Marilyn Manson 'Born Villain'

Discussion
21

[reply][reply]But seriously, the first portion of the film was brilliant in my opinion.

G, catch the Holy Mountain, you’ll like it loads. That first scene of the MM video is just a cheap knock off of a scene in Holy Mountain. But beware, there is a scene in the film where you will (I guarantee) wince uncontrollably and cover your crotch.[/reply]

I’ve never (that I know of) scene a Jodorowsky film. I’m generally cynical and bitter about most films and have a pretty low threshold for artfag stuff. I do love Westerns and I like inexplicable weird stuff, but there doesn’t seem to be much pattern as to what or why.

This is all just a rambling intro to my question . . . Do you think a jaded old bastard like me should watch “Holy Mountain” or “Topo” for my first taste?

I remember watching the trailer for “Topo” a few months back and it just seemed so bizzarre and pretentious that I felt I had to see it. And tonight seeing the ad for “Holy Mountain” . . . . HAHAHAHA!!!

Where do I start, Dude?[/reply]

If you like westerns and inexplicable weird stuff then you should like El Topo. Overall I think El Topo had a better plot. It is more accessible than Holy Mountain but in saying that it still is quite esoteric in parts. But if you like Peckinpah style violence then the end won’t disappoint. I would not expect to be enraptured the whole way through and if you take it on a scene by scene basis there may be dry bits but giving yourself 2 hours or whatever it is and an open and patient reception you should get something good from it. The same could apply to Holy Mountain but it is somewhat more lofty. Plenty of nudity anyway. I started with El Topo first and so I’d recommend that same approach. But in saying that if you like one you’re hardly going to hate the other.

On an aside don’t watch El Topo in an arthouse cinema with nerds present. I did that the first time I watched it and I developed murderous urges; these nerd dickheads behind me were laughing nerdily the whole way through (even at bits that obviously weren’t funny) and saying lines before they were even said on screen. And I’m quite certain they were not high. But depsite this terrible nerd disaster in the theatre I still enjoyed the film.

22

There is nothing worse than the jerk that says the lines of the movie as it’s playing.

I don’t mind the guy that shouts out an occasional wise crack (it better be good). Sometimes I AM that guy. But seriously, do you think that having seen some stupid film 400 times and memorizing it and then torturing the rest of the theatre by making sure everyone around you KNOWS that you memorized it actually gives you some sort of street cred?

It’s probably good we didn’t see that film together, Mick. It may well have been a nerd bloodbath at our hands.

Thanks for the movie suggestions. I’ll try to get my hands on either of these I can find.

23

‘Holy Mountain’ is an absolutely brilliant film I recommend it to anyone. It’s not just a bunch of bizarre LSD bullshit when you look deeper.

it is so not.

what the fuck does the baby hippo mean?

i donno, this movie has always been a sort of barometer for me to see how ‘different’ and ‘individual’ people try to make themselves out to be. im a big fan of a lot of displacement cinema and such, but this movie has always made me wince and just shake my head. its a lot like manson in that way… it is just trying so damn hard t be flippant… its like watching a 12 year old act too smart for his parents, you know?

just watch koyaanisqatsi and eat an apple, sometime the really beautiful art is the stuff that doesnt try to smash you in the face with its pretentious boner…

that said… more power to manson, i really do think he serves a HUGELY important role in popular american mallgoth culture. without him bands like our dear Ministry and the likes might not have gotten such latter-day exposure. he is kinda like… Korn, or Static-X, or any of the other bands that bring people one step closer to other acts.

24

I think I love you.

25

Looks like he’s going door to door trying to shock people again.
And he forgot to write a hook.

26

Jodorowsky is great… that video is not.

To be honest it looks like film students doing a Jodorowsky rip off in the basement of their school.

But I wasn’t expecting anything special from LeBeef.

The song is bland; the build up and verses are ok but it needs a much better chorus (instead of just squealing like a pig). The spoken word bits are terrible. It sounds like a drum machine to me, at least outside the chorus.

If Manson put in a bit more effort he might get Jodorowsky to do a video for him.

Void, do you like El Topo too? I prefer El Topo to the Holy Mountain. I think the latter has some magnificent displays but the El Topo has a stronger story and feels like a western. When westerns are done right, there’s no beating them.

A Manson, Jodorowsky collaboration was planned but fell through apparently or is on hold. Here are some details on that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Shot

And a good interview which touches on the demise of the project:

http://www.viceland.com/blogs/en/2009/10/01/naked-bloody-corpses-charros-shrooms-and-those-who-made-them-monsters/

And here is an interview Jodorowsky and Manson did together in 2007 to promote ‘Eat Me, Drink Me’:

http://www.endandend.com/pre.php?id=11

As for ‘Born Villain’, I think you are being overly negative, which comes as no surprise on this forum especially where Marilyn Manson is concerned.

The film hardly looks like it is was done by art students in a basement. Come on now. The hyperbole people use to criticize things these days is quite nauseating in its own right.

Yes I think it borrows too much from Jodorowsky, as I said, and is a bit tasteless in trying so hard to be weird and have a jumbled esoteric message which is obviously just gibberish. But it’s really well done and, well…it looks fucking sweet! And I agree that Manson is no thespian lol…

I have not seen ‘El Topo’ but I will be watching it soon.

27

The song is bland; the build up and verses are ok but it needs a much better chorus (instead of just squealing like a pig). The spoken word bits are terrible. It sounds like a drum machine to me, at least outside the chorus.

Yeah that’s what I was saying it’s a decent groove (especially if it had more going on like, um, a bassline and some real drums.

But the vocal delivery is lame, the lyrics are trying too hard to be very witty, and the chorus sounds like crap and as someone said, no hook, so I’m not holding out for a great album from them this time around…

Fucking A they need a producer so badly!!

If they sent me in there I fucking guarantee I could resurrect his career. I know exactly what his fans and the world want from him.

But they’d try to rip me off or something as they have in the past with other fans who worked for them, lol.

28

Fucking A they need a producer so badly!!

Yep.
Rick Rubin would’ve sent erased the tapes and told him to come back when he had something worth listening to.

Maybe in 10 years when Manson’s gone straight-edge like Trent and Al he’ll get his mojo back.

29

If they sent me in there I fucking guarantee I could resurrect his career. I know exactly what his fans and the world want from him.

Yeah, I feel ya, Man. And if coach would have put me in in 1986 . . . . Man, we’d have taken taken state!

30

is a bit tasteless in trying so hard to be weird

Oh the irony!!!

Late,
grmpysmrf

31

I guess I’m the only person on here who actually likes this song. I think it sounds better than anything on The High End Of Low. Sure it’s missing a bassline but fuck it. The first spoken word in the video was pretty bad acting but this video is better than any other music video I’ve seen within the past few years. The only other artist’s recent vids that I like is Tyler The Creator. BRING ON THE HATE!!! Let me guess, you guys think that fucking IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES GUILLOTINE is better than this, right?

32

Verse guitar/drums sound like the intro to Cake and Sodomy.

33

Verse guitar/drums sound like the intro to Cake and Sodomy.

They were definitely reaching for the “early sound” of the band from ‘Portrait of an American Family’ or even earlier with the verses, at least the music. And the chorus is most similar to something from ‘Golden Age of Grotesque’.

I really hope this is just a demo though because it’s not fleshed out at all. They need to take the time to jam on their stuff as a band instead of doing a bunch of coke in the studio, programming a beat and Twiggy plays the most simplistic of riffs and they all jump around joyously.

The ‘High End of Low’ album was like that, and I fear the same for this one.

Lyrics are trying way too hard to seem intelligent. “The rape of Persephone was choreographed by all the wrong Greeks”? Well, I guess it’s better than the whining about being dumped by ex-girlfriends…maybe? Chorus lyrics are crap just a Satan squeal can’t even understand what he’s saying.

34

Is this a joke?

Are we actually debating this shit again? What’s to debate? Did no one get it the first time around? How about the 25th time around? Marilyn Manson and his baby goth teen shock tactics have no place here. This place is for the grown ups, kids. He’s about as controversial as a Lindsay Lohan paparazzi encounter and about as artistically creative as Pink. We may as well start a Blink 182 thread - it’d be just as pointless.

I wonder what half these morons who as sucked in by how “badass” and “scary” Manson supposedly is, would think if you showed them a Vienna Aktionists film clip or played to them a Hermann Nitsch piece.

“Oh you guys are just weird and that shit’s just fucked. Where’s the make up and the fancy dress and the glossy videos? This stuff you’re playing is just for sickos and mental patients. It’s just sick and evil. At least Manson’s just pretending. He’s an artist y’know”.

Marilyn Manson is ‘arty farty’ and experimental for people who listen to Lady Gaga.

Please put an end to these ridiculous cunt hole infested threads. The kind of people who listen to Manson are the kind of people that voidhead posted pics of in his Baba Yaga whatever thread.

Uh oh - cat’s now out of the bag.

35

I think it sounds better than anything on The High End Of Low.

That’s not really saying much when the only decent song on that album is the acoustic version of “running to the edge of the world,” on the bonus disc.

Late,
grmpysmrf

36

[reply]I think it sounds better than anything on The High End Of Low.

That’s not really saying much when the only decent song on that album is the acoustic version of “running to the edge of the world,” on the bonus disc.

Late,
grmpysmrf[/reply]

Now there were a couple of songs I liked on there and maybe that song would sound better acoustic bc the regular version of that song is horrible. I’d call it Manson’s attempt at doing an 80’s power ballad.

I don’t really give a fuck what the rest of you think. I have high hopes for this album. Maybe I’ll be eating my words again and will think that this album will be the most disappointing album of the decade. But based off of this track this could be his DSOTS. I don’t mean that it’s going to be a masterpiece, I’m saying it could be the most out there shit he’s ever done. For Manson standards this is a bit out there and I’m talking about the whole aura of the song as a whole and I think the lyrics are fine. Sure it’s not as clever or as pissed off as Antichrist or Portrait but give the guy a break. He’s in his mid 40’s and isn’t as pissed off anymore. Yes I’m defending Manson a bit. You mad bro?

37

Sure it’s not as clever or as pissed off as Antichrist or Portrait but give the guy a break. He’s in his mid 40’s and isn’t as pissed off anymore. Yes I’m defending Manson a bit. You mad bro?

No. I’m laughing. Really loudly.

38

Is this a joke?

blah blah blah I’m a self-important cunt

Ok. We know. So sorry. Please don’t beat me again, daddy!

Can you direct me to the appropriate thread so that I can experience musical evolution?

I have burned my Marilyn Manson, Ke$ha and Britney Spears records. My mind is now a tabula rasa for you to fill with your wondrous and superior tastes of music!

39

Yeah, I’m not the self important one posting pics of himself dressed like Ziggy Stardust and hamming it up with drunken, ugly lesbians at a Halloween dance party for emo retards, mate.

Keep the Marilyn Manson love coming though. It’s pure gold. We’ve all had a chuckle over at my house this afternoon. You’re keeping us all in stitches mate. I’m printing that shit out and pasting it somewhere.

40

If they sent me in there I fucking guarantee I could resurrect his career. I know exactly what his fans and the world want from him.

“…guarantee…”

…? …? … … …? … …? … … …? … … … ?

are you fuckin’ serious???

… … … …? …? …? … … … …?? … … …?

I don’t know what to say…

…? … … …? … … … … …? … … ?.. …?

words have failed me.

… … … … ?.. … …? … … …? … … …?

I’ll give it a shot…

how about…

why don’t you get your own plane off the ground before you try to captain the plane of the dude you’ve been stealing from (and poorly I might add) ever since the start of your “career.”

Oh, you know how to jump start his career 'cause you’ve been producing music for years now and know just what to demand out of your artists.

I could see your production direction now…

“hey, remember when you put in a different colored contact lens and and wore makeup and pretended to be criminally insane and sang about how messed up society is. That was cool. Remember that?? Yeah, do that again!!”

you don’t know shit. You’ve copied every look from Manson from the manscara eyes from “Portrait…” to the “Dead Egyptian” chick from the “Down in the Park video”

Since when does the follower tell the leader which path to take? You have your roles confused with Manson. He says and you do, not the other way around.

I’ve said it before, I’m sure I’ll have to say it multiple more times, you really are an ass.

for as bland as Manson has become, he’s still light years in front of you. You’d have to turn around and look behind you just to see him, because he’s about to lap your ass, again.

and you think you’re going to waltz in and tell him whats what?? god damn, talk about pretentious. you really are an asshole aren’t you? before, I thought it was just you trying to pretend (badly) at a persona, but that’s really you isn’t it? a badly pretended persona is actually you, isn’t it?

in-fuckin-credible

“I have never taken myself as seriously as you all seem to think” - voidhead

ass!!

btw +1 to you for making me rage
Late,
grmpysmrf