What are your thoughts on....

REINCARNATION?

Recently me and a buddy of mine have been fueding. My friend being a christian nut totally dismisses it … not surprising right. (I kinda wanna lash out and call her a narrow minded christian) but its not in me to judge other people… cough SIKEEE… back on topic.

Me on the other hand do believe in it. There have been so many testimonies: Past Life recalls, Hypnotherapy. From what I know the hindu and buddist believe in it. They believe the soul reincarnates to rid itself of ignorance and only when that goal is fully accomplished does the soul stop reincarnating.

Just wondering what you prongers think on the subject.

I am undecided, I can see possibility for and against it though at my core it probably seems true, though I don’t know what part of “me” it is that is reincarnated because me today is so different than me five years ago. I suppose reincarnation presupposes some degree of essential self that goes beyond the constantly evolving details of self. The concept of the “supersoul” has seemed true to me for a very long time.

On another note, you might let your friend know that reincarnation has some degree of biblical support in the identity of John the Baptist being referred to as being a new form of Elijah. There are a few other verses. Of course like all evidence of that sort those that believe in reincarnation red the quotes that way and those that don’t read them another way. Quoting bible rarely convinces anyone of anything, its an odd book that way.

Finally, I did some weird occult based past life regression stuff. Nothing there that swayed me either way, but it was a worthwhile experience in many other ways.

good question.

green death made a good point: parts of us can die and be reborn (or never reborn) throughout our life. it’s a continuous cycle. in that sense, we are reincarnating while alive!

as for reincarnation after death, after doing more Buddhist classes recently, I have seen this to be a bit more believable (in my opinion) . why? well, in Christianity, which I also know alot about, you basically die and if you are forgiven by God, or ask for forgivness, into heaven you go. if not, to hell with you!

but in terms of reincarnation, as Xtra said,you can’t reach heaven (nirvana) without living a full complete spiritual life. so each time you are born, you have the opportunity to live a better life than the previous one…or a worse life than the previous one. it lies within you. anyway, I feel that this makes more sense: until you’ve lived a complete spiritual life, you aren’t allowed into heaven as opposed to being allowed into heaven even if you were a theif etc.

I’ve also had dreams, more so when I was younger, of past lives…the 60’s, 70’s. I even remember having a vivid dream of living in the 1800’s…but I was 7 or so when I had that dream. how can I have so much knowledge of that era then?

Unfortunately, I was reincarnated as someone who doesn’t believe in reincarnation

We are worm food, until proven otherwise.

1002

I also don’t believe in reincarnation. Everything that made you who you were is rotting in the ground or burned to a powder in a crematorium. People want to talk about the soul and how its the life force and when you die the soul lives on… so what? If my tv remote breaks before the batteries wear out does that mean if I take those tv remote batteries and put them in my alarm clock that my alarm clock is going to have some of the same tendencies that my remote did cause those batteries powered a remote? I think not.

The reason people think that they’ve had passed lives is because whatever person you can make up is somebody. You check the records for a brown haired freckle faced girl with green eyes and one b cup titty and one d cup titty and your gonna find her! There have been that many people on the planet that its going to associate with someone!

Good topic though!
Late,
grmpysmrf

REINCARNATION?

Recently me and a buddy of mine have been fueding. My friend being a christian nut totally dismisses it … not surprising right. (I kinda wanna lash out and call her a narrow minded christian) but its not in me to judge other people… cough SIKEEE… back on topic.

Me on the other hand do believe in it. There have been so many testimonies: Past Life recalls, Hypnotherapy. From what I know the hindu and buddist believe in it. They believe the soul reincarnates to rid itself of ignorance and only when that goal is fully accomplished does the soul stop reincarnating.

Just wondering what you prongers think on the subject.

Why do you wanna lash out and call your Christian friend “narrow-minded” just because s/he doesn’t believe in re-incarnation?

You both have chosen to believe a certain spiritual faith which is just that, FAITH.

Calling someone “narrow minded” just because they don’t agree with you is retarded.

I’m not going to argue religion here, but I do find that while there are a fair amount of so-called Christians who misinterpret or unfairly use the Bible to mistreat others or cause hurt, there are also a great amount of people who are prone to quick knee-jerk reaction and start labelling with terms like “narrow-minded”, “hipocrite”, etc. as soon as they find out someone is Christian.

Well for one she totally shuts me down, shes so dependent on the good book that she immediately dismesses anything i say (thats a pretty narrow way of thinking?). Also threw the classic christian at me “I’m worried about your eternal salvation”… and for what? cause I believe in reincarnation.

But with the 6 billion people living on this planet I think a good chunk of us are new souls, here to mature, and what better place right? I mean there werent 6 billion people 2000 years ago… and with the increase in population I think new souls and reincarnation has a lot to do with it. I mean, hundreds of years from now I believe humanity will be a lot less ignorant and will respect and understand nature and ourselves. Maybe reincarnation has something to do with it.

Well for one she totally shuts me down, shes so dependent on the good book that she immediately dismesses anything i say (thats a pretty narrow way of thinking?).

trying to prove Jesus/God with the Bible is like trying to prove superman with a comic book!

But with the 6 billion people living on this planet I think a good chunk of us are new souls, here to mature, and what better place right?

Under reincarnation you’d figure the population would maintain at a constant #

I mean there werent 6 billion people 2000 years ago… and with the increase in population I think new souls and reincarnation has a lot to do with it.

I think it has more to do with religious right and other conservatives groups cutting off access to birth control to third world countries.

I mean, hundreds of years from now I believe humanity will be a lot less ignorant and will respect and understand nature and ourselves.

that’s just cultural evolution.

Maybe reincarnation has something to do with it.

well if this were the Vegas thread I wouldn’t put my money on it!
Late,
grmpysmrf

I’m big-time into what is being referred to as the “Skeptical Movement” which is not a great name as people tend to be confused as to what skepticism really is. One of the best explanations I’ve seen:

"Some people believe that skepticism is the rejection of new ideas, or worse, they confuse “skeptic” with “cynic” and think that skeptics are a bunch of grumpy curmudgeons unwilling to accept any claim that challenges the status quo. This is wrong. Skepticism is a provisional approach to claims. It is the application of reason to any and all ideas — no sacred cows allowed. In other words, skepticism is a method, not a position. Ideally, skeptics do not go into an investigation closed to the possibility that a phenomenon might be real or that a claim might be true. When we say we are “skeptical,” we mean that we must see compelling evidence before we believe. "

Basically, it’s like applying the scientific method in day to day life.

So, for me, any claims such as reincarnation that we can not directly observe and test is necessarily a waste of time. This is what James Randi refers to as “woo”, and skeptics do their best to combat those beliefs and practices that there is no evidence to support as they ultimately are a drain on the time, efforts, and resources of mankind. Megachurches suck up a shit-ton of money (just think of the A/C bills alone on those huge buildings that typically are in use just one day a week); so-called “alternative medicine” (accupuncture, homeopathy, reiki or therapeutic touch, chiropractic practices who claim that they are treating anything instead of just cracking your back, etc.) sucker people out of money and divert people from effective treatment (and sometimes actually can harm the patients); creationism distracts from the actual science education our children should be getting so they don’t continue to fall behind the rest of the world; ghost hunters and bigfoot/chupacabra documentaries just generally suck up a lot of brain cells in people who are too lazy to devote their mental power to things that actually matter and make a difference in this world.

To us, pondering any possible form of an afterlife that by definition is unknowable is a waste of time, and a bit of an insult to the universe. It is so vast and complex and amazing, and so richly detailed, that its specialness dwarfs any “supernatural” phenomena that a human mind can dream up. Similarly, claims like “aliens built the pyramids” is equally a slap to the face of mankind- humans are a remarkable animal and that is a milestone acheivement of our DNA that everyone should take pride in- why cheapen it, you know?

I’m an atheist, like 99% of skeptics. Humanist is great word too, as whenever I’ve hit hard patches in life, people were what got me through and people are what matter in my life. Reincarnation, or any other form of an afterlife, while they are nice ideas, and definitely appealing (dying sucks, after all), thinking about them at best distracts from the main issue, which is doing the most with the life you actually have. At worst, tolerance for such unscientific nonsense is actually harmful to human society, such as when politicians are elected who don’t care about acting in the interest of the future of humanity- people who believe that an end time is coming and that their reward comes after this life have no incentive to take care of and shepherd our resources or care for the wellbeing of others.

I was actually raised to believe in reincarnation. My mother is a wiccan high priestess (so is my sister fror that matter). I always felt like her religion was more peaceful and in tune with nature and the universe than the oppressive christian majority around us, but I never fully bought into it myself. As I grew older, the thousand and thousands of dollars she has spent on witchy books, crystals, feathers, herbs, etc. seems more and more wasteful, and when I see her bottles and bottles of herbal and homeopathic “remedies” that may or may not actually do anything and may or may not be actually harmful (especially as they are taken without the supervision of any sort of medical professional), I get downright scared. But I see the joy it gives her and her friends and the community they have, and you don’t want to trample on that unnecessarily when she has always been your biggest supporter. It’s a fine and frustrating line to walk. I guess I’ll just say that Reincarnation certainly has it’s appeal, and I wish I could believe in it but I just can’t. In my opinion, it’s one of the more harmless unreasonable beliefs you can have, so if you want to believe in it that’s fine, just don’t try to use reincarnation in a debate on public policy and we’ll be fine; and if someone tries to sell you enlightenment, don’t give them your money- I promise you they won’t deliver.

Sorry for the novel.

I totally had something legit to throw into the discussion, but…

a brown haired freckle faced girl with green eyes and one b cup titty and one d cup titty

… Now I’m on a quest.

I totally had something legit to throw into the discussion, but…

[reply]a brown haired freckle faced girl with green eyes and one b cup titty and one d cup titty

… Now I’m on a quest.[/reply]
Lol!
Late,
grmpysmrf

I’m one of those folk who doesn’t know what to think with regards to what’s out there afterwards.

When people do talk about reincarnation I always remember the documentary about the Scottish child who talked about his former life in dramatic detail. Part 1 of the doco is below. The other few parts are there to be found too if you want to watch them. Pretty spooky and interesting stuff if you watch the whole thing…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoSrzpLoODo

Beethoven, Elvis, James Dean, Rembrandt, Albert Einstein, Jim Morrison, Ghandi . . . they all got reincarnated as the same man . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kh23jA8Y1g

[reply]Beethoven, Elvis, James Dean, Rembrandt, Albert Einstein, Jim Morrison, Ghandi . . . they all got reincarnated as the same man . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kh23jA8Y1g

I hate that band and I hate you for always bringing them up.[/reply]

I didn’t click the link, but I’m assuming it’s that tasty slice of man, ville Vallo.

[laugh]

[reply][reply]Beethoven, Elvis, James Dean, Rembrandt, Albert Einstein, Jim Morrison, Ghandi . . . they all got reincarnated as the same man . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kh23jA8Y1g

I hate that band and I hate you for always bringing them up.[/reply]

I didn’t click the link, but I’m assuming it’s that tasty slice of man, ville Vallo.

[laugh][/reply]

I like you’re thinking. But, nah, the dimensions wouldn’t work. It’s a lot of people to fit into one man. Guess again.

NEVER listened to/saw the guy until now.

[laugh]

Religion and spirituality aside, there is, to some degree, scientific FACT of re-incarnation. Well, maybe reincarnation is not the best term. Perhaps reconstruction or something.

Matter is neither created nor destroyed. This is one of the “laws” of science. The molecules and atoms and such of the universe and our world that existed a million years ago are the same that exist today. Trees get cut down, turned into houses, smashed with wrecking balls, chopped up for firewood, the ashes are spread, the char turns to coal a thousand years later, and if you’re lucky, the coal turns into a diamond another million years later.

We have molecules in us which belonged to millions or perhaps billions of people before us. So, pushing that idea forward, if we believe that a person’s physical makeup contains also some special unique properties of spiritual or metaphysical dimension, or that such individual’s possess “souls” then it could be logical to think that personality or identity at such a level may be transmitted from one form to another.

In this manner, I’d say that perhaps the Krishna type versions of reincarnation (that you can come back as any living being – plant, animal, etc.) may make a bit of sense.

There have been cases of people receiving donor organs (heart, kidney, whatever) from individuals and then inexplicably feeling the traits or personality details of such person. For instance, a guy might suddenly feel a passion for fishing, or a love for anchovy pizza or something, taking some quirks of the donor.

When I die and donate my organs, some lucky human being is going to have an urge to come to prongs and give out stink about how crap Al went (and keep talking about JKB even though he’s not as good as he used to be)

You’re on to something there Gunnar. Carl Sagan’s “We are all star stuff” quote comes to mind. We’re full of molecules from the hearts of exploding stars. That in itself is all the majestic beauty I require, in the face of that the idea of a “soul” seems a puny insignificant thing. Besides, everyone knows people are reincarnated Thetans anyway.

Makes just as much sense, really. Hell, I used to have a pet theory that there is only one soul that gets reincarnated over and over again as everyone, which is nice and poetic, making one both the murdered and the murderer, all facets of human existence would balance out to a null point.

But really, given the vastness of the universe, what reason do we have to think that there is anything special about the human animal that elevates us over the rest of common matter? Sure, we got really lucky to evolve the intelligence we have, but that just made us realize what we have to lose. It’s all just a coping mechanism to help with our very natural fear of death. As for any anecdotal “evidence” out there, the brain is a very complex structure, and the more we learn about it, the more we learn about the functionality behind some very bizarre phenomena. I encourage everyone to learn more about this type of research, because, again, the scientific truth is really far more more fascinating than the spiritual conjectures.