Armed Guards

Kinda hard to when there are so few of them and they are so reclusive, meaning they only stay on message when they are out no matter what’s asked of them.

“Few”?

But they seem to show up all over the country at EVERY major funeral. And there’s always a handful of them (seems like about 10-15 at times). Certainly they can’t be just constantly jetting from protest to protest . . . or do they? I really don’t know. It seems like they have enough people to cover a large number of ongoing events.

Or are they sub-contracting schmucks to hold signs for them since they can’t be everywhere at once? I’m not even being sarcastic. As a businessman I’m quite interested in not just the “core” of this group but the economics and logistics of it. Forget tax exemption, how are they supporting their activities at all? Unless there’s some major old money that they have inherited or something, I can’t see them making enough from their hillbilly constituents putting $20 a week in the offering tray.

Maybe I need to start up collections to fund my documentary project. I’m really surprised no one’s done this yet (or maybe they have).

They seem to be total media whores, so it shouldn’t really be all that hard to do . . .

What always strikes me as being odd is how some feel passionate about certain issues because they base their opinions on personal experiences and ignore the facts altogether.

If I were to base my opinion of gun control on my personal experiences I guess I’d say that we should ban all guns. Afterall…I live in the one of the most dangerous metro areas in America and travel through the Southside of Chicago to and from my job every working day and I’ve never had a gun pointed at me or had any of my living quarters broken into or had any loved ones fall victim to a gun-violent crime. I’ve never had to defend myself with a gun…so nobody else should either, right? Ah…but I’m not that naive. Lucky perhaps…but not naive.

All most of us who are pro-gun control are asking is that owning a gun should be regulated at least as much as cars are…titled and tagged and insured and inspected on a regular basis. That’s all.

Nobody’s coming to take your guns. We just want what’s fair.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Most_Hated_Family_in_America

Has anyone seen these documentaries?
I might need to order them.

Also, I notice by looking at the photos of their protests that they often give a bit of an illusion of being more than they are because each participant typically balances about 5 or 6 different signs.

Yeah they jet set all over the country. I have no idea how they’re funded.
Late,
grmpysmrf

They probably hope to get punched by pissed off attendees at funerals and then get settlement monies or something.

I personally know a person who shot and killed an intruder that broke into his house. The intruder’s last words were “I am going to kill you and your family.” Fortunately, the person who lived in the house slept with a rifle. There is more to this story to explain things but I can’t tell it.

I also personally knew Wendell Williamson. You probably have no idea who he is. Google him.

Your two people don’t make up for the 1000s killed that were not burglars or out to hurt anyone.

I’m sure the parents of those little kids will be comforted by your TWO examples of anecdotal evidence. I’ll even give you a 3rd with that lady in Texas that shot dead some dude who was breaking into her house to rape her. and still 3 examples ain’t enough

My life has not been idealistic. I have had to deal with some weird stuff. You have no idea what “my way” is or what I think.

Are you saying the person that you have put forth here on the forum is not your true self, your true feelings and attitudes? that you’re completely opposite of what you’ve been so angry about in this thread?

I can understand that… to an extent. I don’t always argue for the side I agree with here. Hell, This thread I’ve taken the “Ban all Guns” side and that isn’t my true feelings/thoughts on the subject. But for some reason I think your real thoughts are closer to what you have put forth here than not

I don’t have the patience to correct and defend your incorrect assumptions and assertions about things as you have done in the preceding handful of posts`.

What could be more important than setting the record straight about you aligning yourself with a bunch of nutbars? Cause I gotta tell ya’ it’s not just me. If I have your position wrong then so do millions of other people because right now you sound like those nut bags… tell us why yer not with those people.

So, if you take my leaving the conversation as a big loud “fuck you” then so be it. But ultimately, I have more worthwhile things to attend to.

What could be more worthwhile than helping a bunch of non understanding gun haters understand your side? What could be more worthwhile than rebutting why our concerns are unfounded?

Late,
grmpysmrf

Also, I notice by looking at the photos of their protests that they often give a bit of an illusion of being more than they are because each participant typically balances about 5 or 6 different signs.

Check out the flick “red State.” That’s pretty closely based on the westboro bunch. on the blu ray the supplements have Q&A’s and Kevin Smith talks about his counter protests against them. I think Kevin Smith’s too fat for 40 performance also has a bit on the westboro bunch as well. interesting stuff
Late,
grmpysmrf

“Red State”, eh? I just looked it up and got dizzy reading the plot, but . . . The poster is AWESOME!!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_State_(2011_film)

“Red State”, eh? I just looked it up and got dizzy reading the plot, but . . . The poster is AWESOME!!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_State_(2011_film)

It watches easier than it reads!
Late,
grmpysmrf

All most of us who are pro-gun control are asking is that owning a gun should be regulated at least as much as cars are…titled and tagged and insured and inspected on a regular basis. That’s all.

As a gun owner, I certainly agree with this. I’m trying to sell a vehicle currently, and it’s a pain in the ass. It would, without exaggeration, be easier to sell one of my handguns to a private buyer.

And you certainly have to go through more loops to get a driver’s license… yet does every driver we encounter belong behind the steering wheel?

I’m a bit baffled why people consider the Constitution such an infallible document that never needs revising when they bring up the 2nd Amendment. This is the same document that originally counted black people as 3/5ths of a person for their owner and didn’t allow women to vote.

Regarding the Westboro Baptist Church, the Theroux documentary is worth a look. I believe someone split it up into 8 parts on youtube, and can start here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOrz5k0jWdU. The follow-up is also on there. They initially started with the gay bashing, but that eventually brought diminishing returns. By 2005 they discovered that protesting dead veterans pissed people off more, despite what they felt about homosexuality.

I actually saw them in person when they came protest at my podunk university about 8 years ago.

I believe someone split it up into 8 parts on youtube, and can start here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOrz5k0jWdU.

Thank you, Sir! I’ll check it out.

[replyWhat could be more worthwhile than helping a bunch of non understanding gun haters understand your side? What could be more worthwhile than rebutting why our concerns are unfounded?

What’s the point? It’s obvious that you don’t even listen to what I say.
[/reply]
What have you said? “we need armed guards at schools.”? that isn’t a fix. That isn’t even a band aid, that’s just foolish

You can dissect my posts but your comprehension is lacking.

My comprehension has to be pretty solid to be able to dissect you posts.

You’re calling me a nut job and a bad person because I said I would not voluntarily give up my unregistered gun.

Hypothetically I’m calling you a nut job. If all guns were banned and you still kept your unregistered gun then yeah you are a nut and a criminal at that.

Right now now, I just think your arrogant irresponsible for keeping an unregistered weapon. and yeah, the irresponsible probably shouldn’t keep weapons

Guess what? It isn’t required to be registered. Most guns aren’t. Some are. Most aren’t.

I was under the impression that all guns had to be registered and it is a felony if it’s not. You’re telling me this is wrong?

My point was that there are a lot of guns out there and most of the owners aren’t the types to hand them over voluntarily. The govt has no clue where they are or who owns them. So, even if all guns were banned there would still be a lot of guns out there.

I didn’t think a government official would come to your door…but as they’re brandished or found they would be confiscated and destroyed

And banning certain types of guns such as assault weapons are handguns will only nudge people to non-military types, which are often more deadly or more powerful.

we give our military crap guns? street guns are more powerful? that makes no sense. although I do know about the shittiness of the M16

The whole and only point of me posting here was to assert that the only people who have said something that would actually prevent attacks are the NRA who suggested guarding schools.

We all already knerw this about the NRA. If you go reread your post it would appear you agree with it…

Meanwhile, your condemning weapons that you nothing about.

I know they kill, I know they’re offensive weapons, I know they’re seldom defensive weapons. I know enough.

You’re accusing people who don’t have registered weapons that aren’t even required to be registered of being bad people.

As I said, I am under the impression that all firearms are supposed to be registered.

You’re suggesting legislation will help things when you can look at any similar type thing (prohibition, war on drugs) and they have failed miserably.

you’re comparing a chemical dependency to the need to posses a firearm, not the same thing.

I’m flat out saying that no legislation is going to get passed anytime soon that will do anything so the chance of it preventing what happened recently is nil.

I know. I understand that and I’m saying it has to start somewhere. is a signature on a bill gonna fix this? no of course not, this shit ishere to stay for a long time, but it’s way past the time to start regulating this shit and if it starts with a signature on a bill then so be it, as long as it starts.

The only way to make a change is for Obama to enact marshal law and have soldiers search every house and seize any gun that is found.

That is just silly. there isn’t enough man power for this and it was cause more problems than solve.

That is ultimately the ONLY way guns will be removed from USA. Do you disagree with this?

If we’re trying to solve this by Wednesday then yes this is the only way but I don’t think any logical thinking person is advocating this. I don’t even think this is even an option and even more stupid than the armed guards at school idea.

Do you think there is ANYTHING that can be done in Washington DC that will make a difference? I am asking you to be realistic. I am not asking for what you think should happen in an ideal world.

Not with any amount of immediacy but legislation can be started to destroy found unregistered weapons and tighten gun ownership rules.

We don’t live in one. If you can’t get that, then what is the point in me talking to you?

because we have to live together in this country and we may as well try to find any common ground rather than just hate each other.

I am not trying to convince you are even say that people need guns. What I am saying is that they already have them and they aren’t going to give them up.

I agree, with this but if legislation is passed and people are found to possess these guns while out shooting maybe showing off to a friend then perhaps that should be grounds to strip them of all of their guns… It’s not gonna happen over night. I think your the only one that thinks that it is.

And to extend that, I am saying that Washington is so f’ed up that couldn’t pass a bill to even put a dent in the number of guns out there if they tried.

That’s due to the lobbyists

So, what’s left? All that is left is to deal with what we have. So, tell me how we can prevent intruders from entering schools on Jan 3rd by means other than securing entrances?

All I’m saying is that you can’t secure the entrances enough. there are fences to jump back doors to go through. With out making school look like a prison which kinda defeats the purpose of education

Late,
grmpysmrf

I like how you position yourself as a realist while still believing turning the school system into a surveillance state would be the easiest and most effective cure-all.

DJ Pon-3 is a sensible guy.
He’s not saying we all WANT to live in a world where guards are posted at every school, he’s saying that given the unchangeable factors that exist, it is A solution. No, not a be all end all solution, but a proposed POSSIBLE means of reducing such on campus violence.

Guards CAN do this. I would never argue they can’t. Will they eliminate ever possible scenario? No. And that is not what he’s saying.

Will eliminating every gun in America eliminate gun violence? Of course. But it’s an IMPOSSIBLE proposition.

Now, my argument to the armed guard scenario has not ever been conceptual or ideological. It’s been economic. The good ones cost a buttload.

If someone else (besides me) if footing this bill, I really don’t have an argument against it.

DJ Pon-3 is a sensible guy.
He’s not saying we all WANT to live in a world where guards are posted at every school, he’s saying that given the unchangeable factors that exist, it is A solution. No, not a be all end all solution, but a proposed POSSIBLE means of reducing such on campus violence.

Why is it unchangeable? If it’s not an end all be all then when does it stop? If the gun situation is not changeable why is the armed prison schools changeable?

Guards CAN do this. I would never argue they can’t. Will they eliminate ever possible scenario? No. And that is not what he’s saying.

Kinda the same argument I’m making about gun reduction

Will eliminating every gun in America eliminate gun violence? Of course. But it’s an IMPOSSIBLE proposition.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting this.

Now, my argument to the armed guard scenario has not ever been conceptual or ideological. It’s been economic. The good ones cost a buttload. If someone else (besides me) if footing this bill, I really don’t have an argument against it.

So you’re saying you don’t care if we have to live with armed guards at every public place… it’s just financial with you? How depressing.
Late,
grmpysmrf

Grumpy, I read through your replies and they are either wrong or idealistic nonsense. I can’t waste time talking to you if you are going to repeatedly say things that are factually wrong. Therefore I am going to have to go ahead and just say that I won this argument and leave it at that.

Sure, I’ll go ahead and take your word for it. [rolleyes] you seem to be right so far with endorsing idea of prison like schools.
Late,
grmpysmrf

Every place I have worked as a professional has been secure. That did not stop an employee from taking an admin assistant and his own boss hostage and eventually shoot and kill his boss in his boss’ own office. Mind you, weapons are strictly prohibited for those other than the protective services security team.

The ‘security’ we have is a bunch of administrative controls with physical barriers just like any other ‘secure’ facility. It will not stop the determined.

Perhaps we can get ARMED GUARDS at all Police stations now as well.

D’oh!
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/28/three-cops-reportedly-shot-inside-new-jersey-police-station/

The suspect “obtained a firearm” during the struggle, police sources said

Let’s talk idiocy, Carmangary!
Let’s talk idealistic, Carmangary!
Let’s talk just plain wrong, Carmangary!

You are the fool! GUNS DO NOT KEEP ANYONE SAFE. You sound like a paranoid, delusional, extremist, gun nut wacko.
Late,
grmpysmrf

Every place I have worked as a professional has been secure. That did not stop an employee from taking an admin assistant and his own boss hostage and eventually shoot and kill his boss in his boss’ own office. Mind you, weapons are strictly prohibited for those other than the protective services security team.

The ‘security’ we have is a bunch of administrative controls with physical barriers just like any other ‘secure’ facility. It will not stop the determined.

According to Dj Pon3 here, that situation never existed 'cause secure facilities can never be breeched, so any of the numerous examples where it actually happened are most probably just lies, cause the mighty righteous gun will always stop the angry gun before anything bad happens.
Late,
grmpysmrf

[reply][reply]Grumpy, I read through your replies and they are either wrong or idealistic nonsense. I can’t waste time talking to you if you are going to repeatedly say things that are factually wrong. Therefore I am going to have to go ahead and just say that I won this argument and leave it at that.

Sure, I’ll go ahead and take your word for it. [rolleyes] you seem to be right so far with endorsing idea of prison like schools.
Late,
grmpysmrf[/reply]

How many secure facilities have you worked at? I have worked at military bases, nuclear power plants, data centers, and factories where security was about as tight as it gets. None of them felt like prison to me. None of them looked like prison. It just means being able to verify who you are and that you have business there before being allowed to enter. If you equate security with prison then I am going to have to equate you with an idiot.[/reply]
It’s a damn shame fort hood wasn’t secure, or that new jersey Police Station for that matter, or Columbine what with their sheriff officer and what not.

you’re grasping at straws while running in 8 different directions and calling people idiots! talk about “idiot!”
Late,
grmpysmrf