Massacre In Arizona

. You need to see the reality through the REAL world.

<snip>

This guys shit was politcally motivated! His dog didn’t tell him to do it, voices didn’t whisper it to him, he didn’t think a movie star would like him better, the bar of soap in th bathroom didn’t tell him it would be a good idea.

He was spouting the ideals and rants of the tea partiers and the rest of the am radio band has been ever since Obama was elected.

How does that make it NOT political?

It’s the in the right’s interest just to make him crazy… well no shit he was crazy. But he was crazy in the sense that he bought into the bullshit of Beck and the like!
Late,
grmpysmrf

more of “my” made up facts!

Just in the past two and a half years, here’s the record of “isolated incidents” amassed so far:

– July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how “liberals” are “destroying America,” walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.

– October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

– December 2008: A pair of “Patriot” movement radicals – the father-son team of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted “to attack the political infrastructure” – threaten a bank in Woodburn, Oregon, with a bomb in the hopes of extorting money that would end their financial difficulties, for which they blamed the government. Instead, the bomb goes off and kills two police officers. The men eventually are convicted and sentenced to death for the crime.

– December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear “dirty bomb” in the basement of a white supremacist shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independently wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.

– January 2009: A white supremacist named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

– February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

– April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.

– April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama’s purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-violence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.

– May 2009: A “sovereign citizen” named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Wichita, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

– June 2009: A Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester named James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

– February 2010: An angry tax protester named Joseph Ray Stack flies an airplane into the building housing IRS offices in Austin, Texas. (Media are reluctant to label this one “domestic terrorism” too.)

– March 2010: Seven militiamen from the Hutaree Militia in Michigan and Ohio are arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate local police officers with the intent of sparking a new civil war.

– March 2010: An anti-government extremist named John Patrick Bedell walks into the Pentagon and opens fire, wounding two officers before he is himself shot dead.

– May 2010: A “sovereign citizen” from Georgia is arrested in Tennessee and charged with plotting the violent takeover of a local county courthouse.

– May 2010: A still-unidentified white man walks into a Jacksonville, Fla., mosque and sets it afire, simultaneously setting off a pipe bomb.

– May 2010: Two “sovereign citizens” named Jerry and Joe Kane gun down two police officers who pull them over for a traffic violation, and then wound two more officers in a shootout in which both of them are eventually killed.

– July 2010: An agitated right-winger and convict named Byron Williams loads up on weapons and drives to the Bay Area intent on attacking the offices of the Tides Foundation and the ACLU, but is intercepted by state patrolmen and engages them in a shootout and armed standoff in which two officers and Williams are wounded.

– September 2010: A Concord, N.C., man is arrested and charged with plotting to blow up a North Carolina abortion clinic. The man, 26-year–old Justin Carl Moose, referred to himself as the "Christian counterpart to (Osama) bin Laden” in a taped undercover meeting with a federal informant.

these are not tolerant people.
Late,
grmpysmrf

please find the lefty equivalent of this list!!! I beg you!!!

Rush Limbaugh: “I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus – living fossils – so we will never forget what these people stood for.”

Stop the ACLU [post since removed]:

Rope + Tree + ACLU Lawyer = Pinata

Ann Coulter: “I think our motto should be, post-9-11: ‘Raghead talks tough, raghead faces consequences.’”

Ann Coulter: “We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens’ creme brulee. … That’s just a joke, for you in the media.”

“This free speech thing is a canard. … How about not letting traitors teach at universities? Yes, I realize I’ve just proposed firing the entire Harvard faculty. These institutions can be shaken – look at Dan Rather. He’s out. Or, as I look at it, one down, two to go. We’re going to need a much bigger trophy case for all these stuffed heads.”

“Some liberals have become even too crazy for Texas to execute, which is a damn shame. They’re always saying – we’re oppressed, we’re oppressed so let’s do it. Let’s oppress them.”

Rush Limbaugh:

[Quoting from an AP report] “Aljazeera has broadcasted an insurgent video today, shows four peace activists taken hostage in Iraq, with a previously unknown group claiming responsibility for the kidnappings. The unknown group is the Swords of Righteousness Brigade, and they said the four were spies working undercover as Christian peace activists, according to Aljazeera. Aljazeera said that it could not verify any of the information on the tape. The aid group Christian Peacemaker Teams has confirmed that four of its members were taken hostage on Saturday…”

[P]art of me that likes this. And some of you might say, “Rush, that’s horrible. Peace activists taken hostage.” Well, here’s why I like it. I like any time a bunch of leftist feel-good hand-wringers are shown reality. So here we have these peace activists over there. I don’t care if they’re Christian or not.

[…]

Yeah, as warped as these people are, you know they’re going to blame Bush for this… They wouldn’t have been kidnapped because they wouldn’t have been there in the first place if Bush hadn’t gone and caused the war and created all these terrorists. I mean, these people are liberals, they’re warped. Well, I mean, that’s why there’s – I’m telling you, folks, there’s a part of me that likes this. Probably, even with this, though, you know, they’re not going to see the light of day. They’re not going to – I know, let them take me out of context. I don’t care anymore.

Melanie Morgan: “I would have no problem with [New York Times editor Bill Keller] being sent to the gas chamber.”

Melanie Morgan: “A great deal of good could be done by arresting Bill Keller having him lined up against the wall and shot.”

Lee Rogers: “[T]he day will come when unpleasant things are going to happen to a bunch of stupid liberals and it’s going to be very amusing to watch.”

“The Political Insight”:

Let’s start with the following New York Times reporters and editors: Arthur “Pinch” Sulzberger Jr. , Bill Keller, Eric Lichtblau, and James Risen. Do you have an idea where they live?

Go hunt them down and do America a favor. Get their photo, street address, where their kids go to school, anything you can dig up, and send it to the link above. This is your chance to be famous – grab for the golden ring.

RedState contributor “Thomas Crown”:

I repeat: Should the entire American Left fall over dead tomorrow, I would rejoice, and order pizza to celebrate. They are not my countrymen; they are animals who happen to walk upright and make noises that approximate speech. They are below human. I look forward to seeing each and every one in Hell.

Ann Coulter:

LINDA VESTER (host): You say you’d rather not talk to liberals at all?

COULTER: I think a baseball bat is the most effective way these days.

Bill O’Reilly

Hey, you know, if you want to ban military recruiting, fine, but I’m not going to give you another nickel of federal money. You know, if I’m the president of the United States, I walk right into Union Square, I set up my little presidential podium, and I say, “Listen, citizens of San Francisco, if you vote against military recruiting, you’re not going to get another nickel in federal funds. Fine. You want to be your own country? Go right ahead.”

And if Al Qaeda comes in here and blows you up, we’re not going to do anything about it. We’re going to say, look, every other place in America is off limits to you, except San Francisco. You want to blow up the Coit Tower? Go ahead.

Dean Franks:

I’ll make a deal with the Left: You wanna impeach President Bush? Go ahead. Knock yourself out. In fact, let’s just go to the polls and turn the whole government over to the Democrats. You wanna run the whole show? Fine. Elect Howard Dean President. End all surveillance against possible enemy combatants, unless you can get a warrant based on probable cause. Withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan immediately. Permanently kill the PATRIOT Act. Do whatever you want to do. I’m perfectly willing, at this point, to do it your way.

I mean, really, what’s the worst that can happen? An American city goes up in nuclear fire? Well, it’ll probably be New York, Chicago, or LA. You know, a major city. I don’t live there, nor do most Americans. So we’ll be fine.

But here’s the other half of the deal: If that happens, we get to march on Washington, drag you naked and screaming from your offices, and hang you from the ornate lampposts that line The Mall. Then, free from roadblocks thrown up by infantile political fools, maybe we’ll get serious about defending the United States, her people, her freedoms, and her values, in an increasingly hostile world.

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

I am absolutely convinced that God is far from finished with the story of the United States of America. … First of all, [there’s] the matter of the little battle that must be fought, just as it was in the 19th century." There were, and are, "two incompatible moral visions for this country. We had to settle it then. We’re going to have to settle it now. I hope not with blood, not with guns, but we’re going to have to settle it nonetheless. The good news is that I think our side is finally ready to settle it. Roll up its sleeves, take off its jacket, and get a little bloody. Spill a little blood. We’ll settle it. And we’ll win. And then there’s no holding us back.

Rep. Jim Gibbons, R-Nev.:

While praising the efforts of American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, Gibbons accused liberals, movie stars and song makers of “trying to divide this country.”

“I say we tell those liberal, tree-hugging, Birkenstock-wearing, hippie, tie-dyed liberals to go make their movies and their music and whine somewhere else,” he told the crowd, according to the Elko Daily Free Press.

He then said it was “too damn bad we didn’t buy them a ticket” to become human shields in Iraq.

His comments came a week after he apologized for calling those who oppose corporate donations for President Bush’s inaugural parties “communists.”

Ann Coulter:

“My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building.”

“We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed too.”

“They are either traitors or idiots, and on the matter of America’s self-preservation, the difference is irrelevant. Fifty years of treason hasn’t slowed them down.”

“We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.”

“God said … rape the planet – it’s yours. That’s our job: drilling, mining and striping. Sweaters are the anti-Biblical view. Big gas-guzzling cars with phones and CD players and wet bars – that’s the Biblical view.”

“I have to say I’m all for public flogging.”

“I think [women] should be armed but should not [be allowed to] vote.”

“Liberals hate America, they hate flag-wavers, they hate abortion opponents, they hate all religions except Islam, post 9/11. Even Islamic terrorists don’t hate America like liberals do. They don’t have the energy. If they had that much energy, they’d have indoor plumbing by now.”

“My libertarian friends are probably getting a little upset now but I think that’s because they never appreciate the benefits of local fascism.”

“In this recurring nightmare of a presidency, we have a national debate about whether he [Clinton] ‘did it,’ even though all sentient people know he did. Otherwise there would be debates only about whether to impeach or assassinate.”

Daniel Kish, a senior adviser to Rep. Richard Pombo, R-Calif., in an email:

“Connecticut should have its statehood taken away from it. The foolishness of its pampered residents should be demonstrated to others by a government program to bulldoze the entire state, salt the land and construct a windfarm to supply NYC with electricity. And its residents should be relocated to Guantanamo Bay where they can take a number behind the 3 who hung themselves this weekend, since they seem so intent on suicide.”

Joe M. Richardson, letter to Editor and Publisher:

The duped soldier should be put at the very front of the action, no armor. The cooperating sergeant’s career should be over and maybe become MIA. Pitts and all his cronies should be executed as traitors. We are fighting a war, the debate is over, you’re either for us or against us, there is no middle ground. I say start executing the leftists in our country, soon.

E-mail to Colorado Rep. Terrance Carroll:

You are so SOOOO lucky lynching and the firing squad for treason aren’t available punishments anymore . . . I’d vote you in, in a heartbeat . . . "

“Enjoy Hell, Yellow Belly,” the e-mail continued. “It takes a patriotic man to represent his country, and Sir, you are neither patriotic . . . nor a man.”

Rep. Peter King:

And Joe Wilson has no right to complain. And I think people like Tim Russert and the others, who gave this guy such a free ride and all the media, they’re the ones to be shot, not Karl Rove.

Derik L. Jobe, in a letter to the editor:

I am a United States sailor. I have chosen to defend my country and the freedom some take for granted.

I love my country, my family, my freedom. Only by the blood which was shed by the service members before me did we receive this freedom.

There are some, though, who do not appreciate this freedom. I call these people traitors; they call themselves protesters. They are nothing more than an infectious disease that infests the minds and hearts of the Americans we are defending. It consumes the honor and courage within its host until it kills the very patriotism that made this country.

There is no cure for this disease. Never will everyone be satisfied. But let it be known what this guardian of America’s freedom thinks of these protesters: Traitors should be hanged. I hold our enemies in higher standing. At least they are willing to fight for their beliefs and the country they love.

Sonar Technician
Derik L.Jobe
U.S. Navy

Mark Byron:

A paramilitary organization calling itself the Christian Liberation Front changed the balance of power in Washington by a pair of brutal attacks this afternoon. A force estimated at about 200 CLF commandos stormed the Supreme Court building, killing 35 people, including five Supreme Court Justices. At the same time, a contingent of 1,000 CLF paramilitaries attacked the Hart Senate Office Building, where a Senate Democratic Caucus meeting was being held. Approximately 50 people were killed in the attack. Once the commandos had seized the building, they systematically killed Democratic senators from states with Republican governors.

Bill O’Reilly:

Where does George Soros have all his money? Do you know? Do you know where George Soros, the big left-wing loon who’s financing all these smear [web]sites, do you know where his money is? Curaçao. Curaçao. They ought to hang this Soros guy.

IMAO:

So what do we do with these idiots who annoy us?

Mass slaughter you say?

No, though we can easily do that, we need to find solution more tolerant, such as showing them the errors of their ways. …

Carefully Explain the Errors in Their Logic: They think Bush is like Hitler, so show them the difference. Have them wear a sign in front of the Whitehouse saying, “I hate the government.” and then have them wear the same sign in some country like Syria. Maybe they’ll understand the difference in the moments before death.

“Sock” Sokolowski, to Stephanie Miller:

As with Cindy Sheehan the best thing that could happen to you would be seeing some WONDERFUL activist sticking an AK-47 up your Glory Holes and sending you into eternity. But this is not a threat as I am a paci-fist preferring to confront dumb fucks like you two with words rather than violence. But I would gather my 1st amendment rights permit me to HOPE (!) and PRAY (!) that someone decides you’re better off as statistics. Honestly, should I hear of either you leaving this earth prematurely I would initiate a personal celebration that would make Animal House appear to be just another quiet Sunday in church.

… Therefore, I trust the both of you mother fuckers will continue to show yourselves on TV shows, exposure to more and more people, as GUARANTEED your words will someday possibly accelerate your demise again not on my hand but by someone who believes in such finalizing action. … Would love to celebrate and would for days one end as I always would and will when still another America HATER meets his/her maker.

Letter to Al Neuharth after his criticism of the war:

The Patriot Act will put both of you (Neuharth and Greg Mitchell) on trial for treason and convict and execute both of you as traitors for running these stories in a time of war and it should be done on TV for other communist traitors like you two to know we mean business. This is war and you should be put in prison NOW for talking like this. Who the hell do you people think you are? You give aid and comfort to our enemies and aid them in murdering our proud soldiers. You people are a disgrace to America. Your families should be put in prison with you, then be made to leave and move to the Middle East …This is a great Christian nation and god wants us to lead the world out of darkness with great leaders like President George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Communists like Al and Greg will soon be in prison and on death row for your ugly papers. We won the election and now you are mad. We own America and all the rights, you people are trash, go back to Russia and Africa and take your friends with before we put you on death row after a fair trial.

Commenter at ‘Shot in the Dark’:

The only “common ground” we’ll ever find with the blue state scum is the battleground, when we finally cut the shit and put all the enemies of this nation to the pike. It can not come too soon.

… Have fun spending your vast wealth when you are dead. Other countries will be happy to sell you potash and soybeans. But you’ll all be dead, so they might balk at the terms.

“J. Baker, Phoenix”:

You people are utterly useless to humanity and wholly better off dead, burning in eternal damnation.

Ya know, I think it’s too bad that we can’t follow Saddam’s model of dealing with opposition - just open up mass graves and start torturing, maiming, and murdering liberals and leftists by the millions - toss them into the ground, and fill the holes up with dirt. I would love to volunteer for such duty!

Eat shit and die, all of you!

B: Identification of opponents with national enemies

Michael Barone:

Our covert enemies are harder to identify, for they live in large numbers within our midst. And in terms of intentions, they are not enemies in the sense that they consciously wish to destroy our society. On the contrary, they enjoy our freedoms and often call for their expansion. But they have also been working, over many years, to undermine faith in our society and confidence in its goodness. These covert enemies are those among our elites who have promoted the ideas labeled as multiculturalism, moral relativism and (the term is Professor Samuel Huntington’s) transnationalism.

At the center of their thinking is a notion of moral relativism. No idea is morally superior to another. Hitler had his way, we have ours – who’s to say who is right? No ideas should be “privileged,” especially those that have been the guiding forces in the development and improvement of Western civilization. Rich white men have imposed their ideas because of their wealth and through the use of force. Rich white nations imposed their rule on benighted people of color around the world. For this sin of imperialism they must forever be regarded as morally stained and presumptively wrong. Our covert enemies go quickly from the notion that all societies are morally equal to the notion that all societies are morally equal except ours, which is worse.

… We have always had our covert enemies, but their numbers were few until the 1960s. But then the elite young men who declined to serve in the military during the Vietnam War set out to write a narrative in which they, rather than those who obeyed the call to duty, were the heroes. They have propagated their ideas through the universities, the schools and mainstream media to the point that they are the default assumptions of millions. Our covert enemies don’t want the Islamo-fascists to win. But in some corner of their hearts, they would like us to lose.

Dinesh d’Souza:

“There is no way to restore the culture without winning the war on terror. Conversely, the only way to win the war on terror is to win the culture war. Thus we arrive at a sobering truth. In order to crush the Islamic radicals abroad, we must defeat the enemy at home.”

Glenn Beck:

With that being said, you are a Democrat. You are saying, “Let’s cut and run.” And I have to tell you, I have been nervous about this interview with you, because what I feel like saying is, “Sir, prove to me that you are not working with our enemies.”

And I know you’re not. I’m not accusing you of being an enemy, but that’s the way I feel, and I think a lot of Americans will feel that way.

Bill O’Reilly:

Everybody got it? Dissent, fine; undermining, you’re a traitor. Got it? So, all those clowns over at the liberal radio network, we could incarcerate them immediately. Will you have that done, please? Send over the FBI and just put them in chains, because they, you know, they’re undermining everything and they don’t care, couldn’t care less.

Michael Reagan:

“Howard Dean should be arrested and hung for treason or put in a hole until the end of the Iraq war!”

Erich “Mancow” Muller and Brian Kilmeade, Fox News and Friends, Dec. 6, 2005:

MULLER: Guys, I do want to do one serious thing today. Howard Dean ought to be kicked out of America.

KILMEADE: Absolutely.

MULLER: He ought to be tried for treason. He is the enemy. These people, these Dummy-crats – I’m not a Republican. I’m a Libertarian –

DOOCY: What did he say, Mancow, this time?

MULLER: He said yesterday – it was late-breaking news – I, – I’ve never done this before in my life – I was calling radio shows. I’ve never done that. I called Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes last night [saying]: “You guys gotta get on this. Howard Dean said we’re going to lose the war.”

KILMEADE: Yeah.

MULLER: This is the head of the Democrats!

HILL: Hey, Mancow –

MULLER: These people want every boy to die. They’re bloodthirsty animals. Howard Dean is a vile human being. I can’t believe it.

David Horowitz:

Make no mistake about it, there is a war going on in this country. The aggressors in this war are Democrats, liberals and leftists who began a scorched earth campaign against President Bush before the initiation of hostilities in Iraq.

Karl Rove:

“Has there ever been a more revealing moment this year?” Mr. Rove asked. “Let me just put this in fairly simple terms: Al Jazeera now broadcasts the words of Senator Durbin to the Mideast, certainly putting our troops in greater danger. No more needs to be said about the motives of liberals.”

Bob Newman:

In a statement that has angered, embarrassed and humiliated Marines around the globe, one of our own – a retired Marine Corps Reserve colonel – has called for the legendary fighting force to retreat from Iraq and surrender to the terrorist organization that has killed thousands of Americans at home and abroad. He has even called for the United States to enter into negotiations with al Qaeda. This vermin’s demand for retreat, surrender and negotiations with the enemy is so committed to assisting al Qaeda in their efforts in Iraq that he has posted his unspeakable demands on his website in the form of an official statement.

The traitor, Democratic Rep. John P. Murtha, agrees 100% with Osama bin Laden and Abu Musab al Zarqawi that the Marine Corps, which is mangling the enemy on a daily basis in Iraq and suffering comparatively light casualties, should lay down its arms, call it quits, and abandon the people they are defending in the fledgling democracy of Iraq.

Furious Marines from wars as far back as World War II are spitting mad at the cowardly colonel and many want his head on a stake in the middle of the Marine Corps Commandant’s lawn. Personally, I would not soil that good earth with so vile and despicable a piece of offal.

“Misha,” the “Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler”:

'Cept number 2 is absolutely right. Keep up this pandering to every treasonous twit that chooses to aid and comfort our enemies, and we’re going to have a LOT of dead Americans before people wake up and realize that we’re at war.

You may think that people encouraging our enemies to continue fighting by showing them that they have an effect is “harmless”, John, but you’d be wrong. Dead wrong.

Put it this way: What do you think would’ve happened if people had turned out in the streets in, say, 1942, demanding that we surrender to Nazi Germany and the Nips? You think that we’d have just coddled them and chastised anybody calling them traitors for “stifling their freedom of speech”?

We’re at war. Keep denying it if you must, but it’ll only make the awakening to reality all that much more painful, because there IS no “opting out” of this one.

Amber Pawlik:

I don’t really consider the Democrat party a party of the people anymore, nor do I consider the socialist Democrats (they are not “liberal”, that’s just a euphemism for socialist anymore) “nice people who are misguided.” I consider them to be pure, raw evil, who want to destroy everything rational or beautiful in sight: success, prosperity, even the very security of the country.

KVI’s John Carlson, discussing Sen. Dick Durbin:

This man is simply a piece of excrement, a piece of waste that needs to be scraped off the sidewalk and eliminated.

Rush Limbaugh:

Dick Durbin has just identified who the Democrats are in the year 2005, particularly when it comes to American national security and when it comes to the US military. These are the same people they say they support the troops. This is how they do it, huh? They give aid and comfort to the enemy. They make it possible for Mullah Omar and bin Laden, whoever else is out there still alive, to laugh themselves silly at us. Mogadishu all over. Remember what bin Laden said after we cut and run out of Mogadishu? “That’s when I knew the US was a paper tiger, that’s when I knew they didn’t have the guts, that’s when I knew they couldn’t take casualties,” and that’s what fueled his planning for 9/11. He has said so. So, bammo! Here you go, Dick Durbin. Thanks once again for telling our enemies just what a bunch of soft patty cakes we are and how we’ll back away from our own treatment of people much less back away from dishing it out to people like our enemies.

C: Identification of opponents as a target for retaliation or incarceration

Ann Coulter:

Patriotic Americans don’t have to become dangerous psychotics like liberals, but they could at least act like men.

Why hasn’t the former spokesman for the Taliban matriculating at Yale been beaten even more senseless than he already is? According to Hollywood, this nation is a cauldron of ethnic hatreds positively brimming with violent skinheads. Where are the skinheads when you need them? What does a girl have to do to get an angry, club- and torch-wielding mob on its feet?

Melanie Morgan: “We’ve got a bull’s-eye painted on [Nancy Pelosi’s] big, wide laughing eyes.”

Glenn Beck:

All you Muslims who have sat on your frickin’ hands the whole time and have not been marching in the streets and have not been saying, ‘Hey, you know what? There are good Muslims and bad Muslims. We need to be the first ones in the recruitment office lining up to shoot the bad Muslims in the head.’ I’m telling you, with God as my witness… human beings are not strong enough, unfortunately, to restrain themselves from putting up razor wire and putting you on one side of it. When things – when people become hungry, when people see that their way of life is on the edge of being over, they will put razor wire up and just based on the way you look or just based on your religion, they will round you up. Is that wrong? Oh my gosh, it is Nazi, World War II wrong, but society has proved it time and time again: It will happen.

Ann Coulter:

Those few abortionists were shot, or, depending on your point of view, had a procedure with a rifle performed on them. I’m not justifying it, but I do understand how it happened… The number of deaths attributed to Roe v. Wade about 40 million aborted babies and seven abortion clinic workers; 40 million to seven is also a pretty good measure of how the political debate is going.

Kathleen Parker:

Miller is not alone, though some are more sanguine when it comes to evaluating the roster of contenders. Here’s a note I got recently from a friend and former Delta Force member, who has been observing American politics from the trenches: “These bastards like Clark and Kerry and that incipient ass, Dean, and Gephardt and Kucinich and that absolute mental midget Sharpton, race baiter, should all be lined up and shot.”

“Emperor Misha,” after publishing another blogger’s home address:

Not saying anything in specific, mind you, but we’d be damn careful about showing our face in public if we were you. You just never know who that perfect stranger behind you in that alleyway might be. Could be a sibling or other relative of one of the fallen soldiers that you just took a dump on the grave of, and G-d only knows what might happen then.

Eric may not be famous enough to be a pick for the 2004 Dead Pool, but there’s another signed Imperial Mug for the first LC to inform me that Eric Blumrich has died in a “tragic” accident.

Accidents DO happen, you know, and that’s the kind of news that would definitely make my entire day.

Caller to Jerry Klein’s Washington, D.C., radio talk show:

Not only do you tattoo them in the middle of their forehead but you ship them out of this country … they are here to kill us."

Another said that tattoos, armbands and other identifying markers such as crescent marks on driver’s licenses, passports and birth certificates did not go far enough. “What good is identifying them?” he asked. “You have to set up encampments like during World War Two with the Japanese and Germans.”

Daniel Pipes:

Leftist and Islamist organizations have so successfully intimidated public opinion that polite society shies away from endorsing a focus on Muslims.

In America, this intimidation results in large part from a revisionist interpretation of the evacuation, relocation, and internment of ethnic Japanese during World War II. Although more than 60 years past, these events matter yet deeply today, permitting the victimization lobby, in compensation for the supposed horrors of internment, to condemn in advance any use of ethnicity, nationality, race, or religion in formulating domestic security policy.

“Border Guardian” Laine Lawless, in an e-mail to neo-Nazis describing ways they can harass Latinos:

– “Steal the money from any illegal walking into a bank or check cashing place.”

– “Make every illegal alien feel the heat of being a person without status. … I hear the rednecks in the South are beating up illegals as the textile mills have closed. Use your imagination.”

– “Discourage Spanish-speaking children from going to school. Be creative.”

– "Create an anonymous propaganda campaign warning that any further illegal immigrants will be shot, maimed or seriously messed-up upon crossing the border. This should be fairly easy to do, considering the hysteria of the Spanish language press, and how they view the Minutemen as ‘racists & vigilantes.’ "

Little Green Footballs commenter “really grumpy”:

Whether or not the street knows it – and they don’t – we are now in the early phases of the fight for our existence as a nation, and as the standard-bearers of the idea of democracy.

We have most of the EU and a good portion of NATO aligned against us – the old school appeasers of Europe – and most of the Arabic nations, and third-world oppressor nations as well. They are starting to sense a common ground of opposition to our position, which is one of self-determination of man.

That is very dangerous to all these folks, as they represent the dictator and dictator-enabler; the rapists and the voyeurs who profit from the rapes of mankind.

This war won’t be quick, or easy. We will undoubtedly end up being forced to kill off some of our own citizens in order to protect the ideas set down by our framers over 200 hundred years ago.

It’s happening now, and suddenly, and we are right in the midst of it. It is going to get bloody and scary and desperate before all is finished and a victor emerges.

Free Republic poster, referring to antiwar activists in California:

Fuckin Leftist traitors break the law and think they should get away with it?! FUCK YOU YA GODDAMN LEFTIST PUKES AND DON’T EVEN THINK OF FUCKING WITH FREE REPUBLIC MOTHERFUCKERS!

WE WILL BEAT YOU DOWN IN THE STREETS NEXT FALL!!!

The same commenter later promised:

If I see you or any of your comrades from Dem Underground I will kick the living shit out of you you filthy faggotcunt traitor

DO NOT IDENTIFY YOURSELF AS LEFTIST OUT ON THE STREET YOU PIECE OF SHIT OR YOU WILL BE BEATEN UNCONSCIOUS YOU GODDAM ENEMY OF AMERICA!!!

Dean Esmay:

When I say “treason” I don’t mean it in an insulting or hyperbolic way. I mean in a literal way: we need to find these 21st century Julius Rosenbergs, these modern day reincarnations of Alger Hiss, put them on trial before a jury of their peers, with defense counsel. When they are found guilty, we should then hang them by the neck until the are dead, dead, dead.

No sympathy. No mercy.Am I angry? You bet I am. But not in an explosive way. Just in the same seething way I was angry on 9/11.

These people have endangered American lives and American security. They need to be found, tried, and executed.

D: Expressing a desire for or approval of genocide or murder

Mark Steyn

Why did Bosnia collapse into the worst slaughter in Europe since World War Two? In the thirty years before the meltdown, Bosnian Serbs had declined from 43 percent to 31 percent of the population, while Bosnian Muslims had increased from 26 percent to 44 percent. In a democratic age, you can’t buck demography – except through civil war. The Serbs figured that out – as other Continentals will in the years ahead: if you can’t outbreed the enemy, cull 'em. The problem that Europe faces is that Bosnia’s demographic profile is now the model for the entire continent.

Glenn Reynolds

Civilized societies have found it harder, though, to beat the barbarians without killing all, or nearly all, of them. Were it really to become all-out war of the sort that Osama and his ilk want, the likely result would be genocide — unavoidable, and provoked, perhaps, but genocide nonetheless, akin to what Rome did to Carthage, or to what Americans did to American Indians. That’s what happens when two societies can’t live together, and the weaker one won’t stop fighting — especially when the weaker one targets the civilians and children of the stronger. This is why I think it’s important to pursue a vigorous military strategy now. Because if we don’t, the military strategy we’ll have to follow in five or ten years will be light-years beyond “vigorous.”

Glenn Reynolds:

… [I]t’s also true that if democracy can’t work in Iraq, then we should probably adopt a “more rubble, less trouble” approach to other countries in the region that threaten us. If a comparatively wealthy and secular Arab country can’t make it as a democratic republic, then what hope is there for places that are less wealthy, or less secular?

Michael Savage:

Right now, even people sitting on the fence would like George Bush to drop a nuclear weapon on an Arab country. They don’t even care which one it would be. I can guarantee you – I don’t need to go to Mr. Schmuck [pollster John] Zogby and ask him his opinion. I don’t need anyone’s opinion. I’ll give you my opinion, because I got a better stethoscope than those fools. It’s one man’s opinion based upon my own analysis. The most – I tell you right now – the largest percentage of Americans would like to see a nuclear weapon dropped on a major Arab capital. They don’t even care which one. They’d like an indiscriminate use of a nuclear weapon.

In fact, Christianity has been one of the great salvations on planet Earth. It’s what’s necessary in the Middle East. Others have written about it, I think these people need to be forcibly converted to Christianity but I’ll get here a little later, I’ll move up to that. It’s the only thing that can probably turn them into human beings. … Because these primitives can only be treated in one way, and I don’t think smallpox and a blanket is good enough incidentally. Just before – I’m going to give you a little precursor to where I’m going. Smallpox in a blanket, which the U.S. Army gave to the Cherokee Indians on their long march to the West, was nothing compared to what I’d like to see done to these people, just so you understand that I’m not going to be too intellectual about my analysis here in terms of what I would recommend, what Doc Savage recommends as an antidote to this kind of poison coming out of the Middle East from these non-humans.

Michael Savage, referring to the victims of the December 2004 tsunami:

You could take the argument that it’s God’s will, it’s too bad and let’s move on. And then let others help them. They’re not in our sphere of interest. Primarily, they hate our guts in plain English. All right, well, the argument is, well, if you send them money, they’re gonna like us, show 'em we’re not anti-Muslim. That is such rubbish. That is such rubbish. They’re gonna hate you anyhow, no matter what we ever do.

[…]

It’s not a tragedy. I wouldn’t call it a tragedy. It’s a human disaster. It’s not a tragedy in that sense. But, the issue is, theological questions suddenly arise. … Now, for you atheists, you have no questions about this. It’s a pure accident of nature. You don’t ask yourself, “Was it God’s hand?”

Various Minutemen:

“It should be legal to kill illegals,” said Carl, a 69-year old retired Special Forces veteran who fought in Vietnam and now lives out West. “Just shoot 'em on sight. That’s my immigration policy recommendation. You break into my country, you die.”

“I agree completely,” Michael said. “You get up there with a rifle and start shooting four or five of them a week, the other four or five thousand behind them are going to think twice about crossing that line.”

Minuteman Craig Howard

No, we ought to be able to shoot the Mexicans on sight, and that would end the problem. After two or three Mexicxans are shot, they’ll stop crossing the border and they’ll take their cows home, too.

Vox Day, regarding the mass deportation of all illegal aliens:

Not only will it work, but one can easily estimate how long it would take. If it took the Germans less than four years to rid themselves of 6 million Jews, many of whom spoke German and were fully integrated into German society, it couldn’t possibly take more than eight years to deport 12 million illegal aliens, many of whom don’t speak English and are not integrated into American society.

E: Identification with vermin or disease

“radar”:

We can learn from Buffalo, New York. Now in Buffalo the rat problem in the city was a huge one. Exterminators could not handle the problem. But then in 2001 the city mandated that everyone would have to begin using special anti-rat garbage totes that the rats could not open. With no way to get to the garbage, the rats left Buffalo. Now, they went to the suburbs and now the suburbs are fighting them. But it is no longer a problem for the people of Buffalo, New York. Here is how to do the same with our problem:

  1. No services.

Absolutely no services of any kind for those who cannot prove they are in the country legally. Nothing but emergency medical care. Without all the social services, medical and other services provided for them, the illegals will find life here less attractive.

  1. No schools.

Absolutely no schooling for anyone who cannot prove they belong here legally.

  1. No easy birthright.

Change the law. Now, if you are born here, you are a citizen. I say, if you cannot prove that you were born here and that your mother was here legally at the time, then your citizenship is that of the mother and not of the USA.

  1. No legal status. No drivers licenses. No bank accounts. No ability to sue a citizen. No legal standing for anyone who is in this country illegally.

  2. No free lunch for “The Man”.

Make it a criminal offense (and enforce it if it is already on the books) to hire an illegal alien, or to rent a dwelling place to him, or to sell him a home knowing that he intends to live there. Make employers provide documentation for all of their workers. You put the onus on “The Man” and it suddenly becomes less appealing to take advantage of the illegals.

THE RATS WILL GO SOMEWHERE ELSE

Glenn Reynolds [referencing Muslim mothers reluctant to obtain certain immunizations]: “Just think of it as evolution in action.”

Minuteman Ted Hayes:

“They’re teaching Middle Easterners Spanish, teaching them how to dress Hispanic, and now they’re all over this country, and Lord knows what they’ll do.” He says illegal aliens are draining the health-care system, bankrupting hospitals and crowding schools. As a former law-enforcement officer, Hayes says, the thing that really burns him is the impact on public safety.

“They’re in vehicular accidents where they leave the scene or have no insurance,” he says. “Rapes, robberies, killing cops and running back to their home country – these people are breaking the law every day they’re here. They’re 10 percent of the nation’s crime, and our prisons are full of them.”

Michael Savage:

And I say also, No. 2, to the politicians, I warn you personally. You will not be re-elected. If you take to the streets with the vermin who are trying to dictate to us how we should run America, even though they’re not even entitled to vote or be here, you’re going to be thrown out of office. The people will throw you out of office. There are not enough of them to re-elect you. You will be out of a job. You will not have a living. You will be hunting for a job. Maybe, you’ll be picking the vegetables.

Grover Norquist:

This should not surprise us. Expect the crescendo to grow through 2004. The other team isn’t being unreasonable. It is reacting rationally to a real threat to its ability to function. Anything short of placing snipers on the rooftops of D.C. would be an underreaction by the Left.

Cornered rats fight. Hard.

F: All of the above

Mike Thompson, Reason, “Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal”:

For many decades, conservative citizens and like-minded political leaders (starting with President Calvin Coolidge) have been denigrated by the vilest of lies and characterizations from hordes of liberals who now won’t even admit that they are liberals–because the word connotes such moral stink and political silliness. As a class, liberals no longer are merely the vigorous opponents of the Right; they are spiteful enemies of civilization’s core decency and traditions.

Defamation, never envisioned by our Founding Fathers as being protected by the First Amendment, flourishes and passes today for acceptable political discourse. Movies, magazines, newspapers, radio/TV programs, plays, concerts, public schools, colleges, and most other public vehicles openly traffic in slander and libel. Hollywood salivated over the idea of placing another golden Oscar into Michael Moore’s fat hands, for his Fahrenheit 9/11 jeremiad, the most bogus, deceitful film documentary since Herr Hitler and Herr Goebbels gave propaganda a bad name.

When they tire of showering conservative victims with ideological mud, liberals promote the only other subjects with which they feel conversationally comfortable: Obscenity and sexual perversion. It’s as if the genes of liberals have rendered them immune to all forms of filth.

… The truth is, America is not just broken – it is becoming irreparable. If you believe that recent years of uncivil behavior are burdensome, imagine the likelihood of a future in which all bizarre acts are the norm, and a government-booted foot stands permanently on your face.

That is why the unthinkable must become thinkable. If the so-called “Red States” (those that voted for George W. Bush) cannot be respected or at least tolerated by the “Blue States” (those that voted for Al Gore and John Kerry), then the most disparate of them must live apart – not by secession of the former (a majority), but by expulsion of the latter. Here is how to do it.

John Shelley:

Instead of sitting around, incessantly sniping at President Bush and the US Military, sipping “liberal coward broth”, hating America and Conservatives, the wacko liberal poison Left-Wing Nuts — and the rest of The Enemy Within™ — should be rounded-up and put into “re-education camps” and forced to watch 24 hour, non-stop TV news footage of 9-11, Sodomy Insane’s rape/torture/murder rooms and the unearthing of Iraqi mass graves. Those hard-core Lefty wacko filth who can’t be converted, should be summarily tried and locked away for life; no chance of parole. They’re a waste of oxygen and a “clear and present danger” to America, as is the murderous, degenerate cult of Islam. Free and unfettered speech is guaranteed under the First Amendment, but actively working and trying to destroy this Nation, in a time of war, when our very lives are in peril, is a treasonous and seditious offense, and should be treated as such, and punished by death. The much-maligned Patriot Act provides for that very situation, and should be implemented post haste. All verminous, hate-America, liberal-socialist-commie filth should be contained and selectively eliminated.

Adam Yoshida:

The enemy we are facing has several columns. Of these, the fifth is the strongest. Last week I discussed how, contrary to reports in the mainstream media, we are winning in Iraq. The problem is this: we can win ten thousand battles in Iraq and still lose the war. Ultimately, the question of victory or defeat will not be decided over there, but here at home. The one enemy which can defeat the United States is the one enemy that all of those brave soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen cannot meet upon the field of battle. The real enemy is the enemy within.

… I fully realize that my assertion of this doctrine will set some to screaming about the right of ‘dissent’. Well, as to that, let me say this. The right to ‘dissent’ is the right to remain silent, to disagree, to not participate. That is a natural right which is retained by every single human being under any condition. There is no right, however, to attempt to incite others to join you in undermining the efforts of a national at war. That is not dissent: it is sedition. There is no right to speak out in support of an enemy of the nation. That is no dissent: it is treason.

We have seen this before, in Vietnam. Those who we fight here at home will abuse freedom in order to destroy it. They claim the mantle of liberalism and the protections that it affords in order to attack liberal society. That is the question before us now: can we allow those who mean to destroy the Constitution to cloak themselves in it?

The enemy at home is well-entrenched and means to fight us to the death. Will we allow them to betray freedom again, as they did in Vietnam? Never! When I think of Vietnam, I can hear but two words echoing in the distance, ‘never again.’ Never again will we allow our forces to win a war on the fields of battle only to see that victory thrown away by the traitors and cowards at home and never again will we allow the shame of defeat to stain American honor.

Under the cover of darkness the enemy is on the move. They will strike at dawn. We have no option but to fight them, meet them, and ultimately destroy them. Our soldiers over there are doing there job, why do we not do our job? They have the courage to march into Islamist guns. Have we not the courage to deal with the traitors and seditionists who would stab our brave forces in the back?

Sometimes I think that the treason is so deeply ingrained in our society that nothing short of martial law, the suspension of habeas corpus, and the repeal of Posse Comitatus will do. Sometimes I think that we will need to think to the Revolution, where Tories and other traitors were dealt with harshly by a righteous people. I hope that I am wrong, but I do not deny the possibility.

This is too important to be dealt with civilly. Civility will bring us only defeat. We need to recall the spirit of those construction workers in New York City who, upon seeing a treason rally after the invasion of Cambodia, charged into the protests with their fists flying. The next time you see a person walking down a street with an anti-war button, even if they are minding their own business, call them a name. Start a screaming match with them. If a relative if yours opposes the war, refuse to speak to them, except in support for the war. If a bookstore displays anti-war books in a prominent position, refuse to shop there and explain to the owners exactly why.

We will never win by denouncing the anti-war movement as a whole. Altogether, they are too powerful to be easily defeated. Rather, we need to drive anti-war sentiments underground by making it difficult to be anti-war. For example, if you know for a fact that the owner of a small business is opposed to the war, look for ways to hurt that specific small business. Boycotting a large company, even one with obvious liberal leanings like Ben and Jerry’s or a movie made by some jackass like Sean Penn is unlikely to have any real effect. Rather, hit the small people. Make those who oppose the war pay a price for their treasonous beliefs. If they own a little market, picket it. They might have a free speech right to oppose the war, but you have a free speech right to oppose them. I want them to lose their businesses, lose their jobs, go bankrupt, and lose their homes. Given their great efforts against America, that is the least deserved by everyone who opposes the war. Stop thinking of people who oppose the war as your friends, family, and neighbours: start thinking of them as enemies of America who must be defeated if the Republic is to endure.

ADDENDUM

Eliminationist book titles:

Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism, by Ann Coulter

Deliver Us From Evil: Defeating Terrorism, Despotism and Liberalism, by Sean Hannity

The Enemy Within: Saving America from the Liberal Assault on Our Schools, Faith, and Military, by Michael Savage

Liberalism is a Mental Disorder, by Michael Savage

The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its Responsibility for 9/11, by Dinesh d’Souza

Late,
grmpysmrf

HAHAHA!!! Say what you guys want about Grumpy. But don’t ever say he ain’t thorough.

I gave up when I realized there was 50 pages of that stuff, but there really is some pretty sick quotes in there, Grumps. I’ve always hated Rush Limbaugh, but that crap with him talking about how he got giggly over the capture (and probably eventual execution) of the Christian peace activists just makes me feel like vomiting.

There’s some real creeps out there, that’s for sure.

HAHAHA!!! Say what you guys want about Grumpy. But don’t ever say he ain’t thorough.

Damn straight!
Late,
grmpysmrf

It has always cracked me up with these right-wing cheerleaders trying to paint the liberals as some evil monsters and equating them to terrorists.

That guy supports affirmative action, gay marriage rights, and more business regulation . . . HOLY CRAP!!! AL QAEDA!!!

Both sides are ridiculous, don’t get me wrong, but the right is definitely more visible (or consciously visible).

I really didn’t know anything about this Glenn Beck guy until about a year ago. I caught a few clips of him and thought he was just a parody or some purposeful joke (Grumpy, do you remember Wally George?). When I found out he was “legit” and that people actually took him seriously I was in disbelief.

As a parent, you can’t control other parents or their houses, classmates at school, etc. If you guys want to keep your babies locked up in your house, that is your business.

We (my immediate and extended family) grew up with guns in the house that were not locked up in safes, and we all survived into adulthood; however, I am from a completely different way of life than you big city slickers. People hunt for food as the primary use versus trophies for their walls.

As a parent, you can’t control other parents or their houses, classmates at school, etc. If you guys want to keep your babies locked up in your house, that is your business.

We (my immediate and extended family) grew up with guns in the house that were not locked up in safes, and we all survived into adulthood; however, I am from a completely different way of life than you big city slickers. People hunt for food as the primary use versus trophies for their walls.

OK, so you say that you are from a “completely different way of life” and yet you expect the rest of the world to fit your standard of conduct. Just because you or any of your friends didn’t get killed doesn’t make leaving unlocked guns in your house any less dangerous.

This has NOTHING to do with hunting for food versus hunting for sport. It has to do with behaving in an irresponsible manner.

YES, keeping unsecured guns in the house when children are present is COMPLETELY irresponsible. I suppose kidnappers shouldn’t be held accountable either since the victim’s parents should have done a better job of teaching the kid to avoid strangers.

Unbelievable.

It doesn’t matter what side he was; he doesn’t represent it.

But politicians, every opinion maker, must be very careful with their words and actions. And all this extreme militarized speech by some of the right wing is completely stupid and dangerous.

Btw. is there any liberal correspondent to the tea party? I never heard of them, but anyway doesn’t make sense to say that left is less dangerous than the right wing. History shows us many examples of left extremists groups. Everywhere we can find dumb people that don’t respect other people opinion and with a non constructive speech, full of hate, that can trigger this dumb, sick people who can easily pick up a gun and kill people.

Grmpy,
I pretty much only get to argue with conservatives here in OK, and I have to say you are exactly like every bat shit crazy right winger I talk to. Equally predictable and arrogant as the other.

So, You pulling the Olsen/Amlux card? just cause you say so it makes it true?

OK? Oklahoma? thought you said you were in California? You know, “business owner getting hit by the man… and taxes and stuff” Oklahoma explains alot now!

Your mind is made up without the possibility of being in any way errant.

That is NOT true. Sounds like you’re pissed because the same shit I hear on the news that comes by way of you still won’t change my mind. Why would it? I hear that drivel all the time. What? because you repeated some Bullshit on Fox and CNN and claim to be “Not republican” I’m supposed to, all of the sudden, accept this nonsense as facts?

That’s arrogance and the end of knowledge.

and if I was guilty of what you are charging me with that would apply to me.

When you’ve gotten to a point where you believe there is no possible way that you could be wrong and your view is 100% correct

I’m not there. As I’ve pointed out before, you’re going to have to do better than Tired RNC talking points.

and, not just your opinion is really close minded and as far from the definition of liberal as I can imagine.

let me go ahead and reprint this for you since you completely missed it. That way you won’t have to imagine the definition…

[quote]
LIBERAL:
favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.

of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.

[u]free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant[/u]

open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.

characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts: a liberal donor.

By simple definitions Liberals are not killers they are TOLERANT!

Tolerant people don’t kill others!!

Violence for a liberal is an oxymoron.

Conservative:

disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.

traditional in style or manner; avoiding novelty or showiness: conservative suit.

and they have no problem resorting to violence to keep the pathetic microcosms that they have fashioned for themselves intact.[/quote]

This guy’s friend has said he was quite liberal, yet there’s no way this could possibly be true because “liberals dont kill people, conservatives do”. I’m afraid you’ve forever lost credibility points there.

See the above definitions…
According to you I’ve never had credibility points… “labels” don’t mean shit… Fox and AM radio would have you believe all of the biggest dictators in history are Liberal when by very definition they are NOT.

Just like the right wingers, you’re constantly talking shit on the “MSM”, like you’re chosen conditioning station isn’t mainstream.

there’s the difference, I don’t have a chosen conditioning station I get my info from various sources rather than one station.

You do realize the news is a BUSINESS? They cater to their customers.

So is this you slamming the MSM does this mean you=me now?

Yes I realize that but still irks me that it caters to the right rather just reporting the facts

Also, how you can just be such an asshole to everyone because of politics?

from here I sit you guys are assholes to me…
But, Asshole because I hold a different view than you and can argue my position effectively? cause I don’t accept the bullshit that’s thrown around everyday?

I follow Politics like most people follow sports. So yeah I feel like I know a little bit. I suppose to the casual observer it comes off like “asshole” but just know it’s better ionformed.

Do you have any friends that don’t believe exactly as you do?

Quite a few. Even have some that are staunch coservative (constant fox viewers) but they don’t become all whiny bitches when the conversation goes more in depth than one round.

and despite what you think, I don’t always “win” but that’s cause they know their “Side” better than the lukewarm no thought that passes for “the other side” here! so yeah, I don’t expect to “lose” here because the best any one has here, is as the casual observer thinking I’m an asshole because I pay more attention than they.

If so, have you ever just laid into them like you do folks on this board?

Who have I laid into here? For example?

Yeah, it gets heated when I talk with them sometimes. but their not like the little bitches that cry on here when they can’t get passed one round of discussion because talking points.com hasn’t told them what to say past one round of challenge to thier ideology.

they get heated back but it’s never pesonal as many of you come at me when you start to “lose” or feel threatened. they just come with better arguments rahter than “you’re an asshole”

This is the equivelent of discussion here

grmpysmrf: “the sky is blue”

Pick your favorite grmpy hater: “grmpysmrf you’re as jaded a the rest of the people who say the sky is red”

grmpysmrf: "The sunlight interacting with the Earth’s atmosphere makes the sky blue. Sunlight consists of light waves of varying wavelengths, each of which is seen as a different color. The minute particles of matter and molecules of air in the atmosphere intercept and scatter the white light of the sun. A larger portion of the blue color in white light is scattered, more so than any other color because the blue wavelengths are the shortest…

Pick your favorite grmpy hater: “grmpysmrf you’re an asshole and you bully people!!! [pirate]”

Btw, did you really explain the tea party to me?

Did you ask? You need the tea party explained to you?
so for someone who doesn’t keep up with this stuff you’re quick to argue, interesting… Less is more… great!

were you that kid in class that would not read the chapter but knew more than the teacher? I suspect there are a few of those on here. you rarguments would carrry more weight had you actually read the chapter.

I said the guy COULD be tea party, I wasn’t saying that he wasn’t, only what I had read somewhere other than MSNBC.

He can’t be tea party and Liberal see the definition of liberal! I.E. read the chapter before you shout out and waste everybodies time!!!

To me it wont make a difference one way or the other.

So why are you arguing so vehemently?

That’s why I’m willing to sit back and let the facts come out before jumping to conclusions to suit my preconceived opinion.

there are already enough facts that have come out that are painting the picture. but I guess as the casual obsever you wouldn’t know that. he was politically motivated,

You remind me of homer when they are trying to sentence willie to jail for car jacking and the judge is handing out the sentence and keeps saying “let’s see how this plays out.”
[url http://www.simpsonslol.com/Watch_1207] the simpsons
at the 18:10 mark

“all governement bad, take my country back, Blah Blah Blah.”
I wouldn’t expect you to know that because everything you have been saying here has been the right’s typical “NOT OUR FAULT!” narrative that has been bleeting endlessly since this happened!

If that guy were Liberal he probably would’ve voted for that congress woman rather than shooting her!
Late,
grmpysmrf

It doesn’t matter what side he was; he doesn’t represent it.

I don’t agree with this but this a much better argument/statment than anyone else has put forth here on the board… I’ll explain below.

But politicians, every opinion maker, must be very careful with their words and actions. And all this extreme militarized speech by some of the right wing is completely stupid and dangerous.

I agree, but seeing as how it’s the right that has been doing much if not all of the hate speech I don’t see how that guy didn’t represent the right.

Btw. is there any liberal correspondent to the tea party?

Not to my knowledge either.

but anyway doesn’t make sense to say that left is less dangerous than the right wing. History shows us many examples of left extremists groups.

by very definition of the left they can not possibly be dangerous

Everywhere we can find dumb people that don’t respect other people opinion and with a non constructive speech, full of hate, that can trigger this dumb, sick people who can easily pick up a gun and kill people.

I believe this, but somebody who really lives the liberal life is tolerant of others and understands their rights end when they encroach on the the rights of others.
Late,
grmpysmrf

Fascist.

Despite what he might think, I don’t hate Grmpysmrf. I’ve had some really cool ongoing discussions with the guy and it’s obvious he’s intelligent and knows his shit when it comes to politics - I will give him that much.

I want to like the guy. And I know for a fact that the other supposed ‘Grmpy Haters’ here - namely Olsen (not too sure about voidhead, don’t know where he stands on this issue but it’s clear that the two don’t exactly see eye to eye) actually want to like the guy too.

But when it comes to discussing matters of a political or social nature, that’s when things turn sour. I don’t mind not seeing eye to eye on an issue, even with close friends we often don’t agree on politics. But what I cannot stand is being bashed senseless everytime I try to offer an opinion on something and cannot support that opinion with a veritable library of facts. Just because I haven’t written a thesis on what view I am trying to express, does not mean that I should have to endure his bullying and sociopathic rants in my direction.

Me: This is what I think. This is my view on the subject that’s being discussed in this thread.

Grmpy: WRONG! WRONG WRONG! You are wrong on that opinion and where are your FACTS to support what you are saying? Why are you bothering to enter this debate with me? You cannot win! I have all the facts and all the knowledge and I will win. I will win! There is no other side to this debate than the side I am offering. I am clearly in command here. You are clearly way out of your depth, little man.

Me: Look, I have seen what I have seen on the television and read what what I have read in the newspapers and from that I have formed an opinion. Now that opinion may differ from your opinion but I still reserve that right to express it here freely without every single FUCKING SYLLABLE THAT I TYPE being dissected by you and made to feel like I’ve just gone 10 rounds in Fight Club. What the fuck is wrong with you when you…

Grmpy: WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! You are wrong and you are a whiny fucking bitch who I have no time for. Fuck off and don’t come back until your argument is sufficient enough to battle wits with the likes of me as I am all knowing on this subject.

Me: Fuck off jerk. Think I’ll go talk music with the other forum members who aren’t all about hijacking threads with their aggressive repertoire and lop sided logic. Why would I bother with you. I want to enjoy coming here. I won’t stand for being intimidated by the likes of you.

We all know that you have a considerable degree of knowledge on the subject of politics, Grmpy. Stop using that knowledge as a weapon. Just put your opinion across clearly and succinctly and be done with it. As kill face said, who wants to go ten rounds with someone whose mind is firmly made up and end up bloodied and bruised.

Grmpy no one wants to go past a second round with you because it’s utterly pointless. It’s hilarious that you think you’ve “won” anything around here. I would assume most people look at these threads when you get on your soapbox and move right along.

Yeah, yeah dodge the discussion… It’s cause you can’t.

Why would anyone want to get into a heated discussion with you on the internet? It’s tedious going through and editing all the replies/quotes. Maybe it’s easy for you to fly through it, but to the occasional forum visitor or non internet savvy (me), it’s painstaking.

OOOh it’s the forum that throws you off and nothing else… so why bother?

You need not reply and quote like me. I just do that because it’s easier for me and I prefer to direct comments to specific quotes

If we were in person, I’d have no problem going to round whatever with you, but most people, like me, don’t want to spend too much of their precious free time in a fruitless internet debate with someone they’ve never met and for what? What reward is in it for anyone? Why should anyone waste more than a few responses? You want these threads that you hijack to go on for 10 pages and stay at the top of a MUSIC forum day in and day out? No thanks.

Well, you’re helping to keep them there by continuing to respond. The reward is the discussion. You don’t want to participate? You don’t have to. No one else really participates except for you, olsen (not so much anymore), Peligro (not so much anymore), amlux, and prologue before he took his ball and went home.

I think you and the others are all about “winning” which is why you are so concerned with “shutting me down” as Olsen wrote the other time.

It’s not about winning. It’s about what you think and why you think the way you do. I never really get that from you five. I get “fuck you grmpy you’re an asshole.” So, I ask questions that challenge your beliefs or make comments that are contrary to what you think… why am I the ass? Your anger is not my problem, it’s your own. So own it and leave me out of it!

You got something worth discussing? bring it on. I’m happy to discuss it. But don’t come at me cause I’ve written something that’s put you out of your comfort zone.

So consider that a win for yourself.

I’m not looking for a “win,” just looking for an honest conversation with out all the name calling from the narrow minds. If you really believe the shit you say, then tell me why do. When I have questions for you about your belief structure they’re just questions or comments, so don’t gripe at me for being an ass.

I’m glad you’ve got that going for you. Another political internet victory for grmpysmrf! Endurance is great for runners and internet tough guys.

No you’re not, because a win for me means a loss for you and that means you’ve failed. Too bad we don’t look at this the same way, that way you wouldn’t act like a sore loser. IT’S NOT ABOUT WINNING OR LOSING!!!

(I happen to be a runner too though! [:)] )

Personally it’s crazy for ME to argue with you past a couple response bc you can’t keep from putting me in a box of conservatism.

I do no such thing! The responses that you give put you in a box of conservatism. So YOU put yourself into the conservative camp.

It’s like you hacking up teenagers and then get all butt hurt when I call you a killer and the best you can muster is” NOT UNGH!” and then you’re mad at me cause you don’t have a better defense!

It’s incorrect and incredibly irritating.

Well then explain yourself thoroughly instead repeating the shit that comes out of Fox or just sticking your tongue out and yelling “NOT UNNNNGHHG Meanie!"

On the majority of issues I would be labeled at least a democrat (which in Oklahoma, I am) and at most a liberal,

Why? I have yet to really see you type anything other than mostly conservative lines… Tell me why you think you’re more liberal?

You know, Fox has taken the news so far right that even the middle looks left to them and those that follow them. So are you really more democratic or are you just conservative lite? Cause from Where I’m reading, I don’t know of anything from you that even comes close left support.

and you still come at me like I’m a conservative because there are CERTAIN issues I believe they are correct on.

Seems to me you dig on all their issues but, because you’re not out protesting like the rest of them, that makes you not a serious conservative and there for liberal. Not so.

I’m registered independent and I’ve voted democrat more than I have republican. So I guess you’re right bc I don’t want to argue with someone who can’t understand where I’m coming from without applying some broad, all encompassing label to my forehead.

I’m trying to understand but you never explain yourself you just come at me personally. What alternatives have you given me? Just because you say you lean more democratic than Republican doesn’t make it so. Name one thing so far that we’ve discussed that you HAVEN’T taken the Conservative talking points on.

You come off as liberal ideologically only, in practice you seem more like those you rail against than you care to see.

How so? cause I know my beliefs and can defend them? I haven’t twisted anything I’m not calling for armed revolt. How am I even close to the same?

I’m not trying to shut you down or even convert you (or anybody) Just wanna know why you hold the beliefs that you do (anybody does) if my questions comments make you uncomfortable maybe it’s because you’re not all that thought out on the issues and it makes you uncomfortable… like I’m insulting you. I’m not. Prologue couldn’t understand that either and he ended up leaving.

Why would anyone care what you think or continue talking with you after you’ve taken this sort of political argument to a level where it is not in any way fun anymore?

I didn’t come out calling people assholes, I told Amlux to fuck off after started in on me personally with no merit to his name calling. But not his politics. He sticks to the topic I’m right there! I hold no ill will.

I bet most people are glad you get into politics more than sports so you can’t ruin that for them too.

I ruin politics? wow, I’m honored

I’ve gotten PMs from 3 different people (not amlux, peligro or olsen) who’ve asked me why I bother replying to you.

I’ve got Pms from 4 different people saying that all you guys do is bring the board down with your elitism… DO I win cause I have more?

One person said your troll nature has literally almost ruined prongs for them.

Yeah let them PM me and we’ll discuss it. Until then it’s just hearsay.

Why would you want that sort of reputation around here? Is it worth it to be the resident political browbeater?

Here we go again. Explain yourself. Don’t just type it… “Won’t you stop beating your wife Killface? Why do you wanna be a wife beater?”
See how shitty that is when I just throw that out there with out anything to go with it? That’s basically what you’re doing.

you know, I keep asking for examples of my browbeating and what not from you and the other mal-contents on the board but you never cite any? Why?

you just come at me with “stop running people over with your opinion” or some version of that.

I really, really hate to get political with you bc I truly want to like you.

Well, this is me dude. I’m not gonna change over and be fake to gain fans. I’m not selling anything here.

You seem intelligent

Thanks, I guess

and you hooked me up with a couple burned DVD boots once that was really quite a nice thing to do

I did? yeah that was nice.

yet when politics come up, you become a bully and you act like you’re backed into a corner or something.

How? because I can defend my position better than you? That’s not a bully.

Also you’ve told people to fuck off, and called people names in this thread and you want me to point it out to you? Really?

What names did I call people?

“Fuck Off” Context son, Context! I didn’t tell Amlux to fuck off because he made a point over me He was just calling me names and offering nothing to the thread, as he usually does I was tired of it. As I said before, anyone wants to discuss the subject I’m up to it, when you just come on to heckle me personally, then yeah, Fuck off!

As far as the tea party thing goes, your reading comprehension does not suit a teacher in this case.

You’re telling me this when you couldn’t even get the context of “Fuck off” right?

I’m still not sure why you’ve tried to explain their ideology to me twice.

I haven’t tried to explain their ideology to you. That wasn’t even the topic. Just that gun guy falls along their platform, that’s no explanation.

I relayed what I had read (ie that his friend said he was liberal), and I said that I wasn’t saying that he was not a teabagger only stating what I had read from a source, not political hearsay or assumptions. Kind of a “take it for what it’s worth” type of thing.

I didn’t attack I simply stated there’s no way he could be liberal with this kind of act. How is that an attack?
Here’s the exchange…

Killface wrote:

I’m reading that this guy was really liberal. His hs and college friend is saying that he was a pot head and far left politically. Where is all of the Palin connection reports coming from? I don’t watch news on tv.

grmpysmrf wrote:

liberals don’t shoot dems (or anybody for that matter) most of the crap he’s noted for writing/saying is the current tea party speak.
Late,
grmpysmrf

Where is the attack? Where is me explaining the tea party to you?

Somehow you go on attack mode because I stated that I read something that was contrary to the opinion you had already formed and dug your feet in on.

Bullshit, I posted the exchange above. Where is the attack? I simply stated the facts. There was no snide, no snark, no eye-rolling, No calling you a dumb ass. No heal digging. Just a simple statement.

He very well could be a teabagger and you will be right. I NEVER SAID OTHERWISE. Catch it this time?

NEVER SAID THAT YOU DID! Merely responded to the statement you made! Get it yet?
Late,
grmpysmrf

Despite what he might think, I don’t hate Grmpysmrf. I’ve had some really cool ongoing discussions with the guy and it’s obvious he’s intelligent and knows his shit when it comes to politics - I will give him that much.

Well, thanks dude. I like you to. I don’t, as a matter of fact, hate anybody here. Not even prologue, I’m still Sad to see that Prologue has left, really, cause there are other threads here.

I understand Politics is a touchy subject and really do like talking writing about it, I’m sorry if I come off pompous about it but it’s true I lose patience when I hear the same old information being thrown around here that’s on tv. When it’s not accurate or framed correctly, and when I question people on it I’m the asshole… I seriously don’t like that.

I really don’t hate you either amlux Or olsen or anybody… But I do get testy when people just ignore the points I make or they don’t bother to ask me why or they get angry when I ask them why…

I want to like the guy. And I know for a fact that the other supposed ‘Grmpy Haters’ here - namely Olsen (not too sure about voidhead, don’t know where he stands on this issue but it’s clear that the two don’t exactly see eye to eye) actually want to like the guy too.

I don’t hate void I think the animosity comes more from Voids side than mine. although admittedly I do get irritated when he gets upset when I ask him about his “art” and so yeah i am guilty of poking fun at him there.

But when it comes to discussing matters of a political or social nature, that’s when things turn sour. I don’t mind not seeing eye to eye on an issue, even with close friends we often don’t agree on politics.

I’m fine with not seeing eye to eye as well. I just would like to know why we don’t see eye to eye… I want to know why you believe the stuff you do and yes I want to point it out when it’s not accurate (and I would love for you to tell me when I’m not accurate- killface sent me a nice page about how Obama has fucked over his base… no argument from me good page!) that’s no slam against you or anybody. I just would like to let you know that 2+2 does not = 5. but it seems when I do that I’m the asshole no matter how matter of fact I write it.

But what I cannot stand is being bashed senseless everytime I try to offer an opinion on something and cannot support that opinion with a veritable library of facts.

well, you got to admit facts help strengthen your case. How come having facts to back one up makes them a bully?

you’re certainly entitled to your opinion but why would you want it if you can’t point to anything that supports it?

Just because I haven’t written a thesis on what view I am trying to express, does not mean that I should have to endure his bullying and sociopathic rants in my direction.

You don’t need a thesis just perhaps a solid reason why… shit, maybe “Cause I wanna believe that” would work as a reason. Just because I question you does not mean I’m bullying you.

Me: This is what I think. This is my view on the subject that’s being discussed in this thread.

Grmpy: WRONG! WRONG WRONG! You are wrong on that opinion and where are your FACTS to support what you are saying?

Well what’s wrong with wanting to know where you got your information?

Why are you bothering to enter this debate with me? You cannot win! I have all the facts and all the knowledge and I will win. I will win! There is no other side to this debate than the side I am offering. I am clearly in command here. You are clearly way out of your depth, little man.

This is a bit of Hyperbole on your part. There is no winning or losing as I’ve said before.

Me: Look, I have seen what I have seen on the television and read what what I have read in the newspapers and from that I have formed an opinion.

you hardly do this. you pretty much come at me with “asshole!”

Now that opinion may differ from your opinion but I still reserve that right to express it here freely without every single FUCKING SYLLABLE THAT I TYPE being dissected by you and made to feel like I’ve just gone 10 rounds in Fight Club. What the fuck is wrong with you when you…

So, I have no right to question you on your reasons for your opinion? So as I’ve said before “Amlux said it it must be so!” is that where you’re going with this? Makes it not much of a “discussion” board

Grmpy: WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! You are wrong and you are a whiny fucking bitch who I have no time for. Fuck off and don’t come back until your argument is sufficient enough to battle wits with the likes of me as I am all knowing on this subject.

Isn’t that one of the gripes that I keep the threads at the top? and if you check you will see that my “whiny bitch” comments are only reserved for when you or anybody else starts in on me and ignores the subject of the thread.

Me: Fuck off jerk. Think I’ll go talk music with the other forum members who aren’t all about hijacking threads with their aggressive repertoire and lop sided logic. Why would I bother with you. I want to enjoy coming here. I won’t stand for being intimidated by the likes of you.

Why do you need to be intimidated by me? Nobody needs to be intimidated. Also the question just begs to be asked, if you’re so done with me, why would you keep posting to me?

We all know that you have a considerable degree of knowledge on the subject of politics, Grmpy. Stop using that knowledge as a weapon.

I didn’t think I was. How would I even do that?

Just put your opinion across clearly and succinctly and be done with it.

I thought I do, but I get yelled at for it for being a bully.

As kill face said, who wants to go ten rounds with someone whose mind is firmly made up and end up bloodied and bruised.

My mind isn’t firmly made up. It may seem that way when the only thing that comes as a counter point is something that isn’t very strong in it’s response but that hardly means I’m cemented in my opinion.
I think perhaps all of your minds are made up though. I’m not trying to convert anyone I just wanna know the hows and whys of why some of you think the way you do. Why some are so complacent about getting bad information and then fighting tooth and nail to cling to that info?
Late,
grmpysmrf

People would be cool engaging in debate with you if it wasn’t such a horrible experience.

Sorry to keep harping on about this, but that’s it. You’ve nailed it right here in that sentence.

I like having debates here, but going up against Grmpy I leave the thread feeling shattered. I’m almost afraid to ever post in that thread again. And it shouldn’t be like that. We’re not in competition with each other here. You don’t have to point out every perceived flaw you find in a person’s post. If you don’t agree then just don’t agree and be done with it.

He’s wrong, he’s wrong! Look everybody, I found something in a political discussion that is wrong! Now I’m shouting at the top of my voice so that everybody else will see just how wrong it is too.

Are you really so competitive in your own life that you can’t leave a political discussion without feeling that you’ve just wiped the floor with anyone who took an alternative view to your own?

Sorry, but at times you come across as a rather pathetic and lonely figure.

Damn, grmpy. You’re right. No one has the endurance to go round for round with you. I’ll now bow out like the rest of the other dissenters you’ve destroyed. I leave scratching my head completely puzzled that you can’t in any way see or recognize the fact that you come off extremely abrasive on politics. Like a person on steroids or something.

Show me where, don’t just say it and run off! I’ve asked for 3-4 posts now for you to show me. you don’t. Why? it’s not like you gotta surf the net it’s all right here on prongs. pull an example it should be easy, no?

Every time I post or read someone else’s posts in these sort of threads I think "I bet grmpy will be sorry bc he really didn’t mean to come off like that, it’s just hard to convey emotion or sarcasm,

It’s hard to convey emotion? you keep saying I’m over the top emotional. I don’t get it.

or he’s just really passionate about his beliefs that he gets a little carried away "

Ain’t denying that I’m certainly passionate the only time I turn into a prick though is when of the 5 start in with me instead sticking to the topic you think it’s a contest and you’re not winning so you get angry.
funny thing about contests though, when you are the only one competing, you are sure to win! or lose I guess depending on how you look at it

or that you will post something like “Yeah that’s why I believe I’m right and you’re wrong, but your opinion is yours and you have a right to it”. But no, every time you come back with the same hostile, psychotic demeanor.

Which is where? site me a post? give me a link? PLEASE?

If you can’t leave an argument about politics without thinking “I sure showed that motherfucker, he’ll think twice to ever disagree with me again”, then that’s a weird problem that you have and you should deal with it.

That’s not how I leave any argument about politics it’s mostly just sorrow for the other side especially when it’s all just vagaries and ad hominems.

People would be cool engaging in debate with you if it wasn’t such a horrible experience.

yeah 5 in roughly 75 that come in and out this place. and the majority of those 5 already had a problem with me to begin with.
Besides The way you interpret my responses to you I have no control over.

For example, I reprinted the the exchange that apparently set you off this time and there is no hostility in there from me. None. I couldn’t find it you have yet to point it out. What about my response was rude or bullyish?

I know you will say that is because you are destroying them,

I’ve never said that.

and that they have nothing at all to stand on

A lot of time that is the case whether I say it or not. I think that is the main crux here. I have an opinion or statement that you don’t agree with and since you can’t or won’t argue your side, I’m the ass. That’s hardly my doing.

know that you’re right and they don’t like it.

Yeah, I’m guilty of that but that’s a pretty weak taunt especially since I fully expect you to defend your side. I guess I forget or can’t really accept that some of you are so emotionally and mentally feeble that you think it’s a fight. That’s not an insult that’s just the way it is…

“That son of a bitch, Grmpy challenged my opinion, I don’t know what to say, I’ll just call him and asshole and say he’s a bully since I have nothing else”

You got to admit that’s pretty much the bitch from the regular 4. and for the most part, you. Although you are a little less loose with the profanity towards me. thanks.

Can we really all be making this shit up? Ganging up on you or something?

I’m sure it’s real to you but seriously go back through and find where I bully people… I think you are reading it with your own bias. again… i reprinted the exchange where this apparently started in this thread with you and I and I can’t find the bully, you sure were pissed though.

My opinion is correct. Actually all of them are. On every single issue. I am correct and anyone that sees differently is incorrect. Fact. That will never change. Fuck off.

I’ve never said any of that. although it may seem that way to you because I have a solid opinion. I know my opinions are solid. are they right? maybe, maybe not. they’re just opinions. Don’t call me an ass though because I’ve thought the situation out a little farther than you or read a little more on the subject than you. Why is that a competition to you?

again I can’t control how you will interpret my responses nor is it my job to do so. but as I have asked you, go back through to any “grmpy has bullied people” thread and see who has started insults first. Please!!! I beg you. if what you say is correct, it shouldn’t take that long.

Do those statements sound weird to you?

absolutely! completely foreign, like I never even said them.

That is how you come off. I swear to god, I’m not just making it up because I’m butthurt like you say.

Please provide a legitimate example of me doing this please PLEASE? How can I learn unless you show me?

That’s just how you interpret me? so I’m not allowed to have an opinion or if i do it needs to be a weak sound bite that ultimately means nothing?

This is the last time I will challenge any of your opinions because you win as far as I’m concerned.

I’ve written it a bazillion times:

I’m not looking for winning. I’m not. I promise! that’s what you four decided I was about.

I guess what it comes down to is I’m looking for clarification and you feel inadequate because you can’t provide any? just asking.

You’ve truly made me sorry I ever shared my opinion here

That’s a damn shame. You shouldn’t feel that way.

because it’s different than yours it was obviously incorrect.

If that’s what you feel you need to believe, then what ever, but it’s not the case with me.

I know I’m going to be amazed at the hostility in your response, just like so many times before,

My hostility only comes out when people come at me with it frst. yes I’m going grade school on you. “They started it!”

but that’s what I get for stating my opinion without an essay of online research to back it up.

so now thoroughness is to be mocked? excellent precedent

Even when my opinion or statement was never made to you in the first place.

Sorry, i thought it was an open forum. My bad!
Late,
grmpysmrf

I like having debates here, but going up against Grmpy I leave the thread feeling shattered.

Why is that my fault? Really why is that my fault?

I’m almost afraid to ever post in that thread again. And it shouldn’t be like that.

it certainly shouldn’t

We’re not in competition with each other here.

I’ve been saying that for 2 pages now.

You don’t have to point out every perceived flaw you find in a person’s post.

Oh man, I don’t. I let a lot of shit slide, an if you guys could read pre filter you’d really think I was an ass.

If you don’t agree then just don’t agree and be done with it.

But I want to know why. Why is that so unreasonable on a discussion board?

He’s wrong, he’s wrong! Look everybody, I found something in a political discussion that is wrong! Now I’m shouting at the top of my voice so that everybody else will see just how wrong it is too.

That’s not the intention, I gerenally don’t use caps so i don’t know where the yelling comes from. but I ask you too please provide me with something somewhere that I have done that, should be an easy search.

Are you really so competitive in your own life that you can’t leave a political discussion without feeling that you’ve just wiped the floor with anyone who took an alternative view to your own?

I don’t do that now. I never have.

Sorry, but at times you come across as a rather pathetic and lonely figure.

your line here brings up my personal life into question so, see if I was really gonna be an ass I would take a swipe at your recent personal life and I would feel justified in doing so based on your last line here, but I don’t and I just say, whose is being the bully now?
Late,
grmpysmrf

Grumpy’s got an idea that he holds true to himself and that’s that. He’s laid out his reasoning for it, which, although I disagree with, is what it is.

I remember back in the 80’s a bunch of the punks and liberals always had pics of Reagan or Bush with target sites on their foreheads or suggesting some violent overthrow. These were almost all defined by most of society as “liberals” that were expressing these ideas. But, as per Grumpy’s explanation, liberals cannot be violent and an act of violence makes them not-liberal. So it’s an impenetrable defense, because his call for an example of liberal violence is just going to be shown (using his reasoning) as “Right Wing”.

I don’t agree with it, but at least he explained it all to me when I engaged him on it. I could see where Grumpy’s style could be seen as abrasive and combative (and no, I don’t know or care to know all the personal histories here so please don’t give me a lesson or review).

I guess when I no longer find conversation with someone to be fruitful (to me) or enjoyable, I just don’t participate. I’m not getting graded or paid for wasting time on the internet, so why should I be miserable.

Anyway, I guess what I’m saying is, if you put the emotional stuff aside and just take the discussions purely with respect to the subject matter you can decide for yourselves whether you got the answers or information you were looking for and go from there.

I like some of Grumpy’s posts and some of his spouts against others can be amusing, but I don’t really care about politics in general so when there’s 5 page extrapolations (even if it was in response to one of my posts) I tend to just move on to something else.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that there is the option of ignoring or not responding to someone.

I think it’s fair to reason that Liberals are non-violent and don’t condone that kind of behavior. After all, a liberal who supports violence isn’t a liberal, he’s a Libertarian.

I understand how many conservatives might confuse the two since it requires abstract thinking.