Here We Go Again.....Another School Shooting

Discussion
21

Criminals will still kill with or without guns.

Can we just agree at least that guns make it a hell of a lot easier to kill people?

Also this flare up of mass shootings probably has a a bit to do with our culture.

I agree but not for the reasons you put forth…

Fucking violence everywhere from all sides, news, video games, movies couple all that with environmental factors of the perpitrator and this is what happens.

In my opinion the violence in the media, video games, movies and such are not contributing, if anything they are lessoning the damage because people are at home on the couch watching or playing these things and NOT out actually doing them. They have an outlet, without that outlet how much more violent would it be? people would be left to their own creative violence and that would be really ugly.

I think we are seeing an angle of the theory of anomie at work here. the more people are given less and less or feel like they’re being given less and less the greater the possibility of this kind of reaction/crime. This kid was apparently pissed at his mom for some reason so he threw a tantrum. and what an epic tantrum it was [:(]
Late,
grmpysmrf

22

Nothing will be done, Obama is all hot air and no substance.

you think a republican would talk gun restriction? republicans relaxed gun restrictions in early 2k… Republicans are in the pocket of the NRA.

to answer your other post I do not own a gun. nor will I. Guns do too much damage and give people a false sense of security.

For the average citizen guns do no good. responsible citizens keep they’re guns locked in a safe and not easily accessible and therefore they’re useless, or if you have your gun on you and someone comes up behind you, your gun is still useless, or perhaps someone breaks into your house and kills you while you sleep and your gun that was useless to you is now in the hands of a criminal. 9 times out of 10 guns are an offensive weapon not a defensive weapon.

am I actively campaigning for all guns to go away… no, but if they did I wouldn’t miss them. I’m liberal in the truest sense of the word… you want a gun? don’t let me stand in your way. but I won’t own one. But don’t lie to yourself or anyone else saying it’s for “protection.” It’s a toy. A dangerous toy, just like a dirt bike, a dangerous toy.
Late,
grmpysmrf

23

In my opinion the violence in the media, video games, movies and such are not contributing, if anything they are lessoning the damage because people are at home on the couch watching or playing these things and NOT out actually doing them. They have an outlet, without that outlet how much more violent would it be? people would be left to their own creative violence and that would be really ugly.

Late,
grmpysmrf

I disagree. Wasnt the Colorado theater shooter a huge batman nut? I think they found batman posters and masks at his house and he stormed in on the theater fully armored like a wannabe action hero.

But yea im not saying this is the main reason why, but certainly fuels it in some cases.

24

Some people may be surprised to hear this, but I also do NOT own a gun and never have (I have gone shooting many times, though, at ranges and with others who own their own firearms).

I honestly don’t want something in my house that I could way too easily accidentally kill myself or my beloved wife with. I know the potential I have for total chaos or violence if I’ve been drinking and there is just one factor that sends me off on a certain angle.

I generally am a very responsible person and even drink accordingly. But I do like drinking. And every once in a while, I might have one or more too many. Sometimes this excess will have me making decisions that are absolutely horrible and sometimes unimaginable. If a gun was in the house . . . well, I’ll just say I’m glad there isn’t.

If I was a tea-totaller, I really do think I could be an honest, responsible gun owner. But I’m married and my wife hates guns, so it wouldn’t happen anyway.

When my wife first started dating me, by the way, I was sleeping every night with a giant knife tucked under the edge of the mattress where I could easily reach down and grab it for action if needed. I honestly couldn’t even tell you where all my knives are nowadays. I used to always have a plan mapped out for when and if an uninvited intruder manifested. But now . . . nothing. I just don’t worry about it. Some of that, though, is because I now live in a suburban paradise . . . . our condo project has it’s own security force, we are one block away from a police station and two blocks from a fire station and the cops and security patrol our area REGULARLY. I could probably have cops here way faster than I could get a gun out of a safe, load it with bullets, and be ready to hollow out someone’s head.

Yes, I’m drinking tonight. No, I don’t remember the point I was intending to make.

25

[reply]
In my opinion the violence in the media, video games, movies and such are not contributing, if anything they are lessoning the damage because people are at home on the couch watching or playing these things and NOT out actually doing them. They have an outlet, without that outlet how much more violent would it be? people would be left to their own creative violence and that would be really ugly.

Late,
grmpysmrf

I disagree. Wasnt the Colorado theater shooter a huge batman nut? I think they found batman posters and masks at his house and he stormed in on the theater fully armored like a wannabe action hero.

But yea im not saying this is the main reason why, but certainly fuels it in some cases.[/reply]
I think we’ll agree to disagree on this, mainly because if it were the media and video games and what not we would see this waaaaaaaay more often and on a bigger magnitude.

as far as the aurora shooter. I don’t know the details. maybe he was playing the part of the joker because it was a batman movie… maybe he would have been dressed as a storm trooper if it was star wars either way the dude felt like an outsider (bad guy) in society.

media and video games may play an extremely minute role in these scenarios but I think it would be an insignificant correlation and would maybe show up in small minuscule portions here and there based on individuals.

but if it were really the media we would all be susceptible to it and we’re not all running out and killing people and we are all exposed to this culture of violence. that fact that we’re all shocked by it is really …quite… shocking and proof enough for me that it’s not the video games or violent images. we apparently are still far from desensitized since we are so appalled when this a happens.

I have absolutely no facts to back any of this up it’s just me forcing my opinion on everyone. so everybody agree with me or else next time I will post 2 angry faces [pirate]
Late,
grmpysmrf

26

I blame Marilyn Manson.

27

I blame Marilyn Manson.

I can’t really joke about this anymore cause I have a 2 year old and my wife was literally in tears yesterday over the fact that this dude killed little kids. So if I try to make light of it here chances are I’ll fuck up and and make some joke outside of the board and then be in trouble.
We are only watching DVR shows this weekend and movies because she doesn’t want to see all of the coverage on network tv.

It really sucks. He killed his mom at home… No real extra problem, Mommy is punished. What reason did he have to go to her work and kill those little kids?

BTW Mommy had like 5 guns registered to her, lot of good those did keeping her safe especially since it was her guns that he used.

Late,
grmpysmrf

28

It’s weird how effectively I can block out information either actively or inactively now that I have cable television. Back when I only had the standard-issue free network service I couldn’t escape major news if I tried. It would be literally on every channel. But now as my wife pretty much just watches Bravo or Food Network or DVR’d Law and Order episodes we can easily go for days without getting any such reports or updates.

Personally, I get obsessed with tragedy and want to know everything. During 9-11 I would watch coverage hours on end. And the same with Tsunamis and such. It’s not a death-junkie or sadistic thing. I guess I just have this insatiable need to try and make as much sense of something as possible. I also have this weird need to share the pain when these things happen. I don’t know if I’ve got a self-loathing or a weird guilt-driven survivor complex but I always feel that it’s not fair that some of us have just so comfortably and conveniently avoided tragedy and pain and that we should suffer somehow along with them. Yeah, I’m kind of a weird guy, haha!

29

Personally, I get obsessed with tragedy and want to know everything. During 9-11 I would watch coverage hours on end. And the same with Tsunamis and such. It’s not a death-junkie or sadistic thing. I guess I just have this insatiable need to try and make as much sense of something as possible. I also have this weird need to share the pain when these things happen. I don’t know if I’ve got a self-loathing or a weird guilt-driven survivor complex but I always feel that it’s not fair that some of us have just so comfortably and conveniently avoided tragedy and pain and that we should suffer somehow along with them. Yeah, I’m kind of a weird guy, haha!

I identify with all of this. Not all tragedies but the ones that I “get into,” that is all totally me. I channel surfed so many freaking news stations during 9/11.
Late,
grmpysmrf

30

Seeing people post on various sites “If the teachers had been armed, those kids would be alive” just drives me nuts. First, they’re predicting an outcome: the shooter kills no one with his first shots, and the teachers take him out right away… and second, they’re working under the assumption that all teachers are not a) anti-gun, or b) susceptible to mental illness and capable of snapping and doing the very same thing.

Imagine the debate if all teachers were already armed, and one of them snapped because of a divorce, or money problems…anything, and they could just pull the gun from their desk and wipe out their own class in minutes. Who’s to say that couldn’t happen…Who do you arm at that point?

Let’s just hand everyone a musket and pretend the 2nd amendment isn’t extremely outdated.

1002

31

What the fuck?!?! Just heard the news. This shit just goes on and on and on over there in the land of the daft and arrogant.
Nothing will be done, Obama is all hot air and no substance.
Oh well, til next time I guess…

I don’t come to prongs for political discourse, so I will make this as brief as possible (it’s hard but I will try) - “draft and arrogant” as you may think, the 2nd Amendment is part of what makes this nation truly great, the Bill Of Rights. I don’t think any amendment is any better than the other, but in reference to me dishing my opinions on this here e-board I guess the 1st Amendment is better at the moment [:P]

These shootings occur roughly every 5-6 years or so. It’s just coincidence that there’s been three major ones in the past 5 however. These events have been going on since the era of Reagan.
These things progressed forward…I don’t really have to go into each event, but it…just happens. See here for optimum results:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Spree_shootings_in_the_United_States

You realize gun control always gets brought up when these things happen, right?
You do know that nothing ever occurs re: gun control regardless who the commander-in-chief is, right?
You…DO know that the NRA is the NRA is the most dedicated, crazed lobby in this nation, even more hardcore than the tobacco industry?

It’s not exactly something I could just post in this thread, it’s too long and would seem boring. All I can say is if you don’t know a lot about the NRA, read up. It’s a fascinating history. And, yes, btw I respect your opinions and ideas even though a lot of the “liberals” on this BBS would “come down” on you, but I do think you’re kind of coming out on a topic that’s been done to death in this country and it’s a pretty tired view.

32

Seeing people post on various sites “If the teachers had been armed, those kids would be alive” just drives me nuts. First, they’re predicting an outcome: the shooter kills no one with his first shots, and the teachers take him out right away… and second, they’re working under the assumption that all teachers are not a) anti-gun, or b) susceptible to mental illness and capable of snapping and doing the very same thing.

Imagine the debate if all teachers were already armed, and one of them snapped because of a divorce, or money problems…anything, and they could just pull the gun from their desk and wipe out their own class in minutes. Who’s to say that couldn’t happen…Who do you arm at that point?

Let’s just hand everyone a musket and pretend the 2nd amendment isn’t extremely outdated.

1002

wonderfully written. I’m not carrying a gun in the classroom. “Learn or else!”

Many teachers are alcoholics. so, yeah, lets arm alcoholics.

I don’t come to prongs for political discourse,

WTF?! [shocked] y not??? especially with how right I am all the time [wink] [cool]

“daft and arrogant” as you may think, the 2nd Amendment is part of what makes this nation truly great, the Bill Of Rights.

The bill of Rights is way more than the 2nd amendment. and there have been amendments have been updated for the times. prohibition springs directly to mind

I don’t think any amendment is any better than the other, but in reference to me dishing my opinions on this here e-board I guess the 1st Amendment is better at the moment [:P]

Some amendments are clearly better than others. the self incrimination portion of the 5th amendment i always thought was stupid

These shootings occur roughly every 5-6 years or so. It’s just coincidence that there’s been three major ones in the past 5 however. These events have been going on since the era of Reagan.

They happen more often than that. a dude went on a rampage just today and killed a cop and wounded a bunch of people in a hospital. The aurora shootings, the Ft. Hood shooting, the Virginia Tech shooting, some dude killed two bullies and himself last year. It’s more common than we think it’s just when the really big ones show up is when it becomes mega sensationalized

These things progressed forward…I don’t really have to go into each event, but it…just happens.

if these really progressed forward then why does it keep happening?

You realize gun control always gets brought up when these things happen, right?

it would stand to reason that that would be a good time, no? and gun control is always a hot button issue, so by your statement it would suggest that this happens all the time.

You do know that nothing ever occurs re: gun control regardless who the commander-in-chief is, right?

not completely true. Clinton signed the no automatic and semi automatic guns that expired and was not renewed by W in early 2k

You…DO know that the NRA is the NRA is the most dedicated, crazed lobby in this nation, even more hardcore than the tobacco industry?

scared people are irrational, and unfortunately there are a lot of them. who better to NOT have guns than the irrationally frightened?

btw I respect your opinions and ideas even though a lot of the “liberals” on this BBS would “come down” on you, but I do think you’re kind of coming out on a topic that’s been done to death in this country and it’s a pretty tired view.

I know yer talking to peligro but I’m not sure what you’re saying… what do you mean that he’s coming out on a topic that’s been done to death? I did like how you put liberals in quotes!
Late,
grmpysmrf

33

If you ask me, the real issue is not gun “control” but gun “access”. And the fact is if you don’t give a crap about whatever the laws are (most violent criminals, by default, don’t) then there’s still nothing preventing your ACCESS to a gun in this country. You can buy it from a guy in a van in back of Taco Bell.

By contrast, in Singapore you WILL receive typically a LIFE SENTENCE if you are caught with a gun. Likewise, if you are smuggling drugs or guns into the country you will be EXECUTED. Guess what country has practically ZERO problems with guns or drugs? Yeah, you guessed it. But access to either is pretty much impossible. And punishment is severe and consistent.

Our biggest problem in America isn’t that we are too conservative or too liberal it’s that we are too inconsistent. Criminals know that for most crimes they’re not going to have to deal with very much or very long consequences, so why would they care if they get cited with a misdemeanor for having an unlicensed handgun or something?

The “liberals” that are so concerned with guns are also the ones most likely to let the offending criminals off with a slap on the wrist (or explain the crimes away as justified by the circumstances). And the conservatives who are so far up their own asses with the rights of responsible citizens to own guns completely fail to include that perhaps owning a gun makes you responsible not just for your own actions but for any incident associated with the deadly weapon you own.

If you have guns laying around that someone can get to, you are by my definition at least, a very irresponsible person and your failure to take due care with something that can kill may lead to someone’s death. In such a scenario you are at least partly responsible and should be sanctioned accordingly.

34

And punishment is severe and consistent.

this is absolutely the most important point of the whole gun debate.

Son of a bitch!! If we keep this thread going for another couple days we, here at prongs, may get this whole gun mess sorted out for the country! that’s fuckin’ patriotic! AMERICA, fuck yeah!

We’ll wrap this thing up by Tuesday of this week and send it off to congress and be heros!
Late,
grmpysmrf

35

Amazingly sad circumstance. Unbelievable.

Gunnar, you make a lot of sense (and sense is usually something I find in short supply on the gun control department).

36

Amazingly sad circumstance. Unbelievable.

Gunnar, you make a lot of sense (and sense is usually something I find in short supply on the gun control department).

Thank you, Brother.

37

I still think this is a cultural thing. I mean look at the OKC bombing… even the colorado movie theater nut James Holmes. James Holmes set up an elaborate homemade bomb in his house to go off when the police arrived. What’s to say if he didn’t have any weapons he wouldn’t have just set a bomb off instead?

Outlawing guns would def help from these things occurring so often but in the long run you’re never going to stop these deranged people from killing.

38

I’m not sure if this is true but I would like to see what their income disparity looks like.

I still think this is a cultural thing.

I’ll endorse this to a point. I think it’s a little more complicated than that, but I think the culture here is extremely fucked up and contributes greatly this type of behavior. I honestly think the economics of our country is the driving reason behind this kind of shit.

I mean look at the OKC bombing… even the colorado movie theater nut James Holmes. James Holmes set up an elaborate homemade bomb in his house to go off when the police arrived. What’s to say if he didn’t have any weapons he wouldn’t have just set a bomb off instead?

How many bombings have there been versus mass shootings? bombings take planning and proper materials along with a certain amount of technical know how. bombing isn’t behavior that is taken out on a whim the way guns are.

Outlawing guns would def help from these things occurring so often but in the long run you’re never going to stop these deranged people from killing.

I don’t think anyone is so naive to think that we can wipe this out completely, but given your own example the last time we had a bombing was nearly 20 years ago.
Late,
grmpysmrf

39

Has the war on drugs worked? (I would say no) So if we ban guns in the USA, it’s highly likely that we would face the same issue. There is an abundant supply of weapons in the world. And if there is a demand for them, it is inevitable that they will be readily available for those who want to pay for them.

I’m not so sure these would be the same things. Drugs have to do with addiction and basically a need and affect the user on a daily basis whereas the need to have a gun is not an addiction (at least not in the same sense as drugs) and there would be no reason to venture into darkened vans in the alley everyday. Now there would certainly be a black market for guns but I hardly think it would be as prolific as the drug war.
Late,
grmpysmrf

40

These shootings occur roughly every 5-6 years or so. It’s just coincidence that there’s been three major ones in the past 5 however.

Try 16 in the last year.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/171774/fifteen-us-mass-shootings-happened-2012-84-dead#

Late,
grmpysmrf