ok, so this will surely get me “flamed” or something, but…
why do people keep sayign that al has all these burned bridges?
i mean i know he’s still on good terms with Mike S, and a few other people, but what happened with everyone? why no OhGr or Conelly or anythign on the last few albums? what happened with all the classic guests?
if someoen coudl explain what happened to all of them with al, id be very happy. if nto thats cool too.
As far as I know, Ogre and Al are on good terms (didnt Al do guest vocals live for SP a little while back?).
The idea I get from connelly (from his book and his posts): he had nothing against Al. The drugs and environment took it’s toll on him and he had enough and wanted to do something new. Played with ministry in 03, but his heart is somewhere completely different now. And then paul left, and was apparently accused of some things (yeah, even then the finger was pointed at him), and chris’ attitude towards Al was far from positive after that. Impression I get at least. I mean, how can you go from performing a song on stage with him, to bad mouthing within two years. Granted, things probably have happened. But that’s the idea I get of that. I don’t this chris hates Al though, but likely will never work with again for obvious reasons. I mean come on! Have you heard The Episodes? Do you think he’d work with Al again after listening to that? heh It’s all behind him anyway.
I think rieflin probably left for the same reasons as chris, but stuck around a little longer. Don’t really think he even speaks about that stuff anymore.
I never heard of any bad blood with Rieflin, I think he just left because he got much more lucrative offers from REM etc.
He didn’t join REM until recently…like 2003-4-ish…He left ministry and started playing with kmfdm (95-02) and a bunch of other bands. I doubt there’s any bad blood between the two, but he likely left for the same reasons as chris, who likely had enough of the antics and wanted to do something different.
I know the band post 92, sans saccia seem to absolutely hate him also (washem, etc.).
when have chris connelly or paul barker had the audacity to "shoot (their) mouth(s) off. give it up.
al’s the only one who’s vomited to the press about his former bandmates who by the way were not hired guns. were it not for everyone else, al would be living in his car now.they’re co-songwriters.
he knows it.
so do about a hundred other people connected to the machine for a couple of decades.
Judging by Chris’ book at least, Al’s character and attitude towards recording etc. is fairly obvious immediately when you meet him. Therefore, while Al’s actions cant all be defended, the musicians that now hate him for one reason or another are also partially to blame since they could have foreseen how they’d eventually be treated.
Al is a force of nature, he runs around and gets things done. That is his talent, moreso than his musical abilities. He surrounds himself with talented people and results are often wonderful. But why anyone working with him would treat the collaboration as some sort of permanent, comfortable thing is beyond me.
It goes right along with being in a band built around a strong singular personality. You’ll hear a lot of complaints from certain ex-members of NIN or Marilyn Manson as well.
well i mean, it is obvious that ministry is Al’s. he is the mastermind, and the ‘go’ of the land.
i just wanna know who has (and why) beef with him.
I don’t even know that ex-members particularly have a beef with him, but because of his personality and work ethic, these guys probably choose to work with him in small doses. It’s like quitting your job because your boss drives you nuts - why would want to ever go back to that job? I recommend you do yourself a huge favor, and read Chris’ book. Not only will you gain a ton of insight on Al J., but you’ll get to read a ton of great stories about the ‘glory days’ of Ministry and RevCo. I don’t know if Chris realizes how much some of us eat that shit up, but in regards to this forum, and Ministry fans in general, it’s a must-read.
1002
I don’t even know that ex-members particularly have a beef with him, but because of his personality and work ethic, these guys probably choose to work with him in small doses. It’s like quitting your job because your boss drives you nuts - why would want to ever go back to that job? I recommend you do yourself a huge favor, and read Chris’ book. Not only will you gain a ton of insight on Al J., but you’ll get to read a ton of great stories about the ‘glory days’ of Ministry and RevCo. I don’t know if Chris realizes how much some of us eat that shit up, but in regards to this forum, and Ministry fans in general, it’s a must-read.
1002
i’ve been wanting to get a copy, but the bookstore near me says it will take a butt-load of time to order (small shop) so im waiting till i head on up to NYC in a week or two to get it.
having been around the “mastermind” for too many years i can safely say he didn’t write the songs. everyone else got the thing started and he plugged in his 20 cents when coherent enough.
i’ll be at some of the shows upcoming.can’t wait for the adrenaline rush when the newly REALLY hired guns hit the stage.
read chris’ book.
tip of the iceberg.
having been around the “mastermind” for too many years i can safely say he didn’t write the songs. everyone else got the thing started and he plugged in his 20 cents when coherent enough.
i’ll be at some of the shows upcoming.can’t wait for the adrenaline rush when the newly REALLY hired guns hit the stage.
read chris’ book.
tip of the iceberg.
i take it you were some sort of member… and as it seems, one who feels jilted…
can i ask, who are you?
geoffrey chaucer’s the name.
and on that note, look up the word “jilted”.
groupies are jilted. people who work for a living are kicked off the bus.no mock romance involved.
geoffrey chaucer’s the name.
i just wanna say, i really loved The Canterbury Tales
don’t wish to give the genius the pleasure of a name and face to go off on in any medium whatsoever. fear of al only exists in people who suck up.
never did. never would. never will. too many more interesting talents to work with and respect and get respected in return.
Just to be clear, when I personally started working with Al, it was made plain that it was NOT democracy, and I respected that vision, I think I even talk about it in my book-the analogy I like to use is that if you are an actor in a play, the way you focus on playing your role in the best way you can, is to the greater good of the other actors, and the audience, I LIKE to respond to direction, and do it well, I also like challenges, and working with Al had these things-however, he had no problem with me going off and making solo albums, I don’t think I have ever badmouthed Al J for his working methods, because they are HIS working methods,
…does that make any sense?
I get what you mean, but personally I couldn’t do that. At first, maybe since you’re a small fish in a big pond. But, when you’re established and people begin to know who you are, why not lash out some? But if you were happy with how things were done, great! But i’m sure there’s many out there and probably here who wouldn’t do that, and want their credit due and all that’s deserved of all their hard work. You wrote a pretty damn good bit of the mind album, did you? I even remember there being dispute of who sang lead on So What. It’s that right there that seems to be my problem. Not so much “i’m in a band and i’ll do what the head honcho desires”. That’s where I stand at least.
…does that make any sense?
Yep.
There shouldn’t be an issue really if it’s made clear exactly what people’s roles are. I’ve never really understood how, say ex NIN members for instance, publicly reacted when they were dropped. I mean they must have known what the deal was.
I work completely alone so I only have to take shit from myself. Must remember to drive the point home about it being my project and mine only when hiring for the live format…
it’s really the difference between being a ‘band’ and a solo artist. both Al* and Trent are really the latter instead of the former. They both work under band moniker’s tho (Trent is NIN).
*altho until the last few years, i would have said Ministry is Al & Paul, but y’know what i mean.