Why people are voting for McCain...

Since most readers here are Liberal… I wanted to share with you another perspective. I found this very interesting…

I have 3 friends who all own their own business. Living “the American dream” as they say. They all are voting for McCain. The reason that they say this is because of the tax promises O’Bama is making - that it will cost $30,000 more dollars a year to run. Number figured out based upon the information received thus far. One of the three of my friends sat down with their accountant to figure this out.

If I was in their shoes I 'd vote McCain too.

Tax breaks and money is the reason why a lot of people vote Republican and I can certainly see their point. I support them on these things. Democrats, on one hand, introduce a lot of social programs and even if they are proven inefficient, they are never scrapped. This is a burden to taxpayers.

Republicans work hard for some good things as far as tax breaks such as the Death tax (if you inherit property from someone who passes you have to pay tax on this - sometimes people have to sell the property to get enough money for the tax!).

However, even multi-million and billion dollar corporations are siding with Obama so there must be more to the picture than a tax increase. This $30K tax increase - surely some of it can be written off? The only good thing about Obama’s health plan is that business will get a tax break for providing health…

The flip side to all this is that wars such as Iraq, which is costing Americans a billion a month (I think it’s around this much) will eventually trickle down to those smaller businesses. I mean if you look around now, the country will be dominated by three banks. If a company cannot get a loan for whatever reason, they are screwed now.

With this election, though, for the purely unselfish reason of how much one is bringing home, I have no problem paying the extra bit in tax if we are not going to wars, help the economy, and the country is run by a moral government. If your friends are going to be taxed the extra $30K, which is $10K/year for each of them, they must be living comfortably.

mccain keeps going on about how obama’s gonna kill small businesses. NO. his position is, if you make over 250k a year, you get taxed more than others.how many small businesses make that much money. and if you make that much money, why not pay your fair share? this is ridiculous.

I love that O’Bama, he’s a great Irish candidate! Sorry, couldn’t resist.

I think that overall the tax argument has a little less sway now than it usually does in that more and more people are becoming aware that if the overall economic situation is crap it really doesn’t matter how much tax you’re paying. Small business owners are often quite influenced by the fluctuations of the economy. A good question to ask is, how much more in taxes would I be willing to pay for a stabalized economy and then ask yourself which candidate is more likely to create a stabalized economy. Then look at potential tax increases and see if that number is worth the cost.

I think people tend to isolate tax costs and not view them as a whole part of the picture when viewing their overall security and happiness. It is this change in perspective that moved me from being an adamant (and less happy) Libertarian to being a pretty happy, light lefty (by “light lefty” I mean someone who votes and talks left but doesn’t lose sleep if things don’t roll my way).

What exactly does this 250K number refer to? Revenue? Profit?

That’s a good question. Other good question, is are we talking Business Revenue/Profit or personal? Those both change how much that affects people. A lot of small businesses do indeed make $250k revenue. Still worth it to me but it’s important to see the real reasons some people have a pull towards McCain so that we can genuinely speak to their concerns.

What exactly does this 250K number refer to? Revenue? Profit?

I’m pretty sure it’s profit… If you make (sounds like net to me) 250K you have to pay more. If you make 250k pay your fair share! amen Ed!
Late,
grmpysmrf

thankk you king smurf.(bowing the head)

If your friends are going to be taxed the extra $30K, which is $10K/year for each of them, they must be living comfortably.

Actually it’s 30K in one year on one guy’s company. Yes, he’s doing well for himself - I’m proud of him. His company profited over the $250,000 mark. He didn’t - his company did. He just had a kid, and because of his hard work he is able to take care of his family - and himself. This guy took a huge risk - he laid everything on the line of himself and his talents. And you know what - he did it. He’s not sitting around working 9-5 taking a check, and whining about how’s he’s treated unfairly at some bullshit company (like i work for). Fuck it - he started his own company. And I can tell you - he works all the time. He’s always working.

The fact that anyone thinks that he SHOULD pay $30K a year because his company made that much is idiocy with a sprinkle of jealousy. However, you guys bring up some valid points. Is it worth it to help the overall economy? I think $30K a year is harsh. I think Obama should raise that (250k) amount. Additionally, I think he should affect the tax on individuals.

What some may not realize - is that when companies (like my buddy’s) gets taxed this hard - it affects their employee’s. So truly you can say that this taxing is hurting more than it is helping. You could also say that it favors LARGE corporations and NOT individuals. Because large corps who are way over the mark - don’t give a shit. Its chump change to them. But to my buddy - its an ass-raping.

I was also thinking that the blanket amount of 250k is strange b/c that much money in LA/NY/Chi is a worth a lot less than it is for someone who lives where I do. I don’t think I would consider someone making that amount in one of the larger metros to be rich, here maybe.

So he can rewrite the national anthem to include words like Pabst Blue Ribbon, pick-up truck, and Jesus the Plumber.

So he can rewrite the national anthem to include words like Pabst Blue Ribbon, pick-up truck, and Jesus the Plumber.

I’ve been missing this sarcastic bite for a while… How’z the betis treating you? You need to add your 2 cents more often.
“What’s your favorite beer?”
“Mich-”
“Bullshit!! PABST!!! BLUE-RIBBON!”
Late,
grmpysmrf

Meh. My fasting blood #'s are a little better. Don’t think I’ll be doing any trick or treating tho!

Have to go back for a few more blood draws in a day or two. Something not quite right with the liver. F*cken vampires are draining me left and right.

Say some prayers to Wilford Brimley and teh Jesus for me!

While yer at it check out the new Wilford Brimley techno remixes on teh youtube.

Exemplary. It took a 74 yr old to make teh beetus hip.

there’s all kind of economic shennanigans that go on, and so i called someone today who knows more about taxes than i, but c’mon.if you make lots of money, you are going to pay lots in taxes.(unless you work for some corporation, and in that case, you’re in the free and clear)
sorry, but somebody has to pay for our social services. and if palin and crew think it’s un-american somehow, explain to me how when my neighbor’s house burns down, his grandma’s inside, there’s no way to effectively get her out and who comes to the rescue? oh yeah, the socialists from ems and fire dept .

sorry, but somebody has to pay for our social services. and if palin and crew think it’s un-american somehow, explain to me how when my neighbor’s house burns down, his grandma’s inside, there’s no way to effectively get her out and who comes to the rescue? oh yeah, the socialists from ems and fire dept .

And that’s all I’m sayin’.
Late,
grmpysmrf

Man this thread is funny. So much ignorance.

People who make more money should “pay their share” and somehow people who work for corporations are tax exempt? People who make more money already pay a higher percentage of their money in taxes than those who make less. If we want everyone to “pay their fair share”, let’s all pay the same percentage, how bout that?

I also find it funny that there is this belief that increasing taxes of all the companies that employ the middle class, somehow benefits the middle class. You think Johny Exxon Executive just says “well the government raised my taxes 10%, I guess I’ll just take a pay cut”. Yeah right. Who ultimately pays? The middle class employee and the middle class consumer.

If you want to really think about why a small business owner would vote republican, it goes much deeper than not wanting to pay taxes.

I know this thing is long as hell but it is worth reading if you actually care about this stuff:

"Mr. Obama,

Given the uproar about the simple question asked you by Joe the plumber, and the persecution that has been heaped on him because he dared to question you, I find myself motivated to say a few things to you myself. While Joe aspires to start a business someday, I already have started not one, but 4 businesses. But first, let me introduce myself. You can call me “Cory the well driller”. I am a 54 year old high school graduate. I didn’t go to college like you, I was too ready to go “conquer the world” when I finished high school. 25 years ago at age 29, I started my own water well drilling business at a time when the economy here in East Texas was in a tailspin from the crash of the early 80’s oil boom. I didn’t get any help from the government, nor did I look for any. I borrowed what I could from my sister, my uncle, and even the pawn shop and managed to scrape together a homemade drill rig and a few tools to do my first job. My businesses did not start as a result of privilege. They are the result of my personal drive, personal ambition, self discipline, self reliance, and a determination to treat my customers fairly. From the very start my business provided one other (than myself) East Texan a full time job. I couldn’t afford a backhoe the first few years (something every well drilling business had), so I and my helper had to dig the mud pits that are necessary for each and every job with hand shovels. I had to use my 10 year old, 1/2 ton pickup truck for my water tank truck (normally a job for at least a 2 ton truck).

A year and a half after I started the business, I scraped together a 20% down payment to get a modest bank loan and bought a (28 year) old, worn out, slightly bigger drilling rig to allow me to drill the deeper water wells in my area. I spent the next few years drilling wells with the rig while simultaneously rebuilding it between jobs. Through these years I never knew from one month to the next if I would have any work or be able to pay the bills. I got behind on my income taxes one year, and spent the next two years paying that back (with penalty and interest) while keeping up with ongoing taxes. I got behind on my water well supply bill 2 different years (way behind the second time… $80,000.00), and spent over a year paying it back (each time) while continuing to pay for ongoing supplies C.O.D… Of course, the personal stress endured through these experiences and years is hard to measure. I do have a stent in my heart now to memorialize it all.

I spent the next 10 years developing the reputation for being the most competent and most honest water well driller in East Texas. 2 years along the way, I hired another full time employee for the drilling business so that we could provide full time water well pump service as well as the well drilling. Also, 3 years along the path, I bought a water well screen service machine from a friend, starting business # 2. 5 years later I made a business loan for $100,000.00 to build a new, higher production, computer controlled screen service machine. I had designed the machine myself, and it didn’t work out for 3 years so I had to make the loan payments without the benefit of any added income from the new machine. No government program was there to help me with the payments, or to help me sleep at night as I lay awake wondering how I would solve my machine problems or pay my bills. Finally, after 3 years, I got the screen machine working properly, and that provided another full time job for an East Texan in the screen service business.

2 years after that, I made another business loan, this time for $250,000.00, to buy another used drilling rig and all the support equipment needed to run another, larger, drill rig. This provided another 2 full time jobs for East Texans. Again, I spent a couple of years not knowing if I had made a smart move, or a move that would bankrupt me. For the third time in 13 years, I had placed everything I owned on the line, risking everything, in order to build a business.

A couple of years into this, I came up with a bright idea for a new kind of mud pump, a fundamentally necessary pump used on water well drill rigs. I spent my entire life savings to date (just $30,000.00), building a prototype of the pump and took it to the national water well convention to show it off. Customers immediately started coming out of the woodworks to buy the pumps, but there was a problem. I had depleted my assets making the prototype, and nobody would make me a business loan to start production of the new pumps. With several deposits for pump orders in hand, and nowhere to go, I finally started applying for as many credit card as I could find and took cash withdrawals on these cards to the tune of over $150,000.00 (including modest loans from my dear sister and brother), to get this 3rd business going.

Yes, once again, I had everything hanging over the line in an effort to start another business. I had never manufactured anything, and I had to design and bring into production a complex hydraulic machine from an untested prototype to a reliable production model (in six months). How many nights I lay awake wondering if I had just made the paramount mistake of my life I cannot tell you, but there were plenty. I managed to get the pumps into production, which immediately created another 2 full time jobs in East Texas. Some of the models in the first year suffered from quality issues due to the poor workmanship of one of my key suppliers, so I and an employee (another East Texan employed) had to drive across the country to repair customers’ pumps, practically from coast to coast. I stood behind the product, and made payments to all the credit cards that had financed me (and my brother and sister). I spent the next 5 years improving and refining the product, building a reputation for the pump and the company, working to get the pump into drill rig manufacturers’ product lines, and paying back credit cards. During all this time I continued to manage a growing water well business that was now operating 3 drill rig crews, and 2 well service crews. Also, the screen service business continued to grow. No government programs were there to help me, Mr. Obama, but that’s ok, I didn’t expect any, nor did I want any. I was too busy fighting to make success happen to sit around waiting for the government to help me.

Now, after manufacturing the mud pumps for 7 years, my combined businesses employ 32 full time employees, and distribute $5,000,000.00 annually through the local economy. Now, just 4 months ago I borrowed $1,254,000.00, purchasing computer controlled machining equipment to start my 4th business, a production machine shop. The machine shop will serve the mud pump company so that we can better manufacture our pumps that are being shipped worldwide. Of course, the machine shop will also do work for outside companies as well. This has already produced 2 more full time jobs, and 2 more should develop out of it in the next few months. This should work out, but if it doesn’t it will be because you, and the other professional politicians like yourself, will have destroyed our countrys’ (and the world) economy with your meddling with mortgage loan programs through your liberal manipulation and intimidation of loaning institutions to make sure that unqualified borrowers could get mortgages. You see, at the very time when I couldn’t get a business loan to get my mud pumps into production, you were working with Acorn and the Community Reinvestment Act programs to make sure that unqualified borrowers could buy homes with no down payment, and even no credit or worse yet, bad credit. Even the infamous, liberal, Ninja loans (No Income, No Job or Assets). While these unqualified borrowers were enjoying unrealistically low interest rates, I was paying 22% to 24% interest on the credit cards that I had used to provide me the funds for the mud pump business that has created jobs for more East Texans. It’s funny, because after 25 years of turning almost every dime of extra money back into my businesses to grow them, it has been only in the last two years that I have finally made enough money to be able to put a little away for retirement, and now the value of that has dropped 40% because of the policies you and your ilk have perpetrated on our country.

You see, Mr. Obama, I’m the guy you intend to raise taxes on. I’m the guy who has spent 25 years toiling and sweating, fretting and fighting, stressing and risking, to build a business and get ahead. I’m the guy who has been on the very edge of bankruptcy more than a dozen times over the last 25 years, and all the while creating more and more jobs for East Texans who didn’t want to take a risk, and would not demand from themselves what I have demanded from myself. I’m the guy you characterize as “the Americans who can afford it the most” that you believe should be taxed more to provide income redistribution “to spread the wealth” to those who have never toiled, sweated, fretted, fought, stressed, or risked anything. You want to characterize me as someone who has enjoyed a life of privilege and who needs to pay a higher percentage of my income than those who have bought into your entitlement culture. I resent you, Mr. Obama, as I resent all who want to use class warfare as a tool to advance their political career. What’s worse, each year more Americans buy into your liberal entitlement culture, and turn to the government for their hope of a better life instead of themselves. Liberals are succeeding through more than 40 years of collaborative effort between the predominant liberal media, and liberal indoctrination programs in the public school systems across our land.

What is so terribly sad about this is this. America was made great by people who embraced the one-time American culture of self reliance, self motivation, self determination, self discipline, personal betterment, hard work, risk taking. A culture built around the concept that success was in reach on every able bodied American who would strive for it. Each year that less Americans embrace that culture, we all descend together. We descend down the socialist path that has brought country after country ultimately to bitter and unremarkable states. If you and your liberal comrades in the media and school systems would spend half as much effort cultivating a culture of can-do across America as you do cultivating your entitlement culture, we could see Americans at large embracing the conviction that they can elevate themselves through personal betterment, personal achievement, and self reliance. You see, when people embrace such ideals, they act on them. When people act on such ideals, they succeed. All of America could find herself elevating instead of deteriorating. But that would eliminate the need for liberal politicians, wouldn’t it, Mr. Obama? The country would not need you if the country was convinced that problem solving was best left with individuals instead of the government. You and all your liberal comrades have got a vested interested in creating a dependent class in our country. It is the very business of liberals to create an ever expanding dependence on government. What’s remarkable is that you, who have never produced a job in your life, are going to tax me to take more of my money and give it to people who wouldn’t need my money if they would get off their entitlement mentality asses and apply themselves at work, demand more from themselves, and quit looking to liberal politicians to raise their station in life.

You see, I know because I’ve had them work for me before. Hundreds of them over these 25 years. People who simply will not show up to work on time. People who just will not work 5 days in a week, much less, 6 days. People always looking for a way to put less effort out. People who actually tell me that they would do more if I just would first pay them more. People who take off work to sit in government offices to apply to get free government handouts (gee, I wonder how things would have turned out for them if they had spent that time earning money and pleasing their employer?). You see, all of this comes from your entitlement mentality culture.

Oh, I know you will say I am uncompassionate. Sorry, Mr. Obama, wrong again. You see, I’ve seen what the average percentage of your income has been given to charities over the years of 2000 to 2004 (ignoring the years you started running for office - can you pronounce “politically motivated”), you averaged of less than 1% annually. And your running mate, Joe Biden, averaged less than ¼% of his annual income in charitable contributions over the last 10 years. Like so many liberals, the two of you want to give to the needy, just as long as it is someone else’s money you are giving to them. I won’t say what I have given to charities over the last 25 years, but the percentage is several times more than you or Joe Biden… combined (don’t you just hate google?). Tell me again how you feel my pain.

In short, Mr. Obama, your political philosophies represent everything that is wrong with our country. You represent the culture of government dependence instead of self reliance; Entitlement mentality instead of personal achievement; Penalization of the successful to reward the unmotivated; Political correctness instead of open mindedness and open debate. If you are successful, you may preside over the final transformation of America from being the greatest and most self-reliant culture on earth, to just another country of whiners and wimps, who sit around looking to the government to solve their problems. Like all of western Europe. All countries on the decline. All countries that, because of liberal socialistic mentalities, have a little less to offer mankind every year.

God help us…

Cory Miller
just a ordinary, extraordinary American, the way most Americans used to be.

P.S. Yes, Mr. Obama, I am a real American… meet me at: www.cmillerdrilling.com ; and: www.centerlinemanufacturing.com"

I don’t give a flying fuck about that guys long winded crap about how he bootstrapped his ass up. Good for him.

I won’t get any of what I really want from either candidate, but I’ve decided Obama is better choice, and the lesser of two evils yet again.

It’s not ignorance it’s a difference of opinion.

Man this thread is funny. So much ignorance.

You got that right, Reich wing mouth piece. I’ll be happy to point yours out for you.

People who make more money should “pay their share” and somehow people who work for corporations are tax exempt? People who make more money already pay a higher percentage of their money in taxes than those who make less. If we want everyone to “pay their fair share”, let’s all pay the same percentage, how bout that?

First off under this current admin the upper class don’t pay shit, let alone a “higher percentage” get more than one source of info for yourself!(Cheney gets 2 mil back in taxes Ha!!What a load!!) Second, anyone who paid a seconds worth of attention in high school economics, knows that a flat tax (I’m assuming that’s what you’re going after with your “let’s all pay the same percentage, how bout that?”) will suck all of the wealth upward quicker than the last 8 years has. How about that?

I also find it funny that there is this belief that increasing taxes of all the companies that employ the middle class, somehow benefits the middle class. You think Johny Exxon Executive just says “well the government raised my taxes 10%, I guess I’ll just take a pay cut”. Yeah right. Who ultimately pays? The middle class employee and the middle class consumer.

Are you really this dense? Think of it as a maximum wage until the rest of Middle America catches up. Sure, Jonny Exxon will raise his price but he will have to pay it back out again at the end of the year… Jesus, the right always thinks they’re… well… right. Poor bastards!

If you want to really think about why a small business owner would vote republican, it goes much deeper than not wanting to pay taxes.

I’d say it was much shallower than that, most people pick political parties like they pick sports teams, It doesn’t matter that they are voting against their interests just so long as “my team” wins. Again, Pathetic

"Mr. Obama,

Given the uproar about the simple question asked you by Joe the plumber, and the persecution that has been heaped on him because he dared to question you, I find myself motivated to say a few things to you myself.

What persecution? This mother fucker now has a publicist, a book deal, has made his way into a country music contract? 54 years old? You’re still relatively young to be this out of touch and too fucking old to be this naive.

While Joe aspires to start a business someday, I already have started not one, but 4 businesses.
So, let’s put aside the fact that “Joe the Plumber” lied about how much money he makes, That he, in fact, lied about being a plumber, He isn’t actually thinking about buying that business, and if he were in a position to buy that business, the business doesn’t even come close to making 250 G’s and if that’s not enough, let’s consider he did buy the business, it would fold because he DOESN’T pay his taxes. So let’s forget about this stand up guy, make him a martyr and focus on your success? Will Do, chief!

But first, let me introduce myself. You can call me “Cory the well driller”. I am a 54 year old high school graduate. I didn’t go to college like you, I was too ready to go “conquer the world” when I finished high school. 25 years ago at age 29, I started my own water well drilling business at a time when the economy here in East Texas was in a tailspin from the crash of the early 80’s oil boom. I didn’t get any help from the government, nor did I look for any.

Well, first old geezer, most of the people in DC went to college, so you, trying to make Obama be a stand out because he did, are stupid. Second, who cares where you got help? Not everyone has the resources you did. The fact remains you got help! To lord that you didn’t get help from the government over people is stupid. Not everyone comes from Privilege… Yes you are privileged!!

I borrowed what I could from my sister, my uncle, and even the pawn shop and managed to scrape together a homemade drill rig and a few tools to do my first job.

…Nice, you borrowed from family, What if family doesn’t have money to spare? Then what? Next, you sacrificed your stuff? … As I said earlier, it’s nice to be in a spot of privilege… A Pawn shop is only good if you have something they want and in order to have something they want you had to have something valuable… What if you got nothing valuable?

My businesses did not start as a result of privilege.

I’m pretty sure; I just established that it did.

They are the result of my personal drive, personal ambition, self discipline, self reliance, and a determination to treat my customers fairly.

Man, if that isn’t a big slap in the face and a big fuck you to your sis, your uncle, and the fuckin’ pawn shop guy…! Just like a Republican, step on and use whoever you can, then forget about them and boast your sacrifices and hard work! On behalf of your sister your uncle and the pawn shop guy you are an Asshole!

From the very start my business provided one other (than myself) East Texan a full time job. I couldn’t afford a backhoe the first few years (something every well drilling business had), so I and my helper had to dig the mud pits that are necessary for each and every job with hand shovels. I had to use my 10 year old, 1/2 ton pickup truck for my water tank truck (normally a job for at least a 2 ton truck).

And?? So what? My buddy’s mom has worked 25 years a fast-food manager, People don’t say thank you, they demean you, give you shit all day, you got shitty workers, you got shitty customers, long back breaking on your feet hours. You’re telling me this lady didn’t bust her ass? Because by your statements you are saying hard work will always have you winning in the end… not so!

A year and a half after I started the business, I scraped together a 20% down payment to get a modest bank loan and bought a (28 year) old, worn out, slightly bigger drilling rig to allow me to drill the deeper water wells in my area.

Must be nice to get a loan! Must’ve been nice to have people call on your business enough so you could save up 20 percent! (Would love to know what this guy calls “modest”)

I spent the next few years drilling wells with the rig while simultaneously rebuilding it between jobs. Through these years I never knew from one month to the next if I would have any work or be able to pay the bills. I got behind on my income taxes one year, and spent the next two years paying that back (with penalty and interest) while keeping up with ongoing taxes. I got behind on my water well supply bill 2 different years (way behind the second time… $80,000.00), and spent over a year paying it back (each time) while continuing to pay for ongoing supplies C.O.D… Of course, the personal stress endured through these experiences and years is hard to measure. I do have a stent in my heart now to memorialize it all.

OOOOh I get it, you are rationalizing how you get too keep all of that money even though giving some back would still have you crazy rich! in short, you really are an asshole, you think you are the only hard worker and that somehow your hard work is worth more than any one else’s?? If I was around you, I’d punch you right square in your memorialized heart!

I spent the next 10 years developing the reputation for being the most competent and most honest water well driller in East Texas. 2 years along the way, I hired another full time employee for the drilling business so that we could provide full time water well pump service as well as the well drilling. Also, 3 years along the path, I bought a water well screen service machine from a friend, starting business # 2. 5 years later I made a business loan for $100,000.00 to build a new, higher production, computer controlled screen service machine. I had designed the machine myself, and it didn’t work out for 3 years so I had to make the loan payments without the benefit of any added income from the new machine. No government program was there to help me with the payments, or to help me sleep at night as I lay awake wondering how I would solve my machine problems or pay my bills.

Again, so fucking what? Everybody has the same kinds of stress, just because you think your stress has a higher price tag is bullshit!

Finally, after 3 years, I got the screen machine working properly, and that provided another full time job for an East Texan in the screen service business.

Good for you, I see how your blowing your own horn still.

2 years after that, I made another business loan, this time for $250,000.00, to buy another used drilling rig and all the support equipment needed to run another, larger, drill rig. This provided another 2 full time jobs for East Texans. Again, I spent a couple of years not knowing if I had made a smart move, or a move that would bankrupt me.

Must be nice to be in a position to take those kinds of risks! Oh yeah you would never admit to that! This is a story about boot straps and pulling!

For the third time in 13 years, I had placed everything I owned on the line, risking everything, in order to build a business.

Many people never have enough to lay everything down on the line even once their whole lives, let alone 3 times. Quit yer bitching/bragging!

A couple of years into this, I came up with a bright idea for a new kind of mud pump, a fundamentally necessary pump used on water well drill rigs. I spent my entire life savings to date (just $30,000.00), building a prototype of the pump and took it to the national water well convention to show it off. Customers immediately started coming out of the woodworks to buy the pumps, but there was a problem. I had depleted my assets making the prototype, and nobody would make me a business loan to start production of the new pumps. With several deposits for pump orders in hand, and nowhere to go, I finally started applying for as many credit card as I could find and took cash withdrawals on these cards to the tune of over $150,000.00 (including modest loans from my dear sister and brother), to get this 3rd business going.

2 businesses and only saved 30 g’s? You are a poor businessman! Funny, you would be as bad as the people you are complaining about had you defaulted on those credit cards!! Lucky for you it worked out, and it is luck, because I know plenty of people who bust their ass and don’t nearly have 30 g’s in the bank. Mostly because they work for a shitty company (cause that’s the only place to work and starting their own business is not an option because they have no collateral or don’t have little sister to borrow from)that pays them just enough money for them to get back to work the next day.

Yes, once again, I had everything hanging over the line in an effort to start another business. I had never manufactured anything, and I had to design and bring into production a complex hydraulic machine from an untested prototype to a reliable production model (in six months). How many nights I lay awake wondering if I had just made the paramount mistake of my life I cannot tell you, but there were plenty.

So what?? Nice you were in a position to take that risk!

[Self aggrandizing has been snipped] No government programs were there to help me, Mr. Obama, but that’s ok, I didn’t expect any, nor did I want any. I was too busy fighting to make success happen to sit around waiting for the government to help me.

Oh brave warrior you are an inspiration to us all. No one is “sitting around waiting for government to help us” We want the government to set the playing field fair again. And in the mean time we are struggling through wondering how many more of us are going to lose our houses,( not because we bought bigger houses than we can afford (although some did)but because we are losing our jobs because the East Texas water well company has moved the company south for the cheaper labor!) how we are going to pay the bills and wondering if we will have a job in the morning. is this because we don’t work hard? I say we do work hard and fuck you if you think your brand of “hard work” is harder than anyone else’s!

Now, after manufacturing the mud pumps for 7 years, my combined businesses employ 32 full time employees, and distribute $5,000,000.00 annually through the local economy. Now, just 4 months ago I borrowed $1,254,000.00, purchasing computer controlled machining equipment to start my 4th business, a production machine shop. The machine shop will serve the mud pump company so that we can better manufacture our pumps that are being shipped worldwide. Of course, the machine shop will also do work for outside companies as well. This has already produced 2 more full time jobs, and 2 more should develop out of it in the next few months. This should work out, but if it doesn’t it will be because you, and the other professional politicians like yourself, will have destroyed our countrys’ (and the world) economy with your meddling with mortgage loan programs through your liberal manipulation and intimidation of loaning institutions to make sure that unqualified borrowers could get mortgages.

Already got your excuse planned out for your failure! So, your business will flop because people have money to afford your product? That doesn’t make sense business man! You sound like the people you’re railing against! Maybe you were too busy working, which is admirable, BUT Conservatives are for Deregulation and deregulation has put this country in the position it is in. According to you, if one fails it is their own fault or is that just for other people? I know Repubs play by two different standards!

You see, at the very time when I couldn’t get a business loan to get my mud pumps into production, you were working with Acorn and the Community Reinvestment Act programs to make sure that unqualified borrowers could buy homes with no down payment, and even no credit or worse yet, bad credit. Even the infamous, liberal, Ninja loans (No Income, No Job or Assets). While these unqualified borrowers were enjoying unrealistically low interest rates, I was paying 22% to 24% interest on the credit cards that I had used to provide me the funds for the mud pump business that has created jobs for more East Texans. It’s funny, because after 25 years of turning almost every dime of extra money back into my businesses to grow them, it has been only in the last two years that I have finally made enough money to be able to put a little away for retirement, and now the value of that has dropped 40% because of the policies you and your ilk have perpetrated on our country.

Need I remind you That the last 8 years has been dominated by the repubs? no checks, no balances. All four checks have been right winged! judicial: right wing, congress: right wing, executive: right wing, the media (yes the media is a check on goverment rather it’s supposed to be) right wing. Right now your thinking to yourself “It’s the ‘liberal’ media” but sir it is not the only reason you have that phrase is because of the media. If CNN is supposed to be the “liberal” news channel then the US is in bad shape, CNN isn’t even accidentally liberal

You see, Mr. Obama, I’m the guy you intend to raise taxes on. I’m the guy who has spent 25 years toiling and sweating, fretting and fighting, stressing and risking, to build a business and get ahead.

Congratulations!! You are wealthy! Not everyone’s hard work makes them wealthy! quit your fuckin’ bitchin!! You’ve been sold this bill of goods that everyone that is wealthy has worked hard for it! that is not true! you have attained your wealth by hard work guess what. after your taxed, you will still be wealthy. I work pretty fuckin hard. Guess what. after i am taxed i will still not be wealthy! are we different? we both have wroked hard.

I’m the guy who has been on the very edge of bankruptcy more than a dozen times over the last 25 years,

You think your alone on this? you think you are the only one has faced bankruptcy? well I’ve got news for you, pity party, some people who are not wealthy, actually do file bankruptcy and hard work doesn’t have shit to do with it!!

and all the while creating more and more jobs for East Texans who didn’t want to take a risk, and would not demand from themselves what I have demanded from myself.

Funny! Didn’t want to take the risk, or couldn’t take the risk? You selfish ass!! You don’t know how good you’ve had it and you want to smack down anyone else that didn’t/doesn’t do it your way!

I’m the guy you characterize as “the Americans who can afford it the most” that you believe should be taxed more to provide income redistribution “to spread the wealth” to those who have never toiled, sweated, fretted, fought, stressed, or risked anything.

Asshole! How dare you tell me I don’t work hard? How dare you tell anyone else that they don’t work hard!! You are one DUMB SON OF A BITCH perhaps you should have gone to college that way you wouldn’t be so easily taken advantage of by the right wing! You are under the assumption that only hard work get you wealth and that is not true! I work really hard and yet I am not wealthy! You don’t know everyone’s story you are too busy thinking about yourself, thinking that your selfishness is taking care of the community! YOU ARE NOT.

You want to characterize me as someone who has enjoyed a life of privilege and who needs to pay a higher percentage of my income than those who have bought into your entitlement culture.

It is you sir, who has the entitlement culture. You have had options of privilege which is more than many people can say! I bet you are fat!

I resent you, Mr. Obama, as I resent all who want to use class warfare as a tool to advance their political career.

Class warfare is exactly what this is BUT it is not Obama who has waged this war! GET A CLUE

What’s worse, each year more Americans buy into your liberal entitlement culture, and turn to the government for their hope of a better life instead of themselves.

It’s called opportunity and along with the money the upper class has stolen most if it!

Liberals are succeeding through more than 40 years of collaborative effort between the predominant liberal media, and liberal indoctrination programs in the public school systems across our land.

You have no idea what you are talking about! You balk at education as if it were some albatross but you don’t even have the common sense to know that when all of the Wealth is sucked Upwards even YOU lose your wealth to the more wealthy! You started out talking about how you didn’t go to college if you want to pit white and blue collar against each other as you have attempted, let me just get really base and say WHY should anyone give a shit about what a highs school educated (which has served you well by the way I noticed you can write damn those liberal teachers for teaching you more than one skill!) blue collar grunt thinks? Especially since it took you 11 years to even to start to “conquer the world” that was enough time to get a PHD. You obviously know nothing of any intellectual importance! All you know is “GIMMIE it’s mine! “ without so much as a hat tip to the people around you that were privileged enough to give you some of their privilege! You sorry son of a bitch!

What is so terribly sad about this is this. America was made great by people who embraced the one-time American culture of self reliance, self motivation, self determination, self discipline, personal betterment, hard work, risk taking.

Oh you mean like Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson? The guy that came up with the idea for public school and the Fire Department? Jefferson, the guy that owned slaves? Yeah he should’ve been wealthy he worked hard getting others to do his work for him! You seem to be under the impression that everyone would be better if everyone fended for themselves…(But even you didn’t fend for yourself) I know you didn’t pay for it but I’m gonna give you some knowledge anyway, the US was never like that and the most NOTED period of time when things were like that was the DARK ages, Now I know You’re probably allergic to education but get some cough medicine and enroll at a community college class and learn a little something about the world around you! Stop watching TV for your information and get a few credible sources other than Fox and CNN.

A culture built around the concept that success was in reach on every able bodied American who would strive for it. Each year that less Americans embrace that culture, we all descend together. We descend down the socialist path that has brought country after country ultimately to bitter and unremarkable states.

First off that is NOT socialism! Second off for a reason for this effect look up Emile Durkheim and his work on anomie. Although, you may not like him, he is and educated fellow. But being the mook that you are I doubt you will and if you do look it up, I doubt you will understand it! So let me break it down for you. When the goals and achievements of society become blocked or retarded you start to see this kind of effect on the populace. So you see, so if you get your crybaby bullshit wish, you are fostering this national problem! I find it funny that someone with so much as you, you still bitch about those less fortunate than you.

If you and your liberal comrades in the media and school systems would spend half as much effort cultivating a culture of can-do across America as you do cultivating your entitlement culture, we could see Americans at large embracing the conviction that they can elevate themselves through personal betterment, personal achievement, and self reliance.

How can this be done when all avenues are shut down? When people like you bitch about supporting schools ‘cause they don’t want to pay their taxes. You can’t have it both ways you dipshit!

You see, when people embrace such ideals, they act on them. When people act on such ideals, they succeed.

This is not true. Come out your bubble and have a look at the real world.

All of America could find herself elevating instead of deteriorating. But that would eliminate the need for liberal politicians, wouldn’t it, Mr. Obama?

America is deteriorating because of uneducated mooks like you! You revel in the fact that you have a high school diploma. How can you even pretend to understand the complexities of society when you so clearly embrace ignorance? You got lucky, that is it, so stop rubbing others faces in it! If you were a little bit smarter repubs would be out a job wouldn’t they? Is it any wonder the majority of republicans are the wealthy and the uneducated? You happen to be both! A double whammy guy, you should be proud of yourself you are rich and dumb! Well on the happy side a fool and his money are soon parted! You will be broke soon enough, but not because of “the evil liberal” government because of your own ignorance.

The country would not need you if the country was convinced that problem solving was best left with individuals instead of the government.

Here’s one you missed, dumbshit! The government IS individuals! Remember? We the People? Ring anyt bells blue collar boy?

You and all your liberal comrades have got a vested interested in creating a dependent class in our country.

Pay attention! I don’t know if you’ve noticed (probably not because you only care about yourself) but the Middle class is on the endangered species list! Once they go we are a 3rd world country! And you can be sure your wealth will be gone in the blink of any eye if that happens. So give a little more now and stay wealthy or let us go to 3rd world status and join all of us “non hard workers” down here at the bottom! You really have no idea do you?

It is the very business of liberals to create an ever expanding dependence on government.

Are you nuts? Like that noted liberal George W who expanded the government more than ANY liberal and has spent WAY more $ than any liberal?? Oh yeah that’s the conservative guy you like!

What’s remarkable is that you, who have never produced a job in your life, are going to tax me to take more of my money and give it to people who wouldn’t need my money if they would get off their entitlement mentality asses and apply themselves at work, demand more from themselves, and quit looking to liberal politicians to raise their station in life.

You really don’t know what you’re talking about. Look into these things before you run your mouth!

You see, I know because I’ve had them work for me before. Hundreds of them over these 25 years. People who simply will not show up to work on time. People who just will not work 5 days in a week, much less, 6 days. People always looking for a way to put less effort out. People who actually tell me that they would do more if I just would first pay them more. People who take off work to sit in government offices to apply to get free government handouts (gee, I wonder how things would have turned out for them if they had spent that time earning money and pleasing their employer?). You see, all of this comes from your entitlement mentality culture.

You don’t know shit! You are dumb and have admitted so in the many misstatements you have made and flat out bad ideas. What you do know is, is the work habits of Texans. So Maybe this is just representative of that noted conservative state of Texas! I could see you making this point if you were in California, but you’re not, you’re throwing your own state under the bus. This is supposed to be a hard workin’ conservative state isn’t it? Have I mentioned ASSHOLE yet?

Oh, I know you will say I am uncompassionate. Sorry, Mr. Obama, wrong again. You see, I’ve seen what the average percentage of your income has been given to charities over the years of 2000 to 2004 (ignoring the years you started running for office - can you pronounce “politically motivated”), you averaged of less than 1% annually. And your running mate, Joe Biden, averaged less than ¼% of his annual income in charitable contributions over the last 10 years. Like so many liberals, the two of you want to give to the needy, just as long as it is someone else’s money you are giving to them. I won’t say what I have given to charities over the last 25 years, but the percentage is several times more than you or Joe Biden… combined (don’t you just hate google?). Tell me again how you feel my pain.

I don’t believe you to give to charity. Every word you have written is anti charity. After all, charity is for lazy people! Besides with the amount of bragging you’ve done on yourself, if you had donated you would have exact #’s telling us what a good boy you are. I would even be willing to bet that you lied about charity on your taxes to get the tax breaks!

In short, Mr. Obama, your political philosophies represent everything that is wrong with our country.

It’s not him, it’s you. Just like many before you, You have climbed the ladder and now want to kick the rungs out after you have climbed up. That is not fair! You are greedy fuck!

You represent the culture of government dependence instead of self reliance; Entitlement mentality instead of personal achievement; Penalization of the successful to reward the unmotivated; Political correctness instead of open mindedness and open debate.

you are severely misguided. If that’s the case then you represent the culture that tilts the playing field so severely that the middle class will fall off the field I ask you which is worse. I remind you the culture we are in right now is the result of 6/8 years of NO LIBERAL influence! It’s like accusing me of fucking your wife when I wasn’t even the state let alone your home!

If you are successful, you may preside over the final transformation of America from being the greatest and most self-reliant culture on earth, to just another country of whiners and wimps, who sit around looking to the government to solve their problems.

When you say “self reliant” you are not using the term in the proper context… but what to expect from the uneducated? Self reliant has always been from other countries even though we borrow trillions… You think we successfully won independence because we were a bunch of individuals? Man, did you sleep through high school history too? TO think that someone like you has a lot of money is his bank account is disturbing the dumb and impressionable should not have that kind of income!

Like all of western Europe. All countries on the decline. All countries that, because of liberal socialistic mentalities, have a little less to offer mankind every year.

No, (I don’t think you know what socialistic is) if western Europe is in decline it is because of our failed deregulation policies, it’s the massive exploitation of cheap labor while putting the working man out to dry! We do have a global economy and when a country fucks up horribly as George W has done with the US, it effects all of us! Please learn something before you go around shooting your mouth off again!

God help us… Cory Miller

You mean God help you!

just a ordinary, extraordinary American, the way most Americans used to be.

You wish! anyone can feel free to dsend this on to this dipshit!
Late,
grmpysmrf

You wish! anyone can feel free to dsend this on to this dipshit!
Late,
grmpysmrf

>>>>You know I started a long reply to all your venomous misdirected nonsense but it really just isn’t worth my time. I realize you live on this board full time, and this is your place to “shine” so congrats and you can have it. I knew better than to try to have intelligent political discussion here.

Don’t listen to a person who won’t admit that richer people pay more taxes. It is just a fact. Everyone pays but they pay more. FAR MORE.

Oh, also , you called me a “reich-wing” mouthpiece which I will respond to. I assume you are calling me right-wing but your lack of knowledge about “reichs” or the political beliefs of the nazi party make your analogy pretty stupid.

In the spirit of full disclosure: I have not ever voted Republican. I am not rich. I am not a bible thumper. I am educated, though. Based on the intellect you displayed here, I’m going to have to say, quite a bit more educated than you.

I just want my private life and my business to operate with as little government interference as possible. You know, the government? That super-productive model of efficiency?

Now get back to your propaganda and uninformed pseudospew, hippy.

I’m happy that your friend is doing well. but who are his customers and what kind of service does he provide?

For example, if he’s selling Bentley’s…he’ll do just fine under a McCain ecomony. If he’s selling Chevy’s, not so good. All the Chevy buyers are tapped out right now. And it would remain that way under McCain.

Everyone needs customers, and if consumers have no $$ to spend…everyone suffers.

my head hurts from all of this stupidity.
the guy with the multiple businesses didn’t get government help? are those bank loans not tied to the system?
thing one and his “friend” thing two are douchebags.
prior to the current bank bailouts, and maybe even now, you as a small business owner couldn’t get a loan to save your life.i know. i tried.

and king smurf, “yer throne’s a-ready.” smurf’s a teacher for fuck’s sake. if HE doesn’t understand the meaning of hard work and feeding your family, who does.
(here are your royal robes, btw–OH, and i asked afra recently, after discovering one day that i’d been “elevated” to veteran status here–“can you change that title to ’ royalty’”?
i don’t think he’s buying it. sad, but true.)

“And yes douchebags out there, I’m Special Ed, and I approve this message.”