there was an interesting thread a while ago at the always amusing “Metal Archives” forums, which asked whether or not users had ever gotten rid of records for “ideological reasons.”
I thought that might be an interesting topic to bring up here, although in less of a purely ‘metal’ context (I may end up writing an article / paper on this somewhere down the line, so would be worthwhile to get as many perspectives as possible.)
So - have you ever lost interest in a musician / band once you found out where they stood on socio-political issues? Did it lead to a mass sell-off or outright trashing of their records?
Alternately, did some musician’s personal stances get you into their music whereas you were previously on the fence about it?
It doesn’t affect me much at all.
I am often interested to know about what an artist thinks and his/her view on things, but I’m not going to toss out a record because someone is Buddhist or Satanist or Vegan or Catholic or Republican.
It always cracks me up on metal forums when dudes seem to get really butthurt and bothered that Dave Mustaine or someone may be Christian or Republican and they start ranting about what an a-hole he is and how intolerant and this and that. I’m like, "Uhhhh, you’re wearing a Burzum shirt. That dude like literally burned down buildings and killed people and now you’re crying because some guy reads the Bible or is against illegal immigration or something.
I used to be more interested in what an artist says. I really thought Al Jourgensen and Jello Biafra had something important to say and I will say that getting into that stuff definitely influenced my own beliefs and opinions on things.
But now I kind of want rockers to just shut their big dumb mouths and play the songs. It seems that with a lot of them, the more they talk, the less they say. Yes, Al. That means you. Just shut up.
It always cracks me up on metal forums when dudes seem to get really butthurt and bothered that Dave Mustaine or someone may be Christian or Republican and they start ranting about what an a-hole he is and how intolerant and this and that. I’m like, "Uhhhh, you’re wearing a Burzum shirt. That dude like literally burned down buildings and killed people and now you’re crying because some guy reads the Bible or is against illegal immigration or something.
I think people would rationalize that by claiming that Mustaine somehow “betrayed” them and radically altered his belief system over time, whereas they always “knew” Burzum / Varg Vikernes stood for a certain set of ideals. Even if certain ones (like his tendency to place an ‘evil Jew’ at the center of every problem from currency inflation to the common cold) did gradually come to take up more of his speaking time.
I agree Al should shut up until he can speak with more articulacy on the issues that piss him off, or simply let the his music do the talking - songs like “Breathe” weren’t effective because they hit you with a wall of stats on ecological devastation, but because the dread atmosphere of the music meshed perfectly with the subject matter.
When it comes to messages and lyrical content, I much prefer things to be more cryptic and symbolic so that people can kind of get their own meaning from it, even if that might be different from what the author was feeling at the time.
I’m going to find pondering “The only truth I know, is the look in your eyes” a lot more rewarding than “Get up, get out, and vote.”
Makes no difference at all to me. If it sounds good I will listen to it.
I agree up to a point. For me, if someone’s an undisputed master of his / her musical craft, I can find myself overlooking some deep ideological differences. Truly great music can have a way of getting away from the intentions of its creators, to the point where I just ‘hear’ pure creative energy instead of ideology.
I’ve listened to stacks of dub and ‘conscious’ reggae, for example, that I somehow manage to enjoy in spite of being agnostic and having no connection whatsoever to Rastafarian faith.
And I’ve listened to almost equal amounts of black and death metal from people who actually believe in a literal Satan or in pantheons of pagan deities.
Luckily, though, the music market today is saturated, and if something does offend my ear there’s probably going to be someone doing the same musical thing just as well minus the offense.
If it’s something overtly horrible like screwdriver or some other dumbass stormfront nazi type shit band I absolutely won’t purchase it. Fuck that shit. Same with Varg and burzum or whoever the fuck that white supremacy fuck is.
If I’ve purchased it and then find out later the artist has some fucked up ideals then I will purchase no more of their warez. For example I found Out H.R. Giger was into Nazism after I’d bought several of his books. I won’t buy anymore Giger work, But I’m not going to throw away the books I have. The damage is done he has my money (or had as the case may be), It’d be stupid to throw the books away.
People Like Dave Mustain, yeah his politics are fucked up now, but the dude really thinks he’s trying to do good. He’s not out trying to kill anyone. We just have a basic political difference of opinion. That being said, I won’t necessarily boycott his products, but I certainly won’t by them new. I’ll buy whatever album used, that way he gets no money from me off of the deal. That’s my rational, although, Dave has made it easy for me because everything that I’ve heard after “the system has failed” has been utter crap. Also, no matter how stunted Mustain’s political opinions are, that still doesn’t change the fact that Rust In Peace is a killer album.
I’ve not really kept up with Megadeth’s stuff in the last 15 years. But I can tell you one thing . . . . Supercollider is a big giant steaming pile of poo. Just unforgiveably horrible.
Most ALL of my favorite musicians have lifestyles and beliefs that differ greatly from mine, most I don’t condone, some I actively condemn.
Liking hardcore and hip hop in particular is super problematic, because many hardcore guys I’ve listened to and played with are self-righeous wacktivists and often way too heavy handed with politics, religion, or actual hands, and as far as hip hop goes, my favorite rapper at the mo is a Crip that deals drugs, pimps hoes, and regularly slurps on codeine over ice. I don’t like ANY of that, but the music is the realness and makes me feel feelings.
I saw the March Violets last year in San Diego. Opening for them was a band that has blown the fuck up in recent months, a self-titled “cholo goth” outfit called PRAYERS. “Cholo goth” basically amounts to Nitzer Ebb and Switchblade Symphony getting together with Schooly D handling vox, and it’s really cool to watch and listen to. Following these fuckers on Feisbuk, though, pisses me off, because it’s everything awful about the cholo and goth subcultures rolled into one. The music’s awesome and I’d gladly see them again, but motherfuck their personal lives. (The frontman actively reps his gang on YouTube and the gang actively reps his band, often by tagging the FUCK out of San Diego. This is all on video. He wonders why he always has court dates.)
Martin Atkins. Need I say more?
All the music I like is super problematic and if it doesn’t have the worst substance problems, it’s a legit front or some kind of wacky religious thing. The Devil does drugs.
I think the only band I’ve been weirded out by personal politics enough to have a radically different opinion on the music, weirdly enough, is Rush. I think Neil Peart might genuinely be insane.
I saw the March Violets last year in San Diego. Opening for them was a band that has blown the fuck up in recent months, a self-titled “cholo goth” outfit called PRAYERS. “Cholo goth” basically amounts to Nitzer Ebb and Switchblade Symphony getting together with Schooly D handling vox, and it’s really cool to watch and listen to. Following these fuckers on Feisbuk, though, pisses me off, because it’s everything awful about the cholo and goth subcultures rolled into one. The music’s awesome and I’d gladly see them again, but motherfuck their personal lives. (The frontman actively reps his gang on YouTube and the gang actively reps his band, often by tagging the FUCK out of San Diego. This is all on video. He wonders why he always has court dates.)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I just came across those clowns earlier this month and have been making fun of them since. Man, what a couple of megachodes.
Ideology and personal beliefs are the main reasons that I’m attracted to certain musicians, authors, artists, and people in general.
There are some artists I respect who I’m not in line with politically, somebody like Bryan Ferry comes immediately to mind (he’s a bit of a Tory), but those are the exception.
If I’ve purchased it and then find out later the artist has some fucked up ideals then I will purchase no more of their warez. For example I found Out H.R. Giger was into Nazism after I’d bought several of his books. I won’t buy anymore Giger work, But I’m not going to throw away the books I have. The damage is done he has my money (or had as the case may be), It’d be stupid to throw the books
This is honestly the first time I’ve heard this - where was this revealed?
Just seems kind of odd, because reliable old lefty / Green political candidate Biafra spoke well of him up to his death and devoted one of his Alternative Tentacles “batcasts” to his legacy.
And I view certain of Giger’s artworks as kind of a visualization of the extremes to which fascistic control / domination would go if it was allowed to…not necessarily an endorsement. Just my interpretation though.
I’ve not really kept up with Megadeth’s stuff in the last 15 years. But I can tell you one thing . . . . Supercollider is a big giant steaming pile of poo. Just unforgiveably horrible.
They’re still great live, though.
Endgame is a good album, until after the title track…
[reply]
If I’ve purchased it and then find out later the artist has some fucked up ideals then I will purchase no more of their warez. For example I found Out H.R. Giger was into Nazism after I’d bought several of his books. I won’t buy anymore Giger work, But I’m not going to throw away the books I have. The damage is done he has my money (or had as the case may be), It’d be stupid to throw the books
This is honestly the first time I’ve heard this - where was this revealed?
Just seems kind of odd, because reliable old lefty / Green political candidate Biafra spoke well of him up to his death and devoted one of his Alternative Tentacles “batcasts” to his legacy.
And I view certain of Giger’s artworks as kind of a visualization of the extremes to which fascistic control / domination would go if it was allowed to…not necessarily an endorsement. Just my interpretation though.[/reply]
I googled Giger and nazi and I got no relevant hits at al.
I’m curious where that stems from as well. I vaguely remember something sort of “suggestive” for lack of a better word with regards to Giger, but I thought it was more along the lines of him possibly having some elitist type of feelings and attitudes in kind of a Social Darwinist type vein. Kind of like how Boyd Rice gets lumped in as a Nazi sometimes because of silly imagery he’s played around with along with his obvious elitist ideology (as well as his massive self-important ego).
Kind of like how Boyd Rice gets lumped in as a Nazi sometimes because of silly imagery he’s played around with along with his obvious elitist ideology (as well as his massive self-important ego).
I think we already had a “what’s up with Boyd Rice” thread on here a while ago, so hopefully I’m not repeating myself, but generally I don’t have a problem with him. At worst, I find he’s hammering home the same thesis statement over and over again (i.e. “hey, you can be BOTH a groovy fun-loving guy AND a wolfish misanthrope!”)
But over time, I’ve found that the worst things attributed to Boyd have been distortions or outright fabrications by people with axes to grind over purely personal beefs. His ex-wife (Lisa Carver) being a major source of disinfo.
A lot of what she said has also been uncritically reprinted by the “Neoist” writer Stewart Home, who is a real piece of work. Home used to pal around with far-right “volkish” organization called the Iona Collective, namely ex-member Tony Wakeford who later went on to form the band Sol Invictus. Kinda amusing that some of the people making the loudest noises about Boyd’s ‘nazism’ had their own intimate ties to similar ideals, and may be on a desperate quest to keep their own skeletons from falling out of the closet.
I remember reading an article about it years ago. In a magazine (not the net) and the several days later i was talking to a colleague and they brought up that he gives to race hate organizations and i was floored and told him how i had just read that he was into nazism. Maybe it was bullshit. I hope so id love to by more of his works.
Its funny you bring up biafra because i thought the same thing about how could jello support that type of shit. Apparently it was something he got in to later in life…
I hope im wrong.
EDIT I just scoured the net trying all kinds different combinations I couldn’t find anything either. but I know I read it. I didn’t make it up. Maybe I got taken in by some onion type magazine or newspaper.