Just thought I’d kick up a thread on setting things straight because with both former members of the album and Al speaking out about the album there are still things I think need to be straightened out and possibly we can paint out a complete picture of what really happened. A lot of what Wempathy (I think that’s the name) talks about is how Al really didn’t write a lot of the songs, yet at the time Al claimed he wrote those songs. But now today he’s claiming how Clive wrote the song and appointed producers to write the songs for him, and based from what Wempathy is saying… That sounds correct. Furthermore Al apparently sued to get off Arista, let’s be real people. I don’t think he sued them because he wanted to go for a harder style with a different label, it seems to me like he must of had a bad experience with that label. I’ve also heard Al mentioning how Here We Go was about blowing up Arista.
Anyone feel like sorting things out? Maybe we can do something a little productive.
Or it could be subjective- the songs started with some synth stuff that Al was working on, but Arista made so many changes that they’re not really Al’s songs any more. The music isn’t entirely unlike “real” Ministry, though the horn playing is pretty cheesy.
Keep in mind that several songs had been performed live since back in 82 (Revenge, Effigy, Work For Love), I Wanted To Tell Her had been released in a reworked instrumental form on the Cold Life single as Primental. I believe those were all actually written by the band, not Al alone. If I remember correctly, Wemp said Al disappeared in the midst of album negotiations and came back with the other half. Those are probably the part of the album he worked on with the producers.
WFL, Revenge, Effigy, SGAC (it’s a mystery to me why that made the cut) and IWTTH…all predate the WS recording sessions and had been played live in one form or another before.
The rest of the songs were entirely new to me when I showed up in Boston in February of '83 to help finish up WS. I had never heard What He Say, Here We Go, Say Your Sorry or Should Have Known Better prior to then.
I assume that those are the four songs that Arista tweaked Al into writing.
I formed my conclusions a long time ago based on the mountain of evidence that exists: the 1982 concert performances; the demo tapes; the 1981 Cold Life EP; the 1982-83 interviews with Al (posted on this site); the wonderful corroborating interviews with Pothier and Roberts (also posted on this site); and then you have Al’s track record post-1983. “With Sympathy” is Al’s record.
He was young, went back to Chicago, felt a little burned by the corporate giant, met the guys from Front 242, and decided to reinvent himself. Along the way he bumps into Adrian Sherwood and Paul Barker, and before you know it, he’s invented his own brand of industrial-metal by 1987-88 that other bands would go on to copy and replicate over and over.
I think it’s a great story…or evolution. But to pretend that “With Sympathy” didn’t happen is too bad. If you didn’t have the “With Sympathy” experience, then it’s possible that “Twitch”, “LoRaH”, and “Mind” might have never happened.
Got to give him some credit though. That’s a huge gap filled going from With Sympathy to LORAH over the course of a few years. He pulled off that switch pretty damn good too and continued it for awhile. For someone who had never heard WS, but knows everything post LORAH they’d probably htink it’s someone else unless someone told them. In the end, it’s stupid to be ashamed of. He played pop music; big fucking deal! People sitll enjoy that at least so that at least counts for something. But it’s a shame that he’s too hellbent on being big, tough uncle al.
That’s an interesting question.
I’ve also wondered if people ever showed up to mid-late-eighties Ministry shows as fans of WS, unaware of what the band had done since then…
That’s an interesting question.
I’ve also wondered if people ever showed up to mid-late-eighties Ministry shows as fans of WS, unaware of what the band had done since then…
WORD…
I can picture this going down…
WS Fanboy: “Oh, man, this show is going to be rad to the max!”
WS Fangirl: “For sure! I hope Alain plays ‘I Wanted to Tell Her!’”
Al: “THIS ONE’S CALLED THE DEITY!!!”
DundundundundundundundundunDUNdun…
WS Fanboy: “WHAT?”
WS Fangirl: “GUITARS???”
WS Fanboy and Fangirl: “NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!” heads explode
Did the versions of Effigy, Revenge, etc that were being played before With Sympathy sound any different than the album versions?
I feel that the live pre-WS versions were a bit starker. Less instrumentation. The band was only a 4 piece and there were no backing tapes or samples. The sound was more open.
Not sure if there are any late 82 live recordings around.
[reply][reply]
That’s an interesting question.
I’ve also wondered if people ever showed up to mid-late-eighties Ministry shows as fans of WS, unaware of what the band had done since then…
WORD…
I can picture this going down…
WS Fanboy: “Oh, man, this show is going to be rad to the max!”
WS Fangirl: “For sure! I hope Alain plays ‘I Wanted to Tell Her!’”
Al: “THIS ONE’S CALLED THE DEITY!!!”
DundundundundundundundundunDUNdun…
WS Fanboy: “WHAT?”
WS Fangirl: “GUITARS???”
WS Fanboy and Fangirl: “NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!” heads explode
[cool][/reply]
That’s pretty much how it went when they played at Electric Avenue in '87. We were all aware of Twitch but the guitar oriented Ministry that showed up totally took us all by surprise.[/reply]
I remember the first time I saw the video for Stigmata about a month or so before LoRaH came out, and was floored by it. I had Twitch and WS on cassette and was used to that sound. so it was quite unexpected. Then I was mildly shocked again a year later expecting Al to have a mohawk and a hardhat on the Mind tour, and he showed up wearing a bandana and hair extensions[:)]