anyone care to comment upon the deal in iran

I’m still undecided as to whether the election was rigged. It’s hard to tell from an outsider’s perspective what exactly the situation is. I do know Ahmandinejad’s very popular in the rural regions whereas Moussavi’s supporters are more urban-based.

The Iranian political system is a lot more complex than, say, the American system. The President’s purview is mostly domestic and economic policies, whereas the Supreme Leader has power over the military, guides foreign policy, etc. So even if Moussavi became President, it still would not negate the fact that the Ayatollah and the judiciary have powers that in many ways supplant the President’s powers.

Now, if the protestors tried to overthrow Khamenei…

it certainly would be nice if “we could all just get along”
right.
that shit don’t happen.
it won’t. and too bad. i try my best to be cordial within the collection of peeps who visit here–vast, many more educated than i, and move your stuff.
the situation in iran is more urgent than our own current bs.
it is.
I Think, it’s urgent.

I do know Ahmandinejad’s very popular in the rural regions whereas Moussavi’s supporters are more urban-based.

yeah cause he built roads and extended services (power and water If I remember right) and what not, but the easy question to ask yourself is this:

“assuming every single rural voter voted for Ahmandinejad, (Which they probably didn’t but for the sake of argument…) is that enough voters to displace those in the city that all, apparently, voted against Ahmandinejad?”

in my experiece in societies, i would say that there seems to be considerably more amounts of population in the city than the ouskirts of cities!
Late,
grmpysmrf

Still hoping this is the Iranian Bastille Day and not the Iranian Tiananmen Square.

There was a wonderful movie called ‘persepolis’ based on a comic that showed how life was like in iran (I believe) once the current regime took over and how hard and oppressive it became.
life’s fucked up all over this planet
it’s just comparing apples to oranges with problems
obviously some people have it way worse than others and us white dominated countries tend to have it much better

It has been reported that the majority of Iran’s population (about 75%) is under age 30.

The legal voting age was 15, but was raised to 18 in 2006 for national elections. Persian women gained the right to vote in 1963.

The youth wanted change (to be able to hold their gf/bf’s hand in public, to sit at a cafe and have a beer, to listen to music they like, etc.). Thus, the youth would have went out in record numbers to vote.

Not that I believe everything I hear or read, but it was also reported that about 80% of the population voted.

Unless dead people are allowed to cast a ballot, I say the numbers don’t work out. It was rigged based on the previously mentioned information and the following: conservatively, say there are 75 people under age 30 and 25 people over age 30. Even if 50% of the 75 people are under age 18 (voting age), that leaves 37.5 people to vote (and accounts for those that didn’t vote who could have and those that voted for the current president). So take 80% of the 37.5, that leaves us with 24 people under 30 who voted. 80% of 25 people over 30 is 20 people and all of them would have had to vote for the current president! Last time I checked, 24 is greater than less than 20.

MSNBC just said that the regime said anybody caught protesting the results will be executed. damn

MSNBC just said that the regime said anybody caught protesting the results will be executed. damn

Damn that sucks! Although, that dickhead is gonna have to execute millions of people based on the protests i saw going on. good luck to that asshole trying to enforce that! Well when those people go out and protest ne way that’s when they are free and are on their way liberty/democracy.
(was that story on Olberman?? I haven’t watched him tonight yet.)
Late,
grmpysmrf

The thing with Iran is it was fucked from the very beginning.

Go back to 1979.

Khomeini. His attempts to instill a theocracy have always been flawed.

Especially when you consider the collective persona of the Iranian people. Iran is a nation that is 5,000 years old. The people identify first and foremost with being Iranian than they do with being Islamic. If anything, they are a highly autonomous and egalitarian people, which is the reason their first attempts for a democracy can be traced as far back as the second decade of the 20th century.

Unfortunately, this was doomed to failure on account of pro-(Shah)Monarchist interference on account of the British and American empires who had a vested interested in Iran’s abundant natural resources (oiiiillll)

Fast forward to 1979. The monarchy is deposed amidst a wave of popular support. Popular URBAN support for a DEMOCRACY.

Khomeini comes back from exile. Ever the Macchiavellian opportunist, he mobilises the rural population to gain some form of ascendancy over his political opponents. He’s a hardliner, but he’s shrewd.

Here’s an example: back in the 60s, he vehemently opposed female suffrage. In 79, he (begrudgingly) supported it on account of the level of female support he had gained (on account of being a studmuffin? fucked if I know any better).

He wanted an explicitly devoutly Muslim nation that defined itself as being governed by the fundamental tenets of Islam and governed by Allah himself, on behalf of the will of a ‘nominated’ leader who himself was supposed to be directly descended from the original Twelvist Shiite Muslims (key word here is ‘supposed’. Dictators use any emotive means to justify their authority, no matter how ultimately flimsy. Hence why any Ayatollah is more a dictator than a religious figure, in my opinion).

A wave of popular opinion opposed Khomeini’s proposition. He was forced to concede a democracy. He proposed a theocratic system where, indeed Iran would be governed by Allah himself, but would incorporate some democratic processes:

  1. The Leader is the direct representative of Allah. All are to obey his will.
  2. The Assembly of Experts: a group of 86 Twelvist Shiite clerics who determine the position of the Leader/Ayatollah.
  3. The Council of Guardians: a group of 12 Clerics nominated by the Leader… who have the capacity to veto all decisions made by the Parliament and Assembly of Experts. So basically… the Leader’s position is effectively unassailable.
  4. A Parliament and President elected by popular ballot.

It is this self-contradictory system which I believe not only highlights Macchiavellian brilliance of Khomeini, but also the level of voter apathy that has plagued Iran up until recently. In past elections, nominated candidates have been known to have their positions vetoed by the Assembly of Experts or Council of Guardians, and this has led to weak voter turnouts and general disenchantment amongst the voting populace. So the age for suffrage was reduced to 15.

But when shit has gotten hectic for Ahmadinejad and his hardliner cronies… the age was increased to 18. This is generally because of the ballot influence of the ‘new’ Iranian. The young Iranian has only heard stories of their forefather’s heroic battle stories of the Iran-Iraq war. They didn’t experience it directly. Hence why the popularity of Ahmadinejad, who fought in those wars and used his role as a soldier to appeal to his generation, has declined. The kids just don’t relate to it. And they are certainly tired their impositions their theocratic system has placed on their lives.

They are better able to communicate with the multitudes of ex-pat Iranians in America, Australia and Germany. They see what the Western world has delivered for their cousins, friends, extended family, etc. They continue to exist in a system that not only imposes upon their lives, but are plagued by unemployment and an economy that is almost entirely dependent on oil by is effectively screwed by their international relations (however, I consider this factor understandable; if you’d had your nation systematically fucked over by the west over the course of a century, it’d be a little difficult to want to deal with them on ‘normal’ terms again).

Bottom line is: Ahmadinnerjacket has to go. He won’t. Not for a while, at least.

Iran’s system is less a theocracy than a totalitarian system. Khomeini wanted nothing more than to;

  1. Dominate the lives of the populace. I’ve seen no evidence that states otherwise.
  2. Use Islam to permeate the lives and thinking of the Iranian populace to consolidate his will and rule.

How to make the world a better place in 5 easy steps:

  1. Nuke North Korea
  2. Send Hilton, Kardashian, and Octomom to the moon
  3. End all reality TV
  4. Shut down Ticketmaster
  5. Release Early Trax 2 and In Case/YGDSOB DVDs

1002

AGREED!

Seriously can you believe how connected we are to the world here in 2009. Amazing! We’re talking about Iran’s govt. I dont understand how Amadinijerk would want to stay in office when pretty much the whole country hates the fuck.

damn, professor!!
how much of this is going to be on the test?
Late,
grmpysmrf

study hard, and you shall go far. [;)]

  1. Send … Kardashian … to the moon

Not before a bit of sexy time though. Man she is a specimen.

i visited poland about a month before solidarity happened. (some here are probably shaking their heads)but true story.
in warsaw, there wasn’t a single face on the street without a grim expression. it was like time standing still in a photograph.
i have friends whose families may be affected by the outcome/recount in this election.
yeah. we’re part of the white elite, living here in the US.

evil dildo is my new best friend.
thanks for the history.

Most Polish people I know still have a grim expression. They have nicknames. They don’t mind… I think.

i’m certain one of those nicknames isn’t "sto lat’.

Usually replace their surnames with Irish ones.

The only genuinely upbeat Polish guy I know is called ‘Bleak Pavel’.

yeah. we’re part of the white elite, living here in the US.

Please don’t lay that liberal white guilt thing on us.

About Kardashian, she is fucking hot! Fatten the bitch up with some cupcakes/cheese and send her moon to me!

And that list sucks. It should go like this:

  1. Eliminate Islam and all other theistic religions

[reply]
yeah. we’re part of the white elite, living here in the US.

Please don’t lay that liberal white guilt thing on us.

About Kardashian, she is fucking hot! Fatten the bitch up with some cupcakes/cheese and send her moon to me!

it’s not guilt it’s more or less the truth… think of any country on your “i wish i lived there” list. and chances are it’s a majority white country. The extreme problems of brutality and murder and violence and dictatorships and all that don’t really exist outside of the non-white run/majority countries. sure we have crime and murder here in america, but the chances are a gang coming in the night to raid your house, tie you and yourfamily up, rape the women, rob you, and then kill them in front of you, well it’s just not as prevalent here or in europe.
And that list sucks. It should go like this:

  1. Eliminate Islam and all other theistic religions[/reply]