Along with armed guards in school, apparently we need armed guards at every burning building as well…
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/24/16125861-4-volunteer-firefighters-shot-2-killed-in-apparent-trap?lite
Late,
grmpysmrf
Yup, I saw that article this morning also thanks to a friend.
NRA is delusional.
Yee haww lets just give everyone a freakin gun and completely ignore peoples mental condition.
That makes sense right?
Every school, burning building, mall, church, cub scout meeting, circus, Chuck E Cheese, etc, etc, ad infinitum.
The NRA is nuts.
Columbine had an armed sheriff’s deputy.
Fort Hood is a military base. Plenty of guns there, yet a single gunman killed 13 people and wounded 29 others.
I think the NRA’s bizarre press conference did more harm to their cause than if they just remained quiet.
And so another pro-NRA, LaPierre apologist reads “they’re coming for all our guns” into a discussion about firearm regulation for the millionth time since December 14th.
BTW, the person in CT wasn’t a gunner…he was a murderer who used an assault weapon to kill 20 children who were 6 & 7 years old.
Maybe the NRA want a doomsday scenario where those with the best or more guns survive.
But it seems to be always the case that people are much more adamant about preserving what they have instead of seeking some change.
I have what I have and I don’t really need it but I’ll be damned if I let you take it away from me.
It’s in situations like these that a great shame is revealed - that the brutal murder of 20 kids is not enough to get an overwhelming consensus behind tackling this gun madness. There’s more than one question to be asked here
Can you offer a better solution?
Yeah I can.
Guns are already outlawed on school grounds.
SO what??? the guns that kid got weren’t outlawed… would he have had easy access to guns if they were outlawed? I’m guessing no. cause a kid of this caliber probably wouldn’t have the scratch to pay high dollar amounts for black market weapons. THis kind of shit would take planning not just carried out on a fuckin’ whim!
Obviously the gunner ignore that rule.
And he did so very easily didn’t he.
Killing people is illegal.
Then what reason is there for high powered weaponry? What is a guns sole purpose? to fucking kill people. That’s like saying you can own a car but it’s against the law to drive!
The gunner ignored that rule.
and he did so quite easily didn’t he?
We can outlaw all guns and they will still be around for decades.
It’s a got to start somewhere.
Some of the honest people will give them up. I would keep mine stashed somewhere.
So #1, way to let everyone know you aren’t honest. and #2 what good is a firearm if you have it stashed somewhere?? maybe a child could find it and accidentally shoot someone… maybe that someone would be you… No not me it never happens to me…until it does.
It’s unregistered.
That’s against the law…just like shooter, you apparently think laws only pertain to others… what an excellent picture of yourself you’re painting here.
No way I would surrender it.
I hear ya’ an unregistered gun stashed away somewhere is really keeping us all safe.
So, even with laws saying people can’t even own guns people will own them and we can’t prevent someone with one of them from flipping out and shooting kids.
That’s right but we can lessen the times that it happens and over time, hopefully shit like this will be become unheard of.
All you can do is secure the schools like we secured airports if you are serious about protecting kids inside.
I prefer not to live in a military state where everywhere I go I have to through security checkpoints where I’m presumed guilty of packing a gun to kill people…
Funny how military bases have those same requirements and yet Fort Hood still happened…
If you can think of a better idea to immediately protect school kids bring it on.
Nothing ever seldom works immediately but waiting around for 300 million guns to be 600 million is not the answer. read your history the Wild west was a brutal fucked up place to live and I’d like to think that we’ve grown as a society and would prefer not to have to live in that time.
Gun legislation may protect people decades from now but not tomorrow.
it’s got to start somewhere and it’s better than the current, since guns aren’t even protecting people now
Late,
grmpysmrf
[reply][reply]Can you offer a better solution?
Yeah I can. [/reply]
Then do it. In your reply you didn’t offer anything that would protect kids at schools. [/reply][/reply]
neither have you. limiting guns is the start of a solution.
You do realize that the rifle that the school shooter guy used was a .223 caliber rifle which isn’t even considered high power. [u]It’s good for killing people only because it is accurate and it doesn’t really take a lot to kill a person.[/u] A deer rifle has much more power.
That’s right, to kill people, so if this gun is easier to kill PEOPLE with why is it allowed?? What other purpose does it serve?
And like I said, making laws in Washington is as slow as dirt.
Only because you have lobby nuts like the NRA. but it’s a process and you never get to the end of a process without starting… so really what you’re proposing is “It’s so hard why bother?” excellent philosophy.
It won’t protect anyone tomorrow, next week, next year.
neither does having guns… that argument has proven false time and time again. so lets start another direction.
The NRA’s solution sounds crazy but only because we live in a crazy world
First off the NRA is offering no solution they are offering more of the same and we know what the same gets us. Dead children. if their solution sounds crazy in a crazy world you’d think that it would come across as sane since crazy and crazy go together. but we live in a crazy world and they are still coming off as crazy then you know there is a problem.
where we have to protect ourselves from idiots who don’t abide by the rules.
you mean like people who keep unregistered weapons when it’s the rules to register… you’re doing yourself no favors here
If you want to see more crazy people come out of the woodwork a good way to do it is to start talking about taking away their rights.
this is you’r only decent point but I would think that those angry people would target washinton politicians not not “bullies”
So, give me your solution that will protect kids at school on Jan 3rd when they go back?
less guns
Is a bill in DC going to do anything?
eventually
What about a cop guarding the entrance of a school?
I don’t know, lets ask the sheriff that was “guarding” columbine
Long term, it would be a nice utopia to get all guns off the planet. Will it happen? Never. So deal with it and offer a solution that works.
Fuck the planet how about just our country??
I’ll get to your other post later. got Xmas dinner to attend to.
Late,
grmpysmrf
You know, if you give up your gun, it’s not actually like giving up your penis.
Also, lets talk about assault weapons that everyone thinks we should ban now. Does anyone know what one is? Basically, it’s just a semi-automatic weapon which might have a pistol grip, bayonet, holds more than 10 rounds, uses a magazine, etc. Typically these are intermediate power rifles such as the .223 round. Even the larger 3.72x39mm (AK-47 round) doesn’t have the power that a typical deer rifle such as a 30.06 would have.
Meaning they can’t kill anyone and are therefore harmless? So what’s the point you’re trying to make?
Taking away assault rifles might prevent people with Rambo fantasies from doing crazy stuff but it won’t stop some Clint Eastwood wannabe from walking down the street with a 30-30 Winchester lever action and picking off choir boys.
How come taking away assault rifles will stop the Rambo fantasies but taking away all guns won’t stop “some Clint Eastwood wannabe from walking down the street with a 30-30 Winchester lever action and picking off choir boys.”?
If people want to control guns they should at least do it in a way that makes sense. Guns that look like they are for the military are no more deadly than one that looks like what grandpa used on the farm.
What do you propose… I’m not for taking away all guns. I just took that side right now because that appeared to be the side you wanted me (anyone else) to take. And it’s an easy side to take in light of the other extreme option.
Late,
grmpysmrf
One armed guard/officer or several at each school is not going to stop this from happening. Nor will body scanners, X-ray machines, clear backpacks, etc. at each school stop this from happening in the future.
All people with mental issues being treated for their illness will also not stop this from happening.
Taking all legal guns away will not stop this from happening.
Enacting new legislation and tightening up the existing legislation will not stop this from happening. A license, a registration list, training,trigger locks/safes, accountability for the gun owner if weapon is used in a crime, automatic harsher jail sentances for armed crimes, etc. are all options.
However, all of these things combined should make it less likely to happen in the future. Someone will always invent a better mousetrap.
The .223 tears up the internals. The .30-06 makes a big hole even at a long distance.
[reply]Can you offer a better solution?
Yeah I can…
Your arguments sound about as thought out as the ones from people who say the answer is to put God back in school.
[/reply]
Hardly.
According to Barack Obama my taxes would go down since I make less than $200K or whatever it was. Meanwhile, what is going on in Washington right now with this “fiscal cliff” BS?
way off topic.
You really have much faith that they are going to manage to take away the 2nd amendment anytime in the next 20 yrs? Hell, I’m still waiting for Obamacare to kick in.
A little bit at a time. Obamacare isn’t supposed to take effect until 2014, after that it’s on your state Governor.
I’m not saying not to bother doing anything. What I am saying is that the NRAs assertion that schools should be guarded is about the only idea I can think of that will immediately prevent this happening again, which happens to be the topic of this thread.
But that’s the point!!! Going to school under an armed guard may sound like utopia to you but to most decent civilized people having to go everywhere with an armed escort is no kind of life…
What’s the alternative? if guns really made us safe we wouldn’t need armed guards. your rational looks like this:
Plutonium is dangerous so for us all to be safe the answer is more plutonium.
that makes no sense.
It’s in the NRA’s best interest to create this whole culture of fear and aggression that leads to more fear and aggression and it is clearly out of hand… CLEARLY.
Again, what is your great idea for preventing the same thing from happening on Jan 3rd when kids go back to school?
you think sending in armed guards to schools solves everything? Talk about idealistic fool. Guns CLEARLY DON’T KEEP ANYONE SAFE. Columbine and fort hood are testimony enough of that and if you can’t see that then not only are an idealistic fool but you’re a blind fool too!
A fuckin’ military base! A FUCKIN MILITARY BASE!!! Guns everywhere everyone came out alive right? you know they didn’t. there goes your guns=safety argument!
If your answer is to ban guns, or to send a bill to Obama then you are an idealistic idiot. Did the NRA say or even infer that the ultimate long term solution is to post armed guards everywhere?
I was just following their logic. but now that you mention when does it end? How long before we can remove the armed guards from everywhere?
Personally, I don’t believe that the odds of this happening again warrant much of anything
Odds? people are dying needlessly and you wanna play the odds, fuck that! this is at the point where it’s happening yearly
but I do believe access to guns should be clamped down.
Well, then when it comes down to it you and I have nothing really to argue about, because this is my true position, as well … but I’ll keep playing the “ban all guns” side if you wanna continue this debate. I’ve said many times, I’m a true liberal in that people ought to be able to do whatever they want as long as as it doesn’t effect anyone else… you want a gun? have a gun but I don’t want a gun.
But going off half cocked and doing things to take guns away from honest people is not a sane move.
The argument could easily be made that anyone who wants guns isn’t sane
As far as my rifle. It was given to me. I did not register it.
So that makes it okay… wait til it’s stolen. “Oh no officer, it was given to me, didn’t need to register.”
At one point, a police officer was in my house because I had to file a report and I actually brought up my gun (which is an SKS 7.62x39 semi-automatic gas carbine with a bayonet) and offered to show it to him. I wanted to make sure that it was legal and told him the whole story. He said it was fine.
because he didn’t want to file another report he said it was okay? an unregistered gun is never OK. Why don’t you take that gun to the sheriff’s station and get a second opinion? cause you know the truth that’s why.
So, take your condescending attitude about the legalities of my rifle and shove it until you know what you are talking about.
That’s really the problem isn’t it, you said it yourself. people don’t follow the rules of gun ownership, and unfortunately for the rest of the “sane gun owners” there are far too many people like yourself that think gun laws are for other people. you aren’t special, register your fuckin weapon you goddamn law breaker!
Anyway, I’m done with this conversation.
Of course you are, if it can’t be your way you take your ball and go home. no talking, no debating, no exchange of ideas, just a loud “fuck you” and you storm off. brilliant strategy.
off topic…
I seriously hope you don’t leave for good again. I really like you and your brand of snark, I usually look forward to your posts but because we don’t agree politically doesn’t mean you should right this place off.
btw glad you’re looking forward to the affordable care act… (obamacare) hopefully your governor is an asshole and refuses to implement it that way Obama can implement single payer in your state.
Late,
grmpysmrf
We can’t even afford to staff schools with a sufficient amount of teachers, let alone armed guards.
We can’t even afford to staff schools with a sufficient amount of teachers, let alone armed guards.
that’s a good point. although the NRA said they would fund the guards, well at least the training of them, I don’t know if they would pick up their salary too.
Late,
grmpysmrf
I’ve read in some places they explained away the money problem by saying the armed guards would be skilled volunteers. I don’t want to know what kind of people volunteer to carry a gun around a school.
HAHAHAHAHAHAA!!! At least their rage and indignation is properly directed at the REAL enemy . . .
. . . an ignorant boob reporter who dumbly pulled out a an empty and unattached high-volume magazine clip on TV and inadvertantly violated a gun/ammunition law . . . thereby inspiring people to start an online petition to take action against him.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50297849
Good times.
Even more funny apparently baptists are now left wingers… apparently left wingerers now only believe in god in order to make him hate other people that they are always tolerant of you know like gay people and children…
http://gawker.com/5971256/fox-news-refers-to-the-westboro-baptist-church-as-a-left+wing-cult
I completely detest fox “news”… Have I mentioned that before?
Late,
grmpysmrf
Even just for the sake of my own amusement (I was considering trying this just to break Grumpy’s balls), I can’t really come up with even a far-fetched rationale of HOW that group would possibly be considered “Leftist”.
I would actually accept an argument from someone disagreeing with them being painted as right OR left, just because their hateful lunacy really transcends political boundary. And I would also accept someone who argued that the WBC are not “Christian” . . . not by using the WBC’s own self-chosen labels, as I know that according to them they are pretty much the ONLY true Christians on the planet, but in a philosophical sense that they are really NOT showing themselves to be examples of Christlike love . . . or love of any kind, for that matter.
I’d really love to have a serious study of “members” of this so-called church. Do they really believe in what they are doing, or are they just lovers of evil shenanigans.
I really do find them kind of interesting and don’t think there’s been enough REAL coverage or investigation into the group. It’s always just superficial and exploiting of the obvious. Yeah, they’re deluded hateful bastards, DUH! But there’s something else there. Just, what, though?
I’d really love to have a serious study of “members” of this so-called church.
Its only like 6 people and and they are all related by blood or marriage
I really do find them kind of interesting
Who wouldn’t? These people are, at the very least, odd. Odd by itself is fascinating and these people are way beyond odd.
and don’t think there’s been enough REAL coverage or investigation into the group.
Kinda hard to when there are so few of them and they are so reclusive, meaning they only stay on message when they are out no matter what’s asked of them.
Late,
grmpysmrf