I bought the Rust In Peace Megadeth remaster and it seems to me its a whole new recording it isn’t just the track volumes and what not twiddled with. Well at least with the vocals. They sound like they have been entirely rerecorded. Normally I like mustaine’s vox but the vocal rerecords are really bad. Hangar 18 is almost unlistenable. The drums in Dawn Patrol now have this echo reverb thing going on. So I guess my question is this… does a remaster include remaking an album or is it just adjusting sound and mixing levels?
Late,
grmpysmrf
Not usually.
But 10 seconds of Wikipedia research revealed this factoid:
“Rust in Peace was re-released in 2004 with a new sound and four new bonus tracks. During the audio mixing process, Mustaine found that the original lead vocal tracks for “Take No Prisoners”, “Five Magics” and “Lucretia” were missing — he had no choice but to re-record the vocals on “Take No Prisoners” and use alternate takes for “Lucretia” and “Five Magics” and possibly “Rust in Peace… Polaris” as the second verse differs slightly from the original.”
Well that’s not as bad as Ozzy rerecording the bass and drum trax on his first couple of albums
Not usually.
But 10 seconds of Wikipedia research revealed this factoid:
“Rust in Peace was re-released in 2004 with a new sound and four new bonus tracks. During the audio mixing process, Mustaine found that the original lead vocal tracks for “Take No Prisoners”, “Five Magics” and “Lucretia” were missing — he had no choice but to re-record the vocals on “Take No Prisoners” and use alternate takes for “Lucretia” and “Five Magics” and possibly “Rust in Peace… Polaris” as the second verse differs slightly from the original.”
Thanks. I’m pretty sure he rerorded all of the vocals the wiki writer was generous me thinks
Late,
grmpysmrf
Well that’s not as bad as Ozzy rerecording the bass and drum trax on his first couple of albums
Zappa had to do this for the “We’re Only In It For the Money” rerelease and I didn’t like it at all. The original masters were 8 track I believe and the drums were recorded on one outside track, the bass on the other outside track. This used to be a common technique back when tape was king because bass and kick drum tend to bleed over on to the adjacent track and so by recording on one of the outside tracks you could at least eliminate half the problem. Problem was that the outside tracks were damaged and had to be redone.
You haven’t been around for awhile. Glad yer back. How was yer break?
Late,
grmpysmrf
You haven’t been around for awhile. Glad yer back. How was yer break?
Late,
grmpysmrf
Me? The break kinda sucked. Death in the family. My last remaining blood-related grandparent, my grandmother, died last week on her 93rd birthday. We were quite close. But…93 is a ripe old age. Moving forward…
Sorry to hear that. Lots of that going around on Prongs lately.
My grandmother’s 94 and I spend as much time with her as I can.
MegaDave tool’d up the whole catalog when they re-did them. =/
Damn shame.
Your description of how the new vocal tracks on that album affect the songs makes me physically ill. Without even having heard the RiP remaster and having heard him play the entire album live this summer, I can tell you his aged vocal chords don’t sound too great over that type of music. The band was on-point but he really did sound like he was straining over all the notes. Plus RIP…Polaris has some of the most charmingly goofy vocals and I wouldn’t want to hear them cleaned up. I heard that the Peace Sells remaster has even more rerecorded tracks.
[reply]You haven’t been around for awhile. Glad yer back. How was yer break?
Late,
grmpysmrf
Me? The break kinda sucked. Death in the family. My last remaining blood-related grandparent, my grandmother, died last week on her 93rd birthday. We were quite close. But…93 is a ripe old age. Moving forward…[/reply]
Man, sorry to hear that. You’re certainly have the right attitude though. certainly doesn’t hurt any less though. But I’m sure you’ll heal quicker being in the right head space. I thought for some reason you were cabining it in South Carolina.
Here’s to healing brother!!
Late,
grmpysmrf
Your description of how the new vocal tracks on that album affect the songs makes me physically ill. Without even having heard the RiP remaster and having heard him play the entire album live this summer, I can tell you his aged vocal chords don’t sound too great over that type of music.
Didn’t see the tour. was thinking about going though. glad i didn’t if it sounded like the remaster.
Yeah, his lows aren’t nearly low enough and his highs aren’t even close. and he tries to sing it all smooth like, rather than the crunchy gravel that was his voice
The band was on-point but he really did sound like he was straining over all the notes.
Oh yeah, the music is damn good cleaned up. although I think I prefer the older recordings just because of the familiarity of it. with the exception of Dawn Patrol. The polish on Dawn Patrol is gorgeous but still theVox aint there which brings it down a bit
Plus RIP…Polaris has some of the most charmingly goofy vocals and I wouldn’t want to hear them cleaned up.
Man I love that track! I love the crunch of the guitar. I like how everything drops out except just the crunchy guitars can be heard and then dave comes in: ca-crunch cruuuuuunch crunch “high priest of holocaust fire …”
I heard that the Peace Sells remaster has even more rerecorded tracks.
That’s a damn shame! Don’t even want to hear it now. I thought maybe it was limited to rust in peace but apparently not. [:(]
Late,
grmpysmrf
Original lead vocal tracks were missing = having to re-record them?
Utter bullshit.
So why not explain that, in a short blurb in the liner notes, in order to try and maintain the original sound as close as possible, that they could find an original vinyl or acetate or 3/4 inch tape…or SOMETHING…to not have to re-record it?
Might as well call it “Rust In Peace: Revisited” or some crapola.
And yes, the Ozzy reissue stuff is awful.
I heard that the Peace Sells remaster has even more rerecorded tracks.
Saw nothing on wiki about this. Perhaps it’s just a shitty remaster job by dave
Might as well call it “Rust In Peace: Revisited” or some crapola.
It probably would still be crap, but I think you’re right in the fact that Dave would be trying to at least represent the product a little more accurately.
Late,
grmpysmrf
in answer to the original question a remaster should technically use the original mixdown of each song and not the stems or multi-tracks (as this would be a remixed and remastered album!). there should be no level adjustments of the individual tracks and no added fx, save for stuff done over the whole mix or selected parts thereof. re-mastering will probably boost the overall perceived volume with compression/gain and eq/compress certain frequencies to add clarity, punch, or just more lo/mid/hi. exciters or maximisers may also be used, and phase discrepencies may be recitified. So basically a remaster is adjusting the overall sound, not adjusting the individual parts to create a new sound. having said this, the term is used fast and loose in the industry as a sales tool describing everything from remixes to rerecordings to actual, proper remasters, to resell products that probably didn’t need ‘remastering’ at all in the first place. during the remastering process someone might clean up the original recordings too, like they did with the Beatles, but if the levels are adjusted then it’s a new mix, not just a remaster. some stuff does benefit from remastering, some doesn’t. Unfortunately, because of the current trend of the ‘loudness war’, remastering (or plain mastering) tends to mean brickwalling the mix (Metallica and our very own Al, for instance). In the past they used this wonderful invention called a volume control to make things louder. Anyway, i could waffle for hours on this subject, but instead i’ll shut up and get on with some work…
Everything PointOfCollapse said is true.
Years ago when I was an intern, somebody told me the point of mastering was to make the album sound the same no matter where you played it - car, home, jukebox, etc. I don’t know how true that is, since I don’t work in that branch of audio, but these days the point seems to be to make it as loud as possible.
I thought for some reason you were cabining it in South Carolina.
Here’s to healing brother!!
Late,
grmpysmrf
Our trip to Asheville was a few weeks ago. No cable, internet, or cellphone for 3 days. And the cabin, well…the pics speak for themselves.
POC mentioned that some albums didn’t need to be remastered. A perfect example is The Cure’s Kiss Me x3. Certain songs just sounded better with that analog rawness, especially the opening track. And certain bands sound better on vinyl than on cd. Vinyl quality doesn’t generally need to be remastered if you have the right sound system
[reply][reply]I thought for some reason you were cabining it in South Carolina.
Here’s to healing brother!!
Late,
grmpysmrf
Our trip to Asheville was a few weeks ago. No cable, internet, or cellphone for 3 days. And the cabin, well…the pics speak for themselves.[/reply]
Did you stay in that little shack???[/reply]
Yep. Three nights. The main cabin was big enough for a queen-size bed and a living area. Then there was an add-on in the back with another bedroom and full bath. The roof at the right side of pic was the cookhouse which has a kitchen, dining area and a screened in porch with a couch, another dining area and a couple of rocking chairs. Plenty of room for 5 or 6 people but there was just the two of us. Lots of privacy and really well kept. There was an old TV and a DVD player that we used at night…but that was our only modern electronic convenience.