To you he is a Nazi. I don’t have a problem with that.
You admit that he’s created a few of your favorite albums. Can we now proclaim to the world that you are a fan of hate rock and support Nazis? Even if I thought Boyd was a racist (again, he may be, I’ve just never seen or heard any REAL evidence of it) I wouldn’t think it fair to call you one just because you liked his music.
You admit that he’s created a few of your favorite albums. Can we now proclaim to the world that you are a fan of hate rock and support Nazis? Even if I thought Boyd was a racist (again, he may be, I’ve just never seen or heard any REAL evidence of it) I wouldn’t think it fair to call you one just because you liked his music.
I can see where you’re coming from, but I don’t see a problem with criticising musicians for their views. I would never assume that people who listen to, for example, Burzum are Nazis because Varg Vikernes is one.
And I don’t think you can ever refer to music as being fundamentally political. The people making it might have their views (and I may hate them) but to me that doesn’t absolutely taint the music itself.
For example, I am fond of the music of snare/lambeg/flute bands associated with the Orange Order in Northern Ireland despite having been a victim throughout my life of the sectarianism associated with that movement. Even a song like “The Sash” which commemorates battles that led to centuries of inequality in Ireland is still just a song to me.
The tune itself isn’t sectarian, just the people who claim it. Music isn’t going to commit a racially aggravated assault, and i’d go as far to say it’s not going to warp somebodies mind into doing it either unless their mind is already warped that way.
This, however, should not insulate the musicans from criticism.
I can see where you’re coming from, but I don’t see a problem with criticising musicians for their views.
I don’t either.
I just like to know what those views are before I criticize them. There’s plenty of other things that most people can and will disagree with Boyd on and make criticisms of which ARE properly proved by mere fact of his own admission.
He was a leader in the Church of Satan. Assuming you disagree with the CoS, feel free to criticize that. He’s an admitted misanthrope, a Social Darwinist, and elitist. Feel free to criticize that. He dressed up AS a Nazi (more than once) – that’s kind of a prick move already. Feel free to criticize it.
I just think it’s a waste of time to try and label someone as something that they won’t admit to themselves if there’s no actual evidence of it. That’s all.
I also have never understood the media’s and society’s recent fixation on “racism” or “homophobia” or “anti-Semitism” as the be all definition of unredeemable evil for someone. Artists can be pretty much the worst people in the world and get a free pass on everything . . . until something suggests they might be racist.
I’ve read long debates on the internet about whether certain black metal artists like Burzum or Emperor are racist . . . . uhhh, they murdered people, burnt churches, have no remorse for anything they’ve done, worship Satan (or Odin, or trees, or whatever) and hate everything that is good, and they’re worried about whether or not they would give fair consideration to the dark-skinned intern applicant.
For some reason i just think it’s really about controversy and bucking the PC system for him YOu know? I think in th end it more of an actual juvenile thing we’re it’s bad and you aren’t supposed to do it, he does it.I think he appears on these shows just so it will be a note on his wiki page.I would say we should just ask him (He personally checks/updates his FB) but, i got a feeling i know what will come of it.I don’t know i just think it’s all a big joke to him.Read his exploits in ‘pranks’ and you’ll get a sense
of his personality
