SO HOW ABOUT THAT SNOWDEN GUY HUH? IT’S CONSTANTLY IN THE NEWS
You should write a song about it.
He’s a little bitch.
I like him. Along with the wiki leaks guy, and bradley manning.
If our government did shit correctly they shouldn’t have to worry about actually being responisble to the people who elect them.
Late,
grmpysmrf
[reply]I like him. Along with the wiki leaks guy, and bradley manning.
If our government did shit correctly they shouldn’t have to worry about actually being responisble to the people who elect them.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Seriously?[/reply]
completely. don’t fuckin piss down our backs and tell us it’s raining and then get upset (and tell us we all should be upset too) at the guy who told us all that it’s not rain and that they’re actually pissing on us.
I don’t see how anyone except “those in charge” could be upset with these people for exposing the truth.
people get made fun of, minimalized, marginalized, dismissed, and labeled as cranks and crazies when they talk about our secret government programs. Now some people have shown with great evidence that our government is corrupt and does involve itself in some fucked up shit and everyone wants to kill the messengers.
It’s fuckin’ stupid
Late,
grmpysmrf
I think he’s done a good thing by blowing the whistle too. Why should you be loyal to a government that’s so shadowy with it’s own people, spies on citizens at home and on foreigners (with the UK govt), eavesdrops on private conversations in the European parliament, kidnaps and jails people who may never face trial or be seen again, etc? Not to mention the assassinations abroad, funding terrorist groups that will eventually turn against the US, and other fun pastimes. Maybe he started working for them with the best intentions and then found out more than he wanted to about how they operate with impunity and do what they want against their own people. Maybe that’s why he felt he couldn’t continue and that it should be made public knowledge the kind of horrific things the government does.
The thing i found most ridiculous was his father coming out and saying “Please come home to face life in jail, son, i’d rather you were locked up in the US than free in one of those terrible non-US countries where they don’t have the same freedoms we do”. Is the guy for real or what? What an absolutely brainwashed fucking moron. His son has taken a stand, has faced an impossible moral conundrum and done what he feels is right, some real A Man For All Seasons shit, and his dumbass father demands he come home this instant, and trust the government that he’ll be ok in jail? Hmmm, no thanks. Anyway, i don’t believe they’d let the dad visit him at Guantanamo.
[reply][reply][reply]I like him. Along with the wiki leaks guy, and bradley manning.
If our government did shit correctly they shouldn’t have to worry about actually being responisble to the people who elect them.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Seriously?[/reply]
completely. don’t fuckin piss down our backs and tell us it’s raining and then get upset (and tell us we all should be upset too) at the guy who told us all that it’s not rain and that they’re actually pissing on us.
I don’t see how anyone except “those in charge” could be upset with these people for exposing the truth.
people get made fun of, minimalized, marginalized, dismissed, and labeled as cranks and crazies when they talk about our secret government programs. Now some people have shown with great evidence that our government is corrupt and does involve itself in some fucked up shit and everyone wants to kill the messengers.
It’s fuckin’ stupid
Late,
grmpysmrf[/reply]
For one thing he was given top secret clearance and expected to abide by that. If he couldn’t keep his damn mouth shut he shouldn’t have signed up for the job. He’s a traitor and is causing huge problems. The fact that he needs to be pulled back to USA and sentenced and hanged is beyond the fact that USA is spying on its citizens. That’s an entirely different matter.[/reply]
He works for the people not an above the law entity known as “government”. I don’t give a fuck if he had double top secret probation clearence.
So you’re telling me that the guy who tells the citizens their government is breaking its own laws is far worse than the actual government that is actually breaking laws because of a security clearence… genius! I’ll start robbing banks and before I leave I’ll let everyone know that that my behavior is a secret, top secret in fact, of course they should know that by the disguise I wearbut just to be sure I’ll tell them anyway, that way if anyone calls the cops on me they’re the asshole for breaking the trust I instilled in them concerning my illegal actions.
As far as I’m concerned snowden can’t be found guilty because he should have whistleblower protection.
I know I’ve said this before but I think its more relevent now in this case. You need to get your prioities straight.
Late,
grmpysmrf
I think he’s done a good thing by blowing the whistle too. Why should you be loyal to a government that’s so shadowy with it’s own people, spies on citizens at home and on foreigners (with the UK govt), eavesdrops on private conversations in the European parliament, kidnaps and jails people who may never face trial or be seen again, etc? Not to mention the assassinations abroad, funding terrorist groups that will eventually turn against the US, and other fun pastimes. Maybe he started working for them with the best intentions and then found out more than he wanted to about how they operate with impunity and do what they want against their own people. Maybe that’s why he felt he couldn’t continue and that it should be made public knowledge the kind of horrific things the government does.
The thing i found most ridiculous was his father coming out and saying “Please come home to face life in jail, son, i’d rather you were locked up in the US than free in one of those terrible non-US countries where they don’t have the same freedoms we do”. Is the guy for real or what? What an absolutely brainwashed fucking moron. His son has taken a stand, has faced an impossible moral conundrum and done what he feels is right, some real A Man For All Seasons shit, and his dumbass father demands he come home this instant, and trust the government that he’ll be ok in jail? Hmmm, no thanks. Anyway, i don’t believe they’d let the dad visit him at Guantanamo.
My thoughts exactly jay. Well written. Btw I didn’t hear that the father had said that. I wonder if he was coerced into saying that. You’d figure that a guy who has the brass to stand up to a criminal government, one that happensto be the most powerful in the world, would have to get his moral fortitude from somewhere. I would guess parents. Funny how they would turn coat now.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Yeah, i’d seen the interview with his dad on the news, i’m sure he means well, and he wants to trust the government, as we should all be able to, but he did seem a little bit naive telling Snowden to come home and face that good old prison freedom.
Since i saw that, i’ve been reading a little bit about his father, it seems he’s changed his mind a bit. He was also, according to this article, an NSA officer himself at one point, and is feeling all kinds of pressure from various parties over the matter. Understandably he’s disillusioned with the government. I think the whole thing’s pretty sad for all the people involved, a tragedy for his family and his own life doesn’t look like it’ll be much fun from now on, looking over his shoulder all the time.
I think that the governments of all countries should be as transparent as possible (within reasonabe limits), not bugging their allies and gathering dirt on foreigners for their own govts, using tools and methods that are illegal on US soil. This listening tool that they use is not allowed to be used against the US’s own citizens at home. Who knows if it is or is not, but it IS being used against US citizens outside the country and it’s being used to gather evidence for the UK govt to be used against their citizens, by the US govt.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/snowden-father-clapper-obama/2013/07/02/id/513046
For one thing he was given top secret clearance and expected to abide by that. If he couldn’t keep his damn mouth shut he shouldn’t have signed up for the job. He’s a traitor and is causing huge problems. The fact that he needs to be pulled back to USA and sentenced and hanged is beyond the fact that USA is spying on its citizens. That’s an entirely different matter.
A traitor to who? What “huge problems” is he causing and who are these problems having an impact on? I don’t understand how anyone (except the people who are behind spying on citizens) would be upset with what he’s done. Just because something is “top secret” and it was part of his job to keep the information hidden doesn’t make it morally right.
If he was giving out military orders and things that could get people killed or compromise the military I’d be more inclined to dislike the guy. I’m not in love with him like much of the internet seems to be but I think he did the right thing in exposing that people are being spied on.
What’s been the most surprising thing to me is that people are actually surprised that they’re being watched. Wasn’t this common knowledge? I suppose the shock is from having these assumptions confirmed.
Just because something is “top secret” and it was part of his job to keep the information hidden doesn’t make it morally right.
This is pretty much it. the only correct thing to do was turn them in. if he kept his mouth shut then he’s an accessory, if he continues with his job like everything is normal then not only is he an accessory but a willing accomplice to crime.
Nixon was WRONG when he said about breaking laws; “if the president does it it’s not a crime.”
If he was giving out military orders and things that could get people killed or compromise the military I’d be more inclined to dislike the guy.
Yeah, it’s not like he outed an active CIA agent DICK FUCKIN’ CHENEY. That’s one son of a bitch who should be swinging from the gallows for treason on Valerie Plame alone. Then you factor in his war crimes on top of that.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Is it really a shock that Obama and the other baboons in Washington regularly wipe their ass with the Constitution?
Is it really a shock that Obama and the other baboons in Washington regularly wipe their ass with the Constitution?
[:(]
For one thing he was given top secret clearance and expected to abide by that. If he couldn’t keep his damn mouth shut he shouldn’t have signed up for the job.
What’s been the most surprising thing to me is that people are actually surprised that they’re being watched. Wasn’t this common knowledge? I suppose the shock is from having these assumptions confirmed.
These are really the two thoughts I have on the topic. I called him a little bitch because . . . . seriously, Bro? Did you think you were going to be helping the CIA make spreadsheets for the kids’ Little League fundraisers?
Of course we do shady stuff. We do it all the time. This is how we bust terrorist rings, international drug lords, and how we win wars (sometimes). It’s nothing new. We’ve been dirty bastards since dirt was invented.
I don’t really know a whole lot about the story but he just seems like a bit of a soft weenie. I’ll let the courts decide, though. I’m not going to call for his execution because I don’t know all the facts or what he was sworn to do and not do. But I’m certainly not going to herald him as a hero just because what he did has strong personal implications (heck, maybe he just wanted to be a martyr) and that he supposedly revealed some shocking stuff (Really? Was anyone else shocked besides him?).
Like I said, he just seems like a little bitch.
He looks like one too.
Did you think you were going to be helping the CIA make spreadsheets for the kids’ Little League fundraisers?
That’s it? “The CIA is a criminal organization he should’ve known what he was signing up for.”?
Top secret doesn’t automatically mean Illegal. It just means information that isn’t for the general public. It DOES NOT mean carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want without anyone knowing, the law be damned. Top secret means dick all if it’s used to cover up crime and ceases to be “top secret” when it is being used to cover up illegal activity, at least in my mind.
Of course we do shady stuff. We do it all the time.
People rob banks all the time. should we now start tolerating it since it happens regularly?
This is how we bust terrorist rings, international drug lords, and how we win wars (sometimes). It’s nothing new. We’ve been dirty bastards since dirt was invented.
what terrorist rings have we busted up, what wars have we won, based on this shady shit?
Ultimately, what you’re saying is the ends justifies the means and that really isn’t a code you want anyone living by, especially those that are more powerful than you.
I don’t really know a whole lot about the story but he just seems like a bit of a soft weenie.
I think standing up to your government is some hard core strong cock shit. especially this government.
I’ll let the courts decide, though.
Hmmm. I wonder how they will rule?
I’m not going to call for his execution because I don’t know all the facts or what he was sworn to do and not do.
working for the government, he first and foremost was sworn to uphold the constitution. Staying quiet on illegal shit branded “Top Secret” is not part of his job, and is part of no one’s job. working for the government you have a duty to the people whether you were directly elected or not.
It’s a pretty black & white issue for me.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Grumpy, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about it. You’re making stuff up.
Before this turns into one of those unbearable threads where Grumpy posts foot long posts responding to every detail of what anyone says (because he’s “thorough”), can you explain more about your stance on this? I am, perhaps, a bit naive on the subject, but I don’t see how his actions are really dangerous.
Grumpy, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about it. You’re making stuff up.
how very a specific a charge you have levelled at me. care to elaborate on what it is I’m “making up.” Really, what it is, is it is you that doesn’t know what they are talking about. It’s the sad truth because I like you on the board for the most part, but you seldom are ever on the correct side when it comes to social issues.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Before this turns into one of those unbearable threads where Grumpy posts foot long posts responding to every detail of what anyone says (because he’s “thorough”)
Unbearable? I’m not thorough?
Late,
grmpysmrf
Snowden didn’t work for the government, he worked for Booz and Allen.
Who is a government contractor… his employer works for the government, he works for the government. If you’ve every worked for a government contractor you know this to be true. I’ve worked for Dyncorp and Johnson Controls. His immediate employer may be a contractor be he works for the government because that’s who the contractor works for.
Manning on the other hand did work for the government - U.S. Army. His actions put his fellow soldiers at risk. Mr. Manning should be hung until dead.
Who Put his fellow soldiers at risk???
The illegal activity or the reporting of the illegal activity? Blame the victim/kill the messenger (literally) mentality really needs to be put to an end in this country
I just don’t know why anybody is surprised this level of spying is going on. I do find it comical that the European governments that are crying fowl are active participants in the very schemes are they decrying and certainly have spy active programs of their own. To act if as their is no blood on their hands is the height of hypocrisy. It should be no shock that if the government can access/gather/compile something, it will - constitution be damned.
The outrage would be just as large when/if the European nations are exposed for doing the same. I think you’re mixing spy programs and illegal activity. they are not the same. The outrage for me is the fact that it was suspected by cranks and crazies but now is confirmed. Yeah the Bush administration started it and they had the decency (? is that the right word) to scare the crap out of everyone to justify its use. So, in a sense they told us. I’m more pissed at Obama for just doing it behind our backs…
Although, to come full circle with you, nobody should really be that pissed. Doesn’t the patriot act give the government access to do just this?
Late,
grmpysmrf
All this talk of the government being evil bastards who could come for you at any moment has reminded me; Happy 4th of July to my American friends, hope you have a good one!