W frog marched??

Let’s say W and Cheney are found guilty of war crimes. Would they be arrested? Who would do the arresting? How would that conflict with the secret service, assigned to them for the rest of their life, to do their job? After all, they are supposed to protect W. Would the secret service allow W to be arrested? Would the secret service assigned to them do the arresting? Just wondering how this would go down.
What’s kind of humorous to me is that, with places like Spain (Is it?) and Germany(From what I’ve read they already have warrants for Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz) going ahead with prosecutions and perhaps if a few other countries do the same, there may be no country in the world where they can run to, to escape prosecution in the US!!

You know, now that W is out of office and doesn’t open his mouth much anymore (save for Canada, where most wanted him arrested there too!)my personal approval rating of the guy has soared! I still can’t figure out if W is being respectful of Obama or he truly has nothing to say. Based on his public speaking skills, I’m thinking he has nothing to say!
Late,
grmpysmrf

The ones who would arrest him would be probably the FBI or the CIA most likely. That day will never happen though, and there’s not much the secret service can do against federal agents like that, I don’t think.

And he probably doesn’t have much to say because he’s probably laying low after all the torture files started coming out. He might have been the worst president ever. So if you had a rep like that, and are no longer president or in the public eye, what would you do? I’d certainly lay low and keep my mouth shut. Especially with all the stuff coming out now about what they did to the POWs. I don’t think we’re going to be hearing from him for quite some time.

Amazingly though, Cheney hasn’t learned his lesson and continues to dig his own grave. No more power to drain the swamps and build that empire anymore… He just looks like a fool with excuses each time he responds to the accusations, files, and such. That whole administration should just bury themselves and never be seen again.

[reply]Let’s say W and Cheney are found guilty of war crimes. Would they be arrested? Who would do the arresting? How would that conflict with the secret service, assigned to them for the rest of their life, to do their job? After all, they are supposed to protect W. Would the secret service allow W to be arrested? Would the secret service assigned to them do the arresting? Just wondering how this would go down.[/quote]

It’s a good thing you (and people with similar ideals ie Jourgensen) weren’t running things when Hitler was behaving like Hussein all them years ago - the US may never have had a hand in WW2. We’d all be running around Zeig Heiling each other by now.

The US have ousted a leader who was using mustard gas on his OWN CIVILIANS and installed a democratic, religously tolerant government where people now have the right to vote and you want BUSH to be impeached.

If Obama had done this he would go down as the greatest American president in world history.

Why is W a ‘war criminal’ and yet you say absolutely NOTHING about the nutcases in the Middle East and Africa who are butchering THEIR OWN PEOPLE??? It’s always the same with the Left. If a (conservative) government tries to intervene in another country’s affairs (say, when people are being massacred)…then, said government are ‘war mongerers’.

I do believe that (at least here in Australia) people once marched against the war on Hitler - calling the (conservative) government at the time…you guessed it…“war mongerers”.

Anyway, I need not lose any sleep over this. NOBODY from the previous US regime is going to be arrested. It’s just NOT going to happen.

EVER.

Why don’t you save yr ‘arrests’ for the brutality shown to women in Middle Eatern and Asian countries which is outright DISGUSTING. Now that is something you should be angry about.

[reply]Let’s say W and Cheney are found guilty of war crimes. Would they be arrested? Who would do the arresting? How would that conflict with the secret service, assigned to them for the rest of their life, to do their job? After all, they are supposed to protect W. Would the secret service allow W to be arrested? Would the secret service assigned to them do the arresting? Just wondering how this would go down.[/quote]

It’s a good thing you (and people with similar ideals ie Jourgensen) weren’t running things when Hitler was behaving like Hussein all them years ago - the US may never have had a hand in WW2. We’d all be running around Zeig Heiling each other by now.

The US have ousted a leader who was using mustard gas on his OWN CIVILIANS and installed a democratic, religously tolerant government where people now have the right to vote and you want BUSH to be impeached.

If Obama had done this he would go down as the greatest American president in world history.

Why is W a ‘war criminal’ and yet you say absolutely NOTHING about the nutcases in the Middle East and Africa who are butchering THEIR OWN PEOPLE??? It’s always the same with the Left. If a (conservative) government tries to intervene in another country’s affairs (say, when people are being massacred)…then, said government are ‘war mongerers’.

I do believe that (at least here in Australia) people once marched against the war on Hitler - calling the (conservative) government at the time…you guessed it…“war mongerers”.

Anyway, I need not lose any sleep over this. NOBODY from the previous US regime is going to be arrested. It’s just NOT going to happen.

EVER.

Why don’t you save yr ‘arrests’ for the brutality shown to women in Middle Eatern and Asian countries which is outright DISGUSTING. Now that is something you should be angry about.

The U.S. stayed out of WWII (1939-1945) until the bombing of Pearl harbor by the Japanese (7 December 1941). Had the Japanese not bombed Pearl Harbor, events may have unfolded a bit differently.

I was on a train from Brisbane to Bundaberg, Australia and sitting next to an older woman from the Netherlands. We started chatting and she told me that she remembered the exact moment when American soldiers liberated her village from German occupation. She was extremely grateful to Americans for her freedom as well as her life, and stated such.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the people of Afghanistan do not want the Taliban in their country. Nobody wants a nut-case leader unless they side with that leader. Power and money make some people go insane with ego and control. These leaders murder because they can.

I’m thinking the CIA does the arresting as the FBI is domestic and the CIA is international.

The US have ousted a leader who was using mustard gas on his OWN CIVILIANS and installed a democratic, religously tolerant government where people now have the right to vote and you want BUSH to be impeached.

I wouldn’t go so far as to defend any use of chemical warfare but this notion that Saddam gassed his own people is simplistic and a bit disingenuous. The truth is, the Kurdish city where this happened in northern Iraq was caught in the crosshairs of the Iraq/Iran war. It was an Iraqi city that was friendly to Iran. At the time, there was no comdemnation from US, but remember this was in 1988. It’s still unclear to this day who actually dropped the gas, some say Iran, some Iraq…no consolation to the estimated 5000 innocent civilians who died.

Of course, 5000 is no where near the estimated 500,000 innocent Iraqi who have died since the US invaded Iraq. Yet this fact is rarely mentioned in the “liberal media”. [crazy]

As far as ‘liberating Iraq’. Iraq was one of the most progressive Arab countries in the Middle East before the US invasion. Far more free than countries like Saudi Arabia. So the whole “we did it because they needed to be liberated” thing really doesn’t make any sense at all. At least to someone who has their facts straight.

It’s a good thing you (and people with similar ideals ie Jourgensen) weren’t running things when Hitler was behaving like Hussein all them years ago - the US may never have had a hand in WW2. We’d all be running around Zeig Heiling each other by now.

Damn and we were getting along so well too Peligro!

Are you comparing WWII to W’s war??? Poor, poor, misguided Foole, I can’t begin to tell you how wrong you are. Although, Moonie’s tale with the old woman and Pearl Harbor is a good start!

The US have ousted a leader who was using mustard gas on his OWN CIVILIANS and installed a democratic, religously tolerant government where people now have the right to vote and you want BUSH to be impeached.

The Iraqi people don’t want the U.S. there. They have never wanted the U.S. there and as far as the democratic goverment we’ve installed, don’t kid yourself, the vast majority of people there don’t vote
and of those that did, they voted for basically another theocracy! I know Murdoch is Australian but is that all you get in Australia? FOX channels? Think for yourself man, use a little bit of real logic and not be duped by all of these flaws in logic!

If Obama had done this he would go down as the greatest American president in world history.

No way! Obama would’ve caught shit for it too, but he never would’ve did that, so there’s no argument there.Wow, you really believe the “liberal media” slogan don’t ya’? And you were told that the media was liberal by the… … … … media! Absolute nuttery!

Why is W a ‘war criminal’ and yet you say absolutely NOTHING about the nutcases in the Middle East and Africa who are butchering THEIR OWN PEOPLE??? It’s always the same with the Left. If a (conservative) government tries to intervene in another country’s affairs (say, when people are being massacred)…then, said government are ‘war mongerers’.

You have a straw man argument! I call W a war criminal because he is one! You don’t lie your nation into a war and torture the POW’s of said war then walk away jolly! As far as other countries in the Middle East and Darfur (Africa) nobody’s making more noise about helping them than the left here. It’s too bad you can’t see the difference between What W did and WWII and the help being requested in Darfur. I guess that’s another fallacy you are guilty of; Oversimplification. Darfur is asking for our help and Iraq did not We were attacked by German Allies In WWII AL Queda are not Allies of Iraq, still not connection in any way to W’s War!

I do believe that (at least here in Australia) people once marched against the war on Hitler - calling the (conservative) government at the time…you guessed it…“war mongerers”.

Different situation, different circumstances I’d be on your side completely calling those people nut bags! BUT W’s war is NOT WWII. It’s a completely different set of circumstances.

Anyway, I need not lose any sleep over this. NOBODY from the previous US regime is going to be arrested. It’s just NOT going to happen.

EVER.

You’re probably right and that’s god damn shame!

Why don’t you save yr ‘arrests’ for the brutality shown to women in Middle Eatern and Asian countries which is outright DISGUSTING. Now that is something you should be angry about.

It’s called Revolution sweetheart, and if the Iraqi People or any other people living in a repressive regime EVER decide they want to rise up, I’m completely on their side, but they did not and have not decide to rise up.

W showed up and made them stand! Imposing Democracy is not Democracy at all! and still this has nothing to do with W’s Lie to get us over there or his Torturing of POW’s!
The US got attacked but we’re gonna suspend that so we can go ahead and install Democracy over in a country that didn’t ask for it nor that wants it! Makes perfect sense!
You wanna draw parralels to WWII then the US needs to invade Saudi Arabia cause that’s where the 9/11 hijackers were from! But then again that’s like holding The US accountable for the Bullshit that the KKK does!
Late,
grmpysmrf

You still make no mention of Hussein’s crimes. “Iraq did not ask for help”?!?!? Who is going to ask for help over there - at the expense of being butchered? They didn’t have a voice. We gave them one.

Why were Iraquis cheering in the streets when Hussein’s statue was pulled down or when he was FINALLY hung? Why did the Iraqui people risk death attending a democratic electoral ballot? Did they not FINALLY have the chance to vote?? It’s a stand against religious extremism - how can a dirt poor, uneducated nation with a repressive homicidal butcher as a leader (this is a guy who fed an Iraqui soccer team through a meat grinder for LOSING) possibly start a ‘revolution’ and overthrow said ruler? That’s madness.

They could not have accomplished what was accomplished without help from the US.

And do you honestly believe that an imposed democarcy is worse than a brutal dictatorship? I know which one I’d choose to live under.

Do you belive that the most powerful democracy the world has ever seen shouldn’t interfere in another country’s affairs - even when innocent people are being slaughtered and tortured en masse by their own government - because it’s too politically sensitive? Yr beginning to sound like the idiot left wingers over here.

I do agree however with your comments on the torture of POWs on behalf of the US. In that sense, I think SOMEONE has alot of explaining to do. That has undone alot of good work.

People who live in a democracy have a difficult time understanding theocracy and vice versa.

If there was no religion, would there be as much war in the world?

Forget about all this ‘impeaching’ rubbish - religious fanaticism is the biggest threat facing mankind today. Everyone on earth should have religious freedom. No one should be treated the way these fanatics treat their followers (especially the women…who have no voice).

This is something that nobody living in a free society should tolerate. This should be a common goal.

Demand that your government does something about this.

You still make no mention of Hussein’s crimes. “Iraq did not ask for help”?!?!? Who is going to ask for help over there - at the expense of being butchered? They didn’t have a voice. We gave them one.

What about Hussein’s crimes? The US is not the world police. Iraqis need to stand for themselves but they don’t cause they are not there yet as a society.
The same kinda shit was in place with Russia but it fell. Why did Russia fall you say? Glad you asked. Russia fell cause the uneducated dirt poor populace rose up and said “enough of this shit!”
The middle east has not done that yet and are therefore NOT READY to govern themselves! By your logic Hitler would be in power because no Jew would ever stand up and ask for help, at the risk of being butchered by the ss troops.
The iraqis don’t have a voice because they haven’t found theirs yet. When you give someone a voice when they have none, you have tuned them into a ventriliquist’s dummy and you are the ventriliquist. It’s not real.

Why were Iraquis cheering in the streets when Hussein’s statue was pulled down or when he was FINALLY hung?

I’ll answer that but not before I point out that this has nothing to do with 9/11, the SOLE reason the US went to Iraq in the first place. (Which still makes W a Liar and a torturer which means he’s a war criminal) It’s fucked up that sadam was an asshole and believe me if I was responsible for him, like I am W, or he was a threat to my personal/national safety, know damn well that I’m on your side and go after him but NOT to install Democracy (to a society that so clearly cannot handle it.) but to make sure my voice stays intact, BUT both of those scenarios were not in place.

#1 they were probably cheering for the same reason that many would cheer in the streets if W was hanged!
#2 There weren’t that many people cheering(just like there wouldn’t be that many cheering for W’s hanging but you could get tight lense shots and make it look like a whole lot!). As bad as Hussein was, many iraqi’s still see the west as the great satan and worse than a brutal dictator. A misconception I’m sure that is deepened now that we’ve shown up with all of our War toys and killed oodles and oodles of civilians the very people we were supposed to be liberating! who knew it was to liberate them from their bodies?!

Why did the Iraqui people risk death attending a democratic electoral ballot?

because they were TOLD to do so. (Hell of alot of freedom there is there when somebody TELLS you to do something!) Also Many of the voters are directly related to those in that puppet government.

Did they not FINALLY have the chance to vote??

They don’t care about that! Otherwise you would see the people turning out en mass to vote but they’re not!

It’s a stand against religious extremism - how can a dirt poor, uneducated nation with a repressive homicidal butcher as a leader (this is a guy who fed an Iraqui soccer team through a meat grinder for LOSING) possibly start a ‘revolution’ and overthrow said ruler? That’s madness.

Have you not been paying attention over there? IT’S ALL RELIGIOUS EXTREMISM over there!
Next, it was Hussein’s son that beat and imprisoned the soccer team not sadam. Whether Sadam Knew or not is a debatable subject and one that serves merit but it’s not related to W’s war.
Finally Democracy works on the intelligence of it’s populace if the populace over there is uneducated like you say (which I don’t doubt) the “Democracy” installed will never work cause the citizens will not be smart enough to hold onto it.
When the uneducated grow tired of being uneducated they will throw off their shackles of ignorane and rise up. ONE Brutal dictator is no match for 10 smart people. Iraqis just aren’t there yet! They just don’t know. Based on your assessment of Sadam, muscle will always rule over everything and that is simply not true!

They could not have accomplished what was accomplished without help from the US.

And I still say nothing to brag about… You seem conservative enough to know what’s more valuable, that which is given to you (especially when you haven’t asked or wanted) or that which you have earned? Iraqis haven’t earned this because there aren’t enough that want it.

And do you honestly believe that an imposed democarcy is worse than a brutal dictatorship? I know which one I’d choose to live under.

It’s the same thing, you are still left with a populace that can’t take care of itself. So you get a benevolent dictator instead of a butcher, dictator is still dictator. Just don’t lie and call it Democracy!
And of course you would choose imposed democracy (If there is such a thing) because you’re a free citizen and undestand the value of choice and voice. These people do not yet understand those concepts.

Do you belive that the most powerful democracy the world has ever seen shouldn’t interfere in another country’s affairs - even when innocent people are being slaughtered and tortured en masse by their own government - because it’s too politically sensitive? Yr beginning to sound like the idiot left wingers over here.

Politics doesn’t have shit to do with it. If Iraqis wanted democracy there would’ve been a grass roots/underground movement/something/anything, but there wasn’t. I’m all for the US helping out those that ask/need it. for example, helping out Russia when the Iron Curtain fell, All for it. helping Darfur all for it. Helping Iraqis not so much. Iraqis haven’t stood up yet. there will be no democracy for iraq until they understand how to be free but they aren’t going to come to that realization because we tell them to be free . Think about it like a zoo animal caged its whole life in a zoo, you give it6 “freedom” it will die because it doesn’t know how to survive in freedom, and that in a nutshell is Iraqi democracy (obviously not a perfect analogy cause caged animals don’t respond/evolve like humans, but close enough)

I do agree however with your comments on the torture of POWs on behalf of the US. In that sense, I think SOMEONE has alot of explaining to do. That has undone alot of good work.

well at least it’s not bitterly opposite debate![:P]
Late,
grmpysmrf

Demand that your government does something about this.

I’m a little better with this idea as long as it’s not JUST the U.S. If every free country(capitalist as well as socialist democracies) pitches in and helps these countries better themselves, learn to be free and tolerant, that carries much more weight that just 2 countries over there orchestrating everything and makres the process harder to be corrupted.
Late,
grmpysmrf

even if you have secret service protection—no free pass. as some have suggested, bush is not available for comment, either because he’s an intellectual non-weight(yeah, i made that up) or, he’s waiting once again for direction from SOMEBODY. ANYBODY.
cheney , in the last week, has successfully poured the dirt over the ditch of the republican party in this country.
sometimes, sometimes, you need to shut up. cheney, majordomo in the past, doesn’t get it.
i hope he keeps talking. he should also keep referencing limbaugh.
prosecutions of these animals will not happen. agreed.