No, i completley agree with you guy’s i was’nt a fan of the last two records/C u latour myself. What has been irritating me forever aout this place is all the way back in '00 everyone bitched cause the record was’nt hard enough, then it’s too many guitars or this does’nt sound like With Sympathy etc. etc. It just seems as though ministry has some of the hardest to please fan’s ever, and as someone who almost forces himself to like some ministry records because i used to be that into them it just builds up you know? And with the whole paul thing, ministry was at it’s best when they BOTH were involved . The conflict of there polar-opposite personalities/approaches to music is what made it great in my opinion and yeah i know it’s just a forum i’ve been coming here since '98 and i bet i still have’nt broken a hundred post so i obiviously don’t take this place too seriously, but on the other hand this is the only forum i frequent.
"And with the whole paul thing, ministry was at it’s best when they BOTH were involved . "
Agreed.
And fans of many bands are hard to please.
Glad to hear you aren’t too wound up. You sounded pissed.
Al’s “solo” album - as in, they decide to put that out under the Ministry name because it’s better known/might sell better.
It could be another case of Black Sabbath ‘Seventh Star’
@destructo: I got into Ministry in similar fashion. I thought Al was a really cool figure as a young lad. But that was from photos and interviews and such. I had no conception of what he was like behind the scenes so to speak, ie. not so cool. But that’s not really important in itself, however it does compound all the nonsense that has happened over the past 5 years. But put it this way: if you love a band because they make some awesome music and they seem pretty cool but then quite quickly they turn to shit… complete shit, do you still feel comfortable saying you love that band, especially to others? I know I don’t. Call me a wuss but I like to have a band or artist who I can look upon and say they were fucking great and that they never turned to crap. To me “loyalty” to someone just because they have done great things in the past is not enough to sustain that loyalty if they now are doing things that you hate. It’s like respect for a parent; yeah they created you and looked after you as an infant but then what happens if they start wailing on you or fucking you around when you get older. Do you stay loyal and repspectful to them? I wouldn’t. Loyalty requires respect, respect must be maintained, it can be maintained simply by not fucking up and becoming an obvious asshole.
I still love pre-2004 Ministry (to be honest ‘Houses’ had some moments) but I actively dislike stuff since it. After Paul left I was still a Ministry head and I gave both Houses and Rio a very good chance, even forcing myself to like them. But it wasn’t to be. Sucker and all the cover shit since drove it into the swamp.
The Paul love is, I think, exaggerated because in comparison to Al he looks like a more vital component of “good” Ministry. There’s no horror stories about Paul too so there’s a natural inclination to be more supportive of him. Anyway the Paul love is a light-hearted thing. It’s not as if people are biting the heads off others for dissing Paul. For example, there are some here who think FB is crap and there’s no backlash.
Where the Al bashing might get irritating for some might be that no matter what he does now people rail against him. There could be some here who genuinely like his recent stuff, that’s fine too. But anyone is just as entitled to disagree with them and call him a washed up fuckstick if they want. I dislike Al now primarily because his recent stuff is, to me, utter juvenile cheap-sounding wankery. I see no hope for him. BUT… if he was to pull something cool out of his arse I could appreciate it. It’s just everything since 2007 has been depleting. There is a pattern to his crapness.
I think you’ve stated it pretty well Mick, the gravitation towards Paul is such that he was seen as an anchor for the band for so many years. We all understood that he was the Mr. Spock to Al’s Captain Kirk, and they worked well that way. At this point I don’t see them working on music together again, but if it happened then I would certainly be interested in hearing the results.
For me my problem with Al is the turnaround in attitude some time after Paul left. The whole you know after 18 years of marriage you want to try out other positions attitude is fine it was more the ah this guy was just a bass player minimalizing. He did the same thing with Stephen George way back when.
I would respect Al more if he just stuck to his guns and became a studio rat like he always said he wanted to, put out the odd project now and then and do some guest appearances. In 1990 he said he didn’t want to be some balding, fat guy in his 50s onstage screaming Stigmata at the kids. I kind of agree with him.
Nicely put Mick and Chemical Meat.
The thing I really like about this board is that we often disagree on music, but that it doesn’t devolve into nasty stuff. Usually there is a good deal of agree to disagree.
A funny counter-example was the old days of the Neubauten board during phase one where you couldn’t criticize anything, even saying that you didn’t like something, without people screaming that you were just closed minded… and I’m not talking about criticizing Neubauten - no body that I read over there ever did that - I mean you couldn’t criticize the WORST, most banal pop music without somebody freaking out and calling you an elitist or “closed minded.” And people took it really personally. It was like they were playing a game of oneupmanship about who could be the most neutral and devoid of personality (or “open minded” if you will). You couldn’t even have any personal taste. Very strange, and it wasn’t what I had expected from Neubauten fans.
Al’s “solo” album - as in, they decide to put that out under the Ministry name because it’s better known/might sell better.
It could be another case of Black Sabbath ‘Seventh Star’
Or Killing Joke’s “Outside the Gate”.
Nicely put Mick and Chemical Meat.
The thing I really like about this board is that we often disagree on music, but that it doesn’t devolve into nasty stuff. Usually there is a good deal of agree to disagree.
A funny counter-example was the old days of the Neubauten board during phase one where you couldn’t criticize anything, even saying that you didn’t like something, without people screaming that you were just closed minded… and I’m not talking about criticizing Neubauten - no body that I read over there ever did that - I mean you couldn’t criticize the WORST, most banal pop music without somebody freaking out and calling you an elitist or “closed minded.” And people took it really personally. It was like they were playing a game of oneupmanship about who could be the most neutral and devoid of personality (or “open minded” if you will). You couldn’t even have any personal taste. Very strange, and it wasn’t what I had expected from Neubauten fans.
…
The FUCK.
See, that’s what I like about this place. No one’s afraid to throw a brick at the system. In fact, I usually am frothing at the mouth to do so, and if said system is the latest “Ministry” joint, all the better. Just tryin’ to shake things up and make things happen.
In summation, Al + Cleopatra = [pirate]
Hahahahaha, an industrial band is “the system”
Where’s Al? Why should we guess?
I am so torn. I just don’t know what to think of this.
On one hand, I hated how Ministry ended and wanted to see something better. With that in mind, bring on a new album. Maybe Al and Company have the same feelings.
Then on the other hand, there’s no need to tarnish Ministry’s legacy anymore than Al already has.
And then there’s Cleopatra. What an odd label to choose. I would have thought SPV, Roadrunner or even Relapse would have taken a shot at Ministry. Cleopatra hasn’t been relevant since the turn of the century (and that’s being generous)
I used to love Cleopatra. Penal colony, Noise Unit, Download, Spahn Ranch, Kill Switch Klick with distribution for Zoth Omog and Die Krupps.
But that was a long long time ago.
I will hold my final judgement until I see who’s involved with Ministry. Al used to blow my mind with his musical direction, albeit a long time ago.
The only thing I can remember cleaopatra having that was worth while was PIG. They reissued Praise The Lard and also released The Swining/Red, Raw & Sore. PIG technically wasnt on the label seeing how they reissued those albums behind his back and he didn’t care but still
i don’t know why you guys are being so bitter. you SHOULDN’T expect his work to sound anything like it did before, because that was 20+ years ago. people change, they evolve. i for one think that the bush trilogy was decent. so i don’t know what to think about this. hopefully barker is involved…
Welcome to Prongs m’man…
The only thing I can remember cleaopatra having that was worth while was PIG. They reissued Praise The Lard and also released The Swining/Red, Raw & Sore. PIG technically wasnt on the label seeing how they reissued those albums behind his back and he didn’t care but still
gotta love raymond 
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gotta love raymond
I’m with ya!
Huh, what i was going on about guy a couple post up has nothing to do with 'open-mindedess" etc. It is simply that i’m tired of the constant Al bashing here, this goes back to Filth pig here. I’m simply tired of it, and if you read the post the last two records proper are not my fav’s either but i don’t shit on the band’s entire catologue for two crappy records in the end that’s not that bad. As someone said earlier 3o yrs. two bland records, i’m just hoping for a proper final ministry record
p.s. The pig records were kind of a swag deal as he had not gotten them up to par for the re-release (artwork wrong,crappy mastering from the record) I’m wondering if these are the re-releases Al went on about after getting the rights back from warners with the 'goodies" he promised
I think Filth Pig and Twitch got reissued, as did Rape & Honey a few years ago. If he’s gonna do his own reissues there better be bonus trax on there. He could make cleopatra a lot of money if he just does it right with a new album and if he reissues the classics the proper way
I think Filth Pig and Twitch got reissued, as did Rape & Honey a few years ago. If he’s gonna do his own reissues there better be bonus trax on there. He could make cleopatra a lot of money if he just does it right with a new album and if he reissues the classics the proper way
A reissued DSOTS with bonus tracks would revalidate Cleopatra Records and absolve Al of all his sins.
Yeah but put it on a bouns disc. Dark Side is fine just the way it is. If there were bonus trax on there it would fuck up the linda summertime ending. I believe this was mentioned in a thread a couple months ago, but a 2nd disc could be the scrapped Dark Side trax. As long as that would feature the Supermanic Soul demo, the extended version of Step and Happy Dust I’d be happy
[reply]I think Filth Pig and Twitch got reissued, as did Rape & Honey a few years ago. If he’s gonna do his own reissues there better be bonus trax on there. He could make cleopatra a lot of money if he just does it right with a new album and if he reissues the classics the proper way
A reissued DSOTS with bonus tracks would revalidate Cleopatra Records and absolve Al of all his sins.[/reply]
If they released a 2-disc of this with the abandoned ambient album as the second disc, well that would make my decade.
Wounded Bird released a new run of LORAH CDs a few years ago (that or they got their hands on some dead stock), but I never saw or heard of a Twitch or FP re-issue.
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