Things I've learnt playing in bands at the ripe old age of 23.

Discussion
1

AKA ‘LIVES RUINED BY MUSIC’.

Seriously, I’m going to vent. And yeah, I’m as wet behind the ears as the next guy. But, something happened which has made me go over a lot of things I’ve either witnessed first or second hand, or been a party to, since I started playing in bands.

I think this would be a cool thread for everyone to relate their own experiences. Mine is going to start off on a negative as all fuck tangent. But whatever. I really feel like venting somewhere I can do it relatively anonymously.

I saw this article in the news about a month ago after a massive accident not far from where I study. I remember on the day the roads being completely stuffed and traffic being fucko wazoo, with this as the reason- please take the time to watch it- it pretty much sets up for where this story is headed. http://www.smh.com.au/victoria/motorcyclist-injured-following-police-chase-through-fitzroy-20110609-1fu3k.html

I found out today, nearly a month later, that the 22 year old in question was the drummer for my first band. We were fucking close and I’ve spent most of this evening in tears, while he’s spent the past month in a coma- I found out from our old bassist though, that he may have woken up in as many days. Either way, flying 15 metres headfirst into a pole with enough force to shatter the helmet is going to do some damage.

This was a guy who was pretty intelligent, streetwise and funny without letting everyone know about it. I don’t think he once lied to me in my life. But, he had another side to him that as far as I’m concerned, was spawned by his old man, the dickheads around him and his own actions. Long story short, he started to get into the nightclub culture and the drugs that came with it. As for the ‘dickheads’, one of them whom he grew up with was born on the same day as me and spent his 21st birthday in prison. I turned 23 just the other day, and my friend will be turning 23 after a month on life support and having just come out of a coma.
Anyway, these factors triggered a lot of shit within him and led to a lot of problems. It was a real shame, because much as this was a ‘joke’ song, this thing we recorded at 15 year old in one take with no edits completely live would only have been made possible with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3yfChzdCs4.

Me and him were closest out of everyone in the band. We’d sit around calling everyone a faggot and beating the shit out of each other when we weren’t. But we were mates. We had similar demons, but unfortunately, he let his get the better of him. I tried my best to keep him into it, but I just got disappointed every time I did. You’d organise a jam hoping it’d spark something again, but he’d either forget and not even be present at his own house or just cancel at the last minute. Funny thing was, he was intensely apologetic each time.

But I’ll say this much- we were young, but we went through a lot of shit. He definitely put up with a lot from me, as did everyone else involved. But, he was still faithful to it until the fire simply burnt out. Even when I thought it was beyond hope, he managed to get himself to my 21st birthday and play all the old songs we did as teenagers for the first time in 5 years and played like a fucking demon. I’m amazed moreso that it happened given the bassist and I were not on speaking terms for 3 years and the hate in that band got beyond personal at some points. It was a shame, because we were starting to get some radio interest with that R2D2 song and getting gigs left right and centre, and then we fucked it.

I don’t know what my mate’s current condition is. All I know is I hope to fuck that it helps him turn his life around and gets him back behind the kit, where he belongs, bashing the fuck out of it.

And yeah, before anyone points out that he did ride a stolen motorbike, lead the cops on a chase and nearly kill a mother and 2 year old, I’m well aware of how fucked up all of those things are and my sadness is countered by just as much anger and frustration that his actions got to this point. Just please remember the person behind the story. It’s not as simple as the story makes it seem. It’s absolute sadness for everyone involved and it’d be heartless not to recognise that.

So… that’s the first story.

There’s plenty more, but too much to type in this post. I’m tired and just spent by this whole thing. You know what’s fucked up? Watching videos of our gigs and there’s one where we’re sharing the mic, calling out his name during a drum solo while 200 people cheer as we say it, sharing drinks together… that’s fucking hard to watch and think about the way things have turned out. That’s probably multiplied by 1000x for his parents, family, and anyone else who watched him grow up.

2

AKA ‘LIVES RUINED BY MUSIC’.

I saw this article in the news about a month ago after a massive accident not far from where I study… http://www.smh.com.au/victoria/motorcyclist-injured-following-police-chase-through-fitzroy-20110609-1fu3k.html

I remember this. And to be brutally honest, at the time I said “and good riddance to bad rubbish”. Honestly, when people (generally young, cocky shitheads with no respect towards human life other than their own) go and pull stunts like this, it fills me with a hatred and an anger that is usually reserved for the worst of the worst crimes. It’s terrible. It’s self centred and shows an appalling lack of moral fibre. If your life is fucked and you want to die, go off quietly somewhere and do it. DON’T take it out on the roads and wipe out some innocent third party.

If i had a friend who did this, they would no longer be my friend. I would turn my back on them forever.

I do understand however that it must be difficult for the friend and family of the perpetrator to have to go through needless agonising pain and suffering that they did not bring on themselves. To have to ask “why” time and time again and receive no plausible answer. So I do sympathise there. Especially when there are so many fond memories that are associated with this individual - memories that are now tainted forever whatever the outcome.

What I think will happen is that when this person is rehabilitated to a degree they will be facing some serious charges and considerable jail time.

Who knows what goes through people’s heads when they do things like this.

3

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/benjamin-canham-jailed-for-fatally-bashing-artist-with-metal-bar/story-fn7x8me2-1226084724817

…aaaaaaaand yet another self absorbed idiot with apparently zero respect for human life.

Nine years for killing someone in cold blood. Gee, what a tough justice system we have in this fair city of ours. Good thing he didn’t do anything ‘pervy’. Touch some kid on the bum at the local pool? Five years (and expect to be beaten senseless inside). Kill someone with an iron bar? Nine years…pending an appeal.

Makes sense.

Pffffffft.

4

That’s terrible… I’d feel pretty weird if I were in position of being friends with the guy. He obviously went down the wrong path and made the wrong decisions. Like Peligro, i’d have to just forget about him… Hard to do, but the way I see it, it’s better to remember the beginning, not the end.

5

apparently no one believes in second chances here? everyone makes mistakes.

6

apparently no one believes in second chances here? everyone makes mistakes.

I believe in second chances, sure, but there are somethings that do not get a second chance nor should they require a second chance. Intentionally harming others is one of those “no second chances.” Did he intentionally do it? Based on his actions, I would say, by default, yes.
So, I’m jumping on the peligro bus as well.
Late,
grmpysmrf

7

I’m with Peligro on this one as well, though I understand your sympathies towards whatever goodness this person had previous to his latest actions.

Not sure what this guys past is, and you’re alluded to either some form of abuse or neglect on the father’s part, which is sad but ultimately doesn’t excuse his actions. And not to be judgmental, but dickheads do tend to attract other dickheads, and if your friend wasn’t a dickhead he would have had the courage of his convictions to avoid the other dickheads. Maybe it was the drugs that made not wan’t to leave the dickhead scene, but it really doesn’t matter. Ultimately we are all responsible for our actions regardless of our pasts, and sometimes we make bad choices, I know I’ve made mine, not anything nearly as morally repugnant as this guy though.

As for second chances, the criminal justice system there will probably give him one eventually if he survives… whether you want to give him a second chance is your call. If I were you I’d avoid that guy even if he does make it out with half his wits.

What does this have to do with music ruining lives though? Sounds more like fucked up personalities mixed with drugs, bad people and bad decisions ruining lives to me.

8

What does this have to do with music ruining lives though? Sounds more like fucked up personalities mixed with drugs, bad people and bad decisions ruining lives to me?

That’s exactly what I wanted to ask.

Yep, pretty appalling lack of moral judgement, it must be said. Have had my fair share of friends who have gone off the rails. Not sure if I could ever forgive this particular fellow. If through his actions he’d harmed my family, I hunt the fucker for sport - coma or no coma.

I’ve seen lives ruined all too many times through the callous, self centred actions of others.

9

I understand the anger towards someone if his/her actions result in the harming of others. But I do not think that eliminates having compassion for that person.
Such actions should absolutely be punished (that’s why police and courts exist), but all this talk about not being friends with the guy . . . I don’t know. Maybe it’s that I don’t have many friends and the few I have I have pretty deep personal connections.

I’ll let the Peligro bandwagon pass by and stand by Dildo on this matter. I didn’t realize until now that Dildo was only 23. I don’t know why, but I was thinking he was closer to my age. I think one of the reasons I can be compassionate for people that make “bad decisions” is that I made my share of horrible decisions when I was younger (teens and early 20’s).

When I was 18, I almost killed my best friend through a horrible act of pranking gone bad. It was a huge lucky break (or fate or whatever) that he wasn’t badly hurt or killed. I could easily be serving a long sentence for manslaughter had things gone ever so slightly different.

And I’ve had other acts of violent dumbness that could be classified similarly.

I wouldn’t toss away a friend even if he did something horrible (unless he was unrepentant or callous or something). And I hope that my friends would treat me the same.

10

I wouldn’t shun the guy out of lack of compassion, I would shun him because in my experience certain people just carry bad luck, or bad ju-ju or whatever you want to call it, and it will suck you in if you let it simply by association. Perhaps that was what happened to Dildo’s friend.

Now when or if this guy recovers and is repentant and truly wants to change and breaks free of all the negative influences in his life I would probably retain his friendship. From what you said he probably isn’t a truly “evil” person, he probably does have some deep-down psychological problems that made him act in the way he did. Does that absolve him of all personal responsibility? Certainly not. That doesn’t mean you can’t be compassionate either, but unless he want’s to get off the path he’s walking, I’d avoid him like the plague.

11

I’ll let the Peligro bandwagon pass by and stand by Dildo on this matter.

Well, there’s no bandwagon. Evil D is free to act however he feels accordingly. I’ll not pass judgement on his actions.

However, if it was me and a friend of mine did something reckless for whatever stupid reason, then I would have to weigh that up against the merits of that particular friendship - and I don’t think any friendship I currently have would stand up to something like that.

I mean the guy could have killed a mother and/or her baby. And for what? Kicks? Because he was angry? Because someone dared him to? No particular reason? Try explaining that to grieving relatives.

Fuck me.

12

Yeah I can’t see how this can be blamed on music. People go off the rails like this regardless of whether they’re in the music scene or not.

This guy was reckless and he got hit for it. No one else was hurt. A mother and child got a fright. No one died.

Abandoning him might be a mistake as if his good friends ditch him, where will he turn to (assuming he needs to turn to someone). I suppose he could pack up and head for distant shores as well.

To put this case in perspective that covers some issues. Four years ago three of my buddies were driving home one night. All three were plastered, including the driver. He takes a bend too quickly car flips and crashes into a wall on the other side of the road. Driver’s ok, the guy in the back was ok, the guy in the passenger seat dies. It was a tragic event and a tragic mistake by the driver. But friends and family didn’t turn on him, they tried to help him because they knew he was feeling worse than anyone else (except maybe for the family of the guy who died.) The driver did a stint in prison (even though the parents of the guy who died refused to file charges against him) and is out now. He’s got his shit together and is still friends with all the old crew.

13

I meant to also note that I never actually looked at any of the links, so I’m basing my understanding of the “story” strictly on others’ comments.

14

If i had a friend who did this, they would no longer be my friend. I would turn my back on them forever.

i completely agree with this. its a hard thing to do. but as you get older - you realize life is too short. i apologize if what i’m saying is coming across as disrespectful to your friend. if you do not weed people out of your life you will take on their bullshit - or be a victim to it.

15

There’s really no excuse for behaviour like that. He could have killed a mother and a child for his own selfish purposes. I’d walk away from him without a doubt. I don’t care what his emotional state was at the time. Go and get some help. Don’t go and put others lives at risk.

I do also feel sorry for the guy’s friends and family. It must be difficult to go through times like these.

16

What does this have to do with music ruining lives though? Sounds more like fucked up personalities mixed with drugs, bad people and bad decisions ruining lives to me.

Yeah, I should probably clear that up. I pretty much posted this as soon as I heard everything and was feeling fucked up about it. I think it just boils down to his old man being a muso, doing nothing with himself, and just always cutting his son down to his level in any area. It’s too simplistic to blame his old man, though.

And it was stupid to say music fucks lives. It sort of hit me how many fucked cases I’ve come across playing. Try a suicide, a mental breakdown with a reclusive personality as a result, enough hate for threats being thrown across to call the police, not being on speaking terms with a number of people, a few of the guys I’ve played with staying in prison for extended periods of time… and I really haven’t been playing for that long or anything that’s been a big deal. I’ve sat at the bottom of the food chain, so to speak, for years and have still come across these complete and utter headcases.

But… really, it isn’t the music. It should have been their saving grace. If anything, at times they rejected the music and what talent they had in favour of the easy option. It’s hard to persevere, do something worthwhile, improve on your talent, and basically set yourself up to occasionally fail. None of these guys, especially the one in the accident, could ever deal with failure. And so, in each case, they took the easiest option and fucked everything. I was going to write all about those cases for whatever reason, but I just didn’t want to in the end.

I understand the anger towards someone if his/her actions result in the harming of others. But I do not think that eliminates having compassion for that person.
Such actions should absolutely be punished (that’s why police and courts exist), but all this talk about not being friends with the guy . . . I don’t know. Maybe it’s that I don’t have many friends and the few I have I have pretty deep personal connections.

This is spot on.
Yeah, I’m well aware that what my friend has done is completely fucked. I’ve been well aware for years he was headed towards something like this. Occasionally, I tried to do something, but it just got thrown back in my face. That didn’t bother me. His life.

But, the fact I feel some anger means I still care about him and that he was more than a friend. Almost like family in certain respects. I am pretty much devastated that he would put his mother, his family, his friends, the woman and child in the car and all the onlookers, the police in the chase and to a far lesser extent, the person who had their bike stolen, through a shitload of unnecessary distress. That is frustrating beyond words.

But, I wouldn’t admonish him to anyone that knew him. This isn’t the time for that. There’ll be time for that IF he recovers- and ultimately, he’s just set himself up for a great deal of pain that he’s dragged everyone who cares about him into.

You look at his wall on facebook, and the only expressions of concern are from 5 girls he knew, his best friend and me. None of his crew, from school or otherwise, has so much as expressed any form of concern, publicly or otherwise. I don’t have any point to that other than… well, it says a lot. It’s a sad indictment on who he chose to hang around and ultimately, lead himself into becoming.

Yeah… so Gunnar… hearing your personal stories, you’ve been there. You had the opportunity to regret it. This guy has fucked everything and the only opportunity he’s had is the ability to say that he didn’t kill anyone else in that accident, which was a stroke of pure fate.

I wouldn’t shun the guy out of lack of compassion, I would shun him because in my experience certain people just carry bad luck, or bad ju-ju or whatever you want to call it, and it will suck you in if you let it simply by association. Perhaps that was what happened to Dildo’s friend.

Now when or if this guy recovers and is repentant and truly wants to change and breaks free of all the negative influences in his life I would probably retain his friendship. From what you said he probably isn’t a truly “evil” person, he probably does have some deep-down psychological problems that made him act in the way he did. Does that absolve him of all personal responsibility? Certainly not. That doesn’t mean you can’t be compassionate either, but unless he want’s to get off the path he’s walking, I’d avoid him like the plague.

Agreed wholeheartedly. But the truth is, anything I do wouldn’t extend beyond a hospital visit and that’s it. He’s literally made his bed and has no choice but to lie in it. That’s the situation he’s in- he has absolutely no choice and no control, recovered or not. I did everything I could without getting dragged into that shit, so I’m at least comfortable with that. It’s just a completely depressing situation.

I mean the guy could have killed a mother and/or her baby. And for what? Kicks? Because he was angry? Because someone dared him to? No particular reason? Try explaining that to grieving relatives.

That’s the reality of it pretty much, Peligro. You don’t need to remind me of how fucking selfish and self indulgent an act it was and how it reflected the life he’d chosen to lead. But, that wasn’t him. He dug himself into a whole and it consumed him. I knew him and remembered him as a decent person, who to this day, people still speak no ill of. If anything, as much as noone is surprised, there’s a great degree of pity for him. Unusually so, given that he was generally regarded as a decent person with a shitload of issues. They got him in the end.

Contrast that with another fellow in my year level who chose to throw a 93 year old man to the ground and attempted to rob him. He was spat on in public, pretty much dismissed by all, and regarded as a cunt long before that particular act. It’s a pretty terrible thing to do, but had he have been generally regarded as a decent kid who did such an act thanks to whatever drugs he took, there would have been at least a tiny fraction of pity for the situation he’d brought upon himself rather than the all out hatred he copped thereafter. There would have been confusion, dismay and the general feeling of such an act not truly being representative of the person he used to be- as for the person he may have been at that time, such behaviour is highly indicative of that and that’s pretty much why the law exists; the reform that sort of person and the shit acts that come with them.

I’m not trying to justify the acts of these people or beg for mercy on the offenders; I know just as many victims of these sort of acts and can sympathise with them wholly. I guess my point is they weren’t always fucked. There’s a bit of a life story behind it, there were people that cared for them, and in the end, such is the selfishness of their ways, that a lot of people get hurt beyond the victims. In this case, the ultimate victim has been himself.

To put this case in perspective that covers some issues. Four years ago three of my buddies were driving home one night. All three were plastered, including the driver. He takes a bend too quickly car flips and crashes into a wall on the other side of the road. Driver’s ok, the guy in the back was ok, the guy in the passenger seat dies. It was a tragic event and a tragic mistake by the driver. But friends and family didn’t turn on him, they tried to help him because they knew he was feeling worse than anyone else (except maybe for the family of the guy who died.) The driver did a stint in prison (even though the parents of the guy who died refused to file charges against him) and is out now. He’s got his shit together and is still friends with all the old crew.

Well, that says it all. I’m crossing my fingers til they break that this is the outcome, but it doesn’t look good at this point.

Yeah… so I’m generally not one to vent like this, but I did anyway. I guess because I felt like just hearing what people detached from it all had to say. And yeah, I think there’s a lot to be said for some of the wisdom that abounds on this board. Cheers folks

17

Perhaps that was what happened to Dildo’s friend.

Ummm… how come throughout the whole post you refer to yourself using personal pronouns but in the spot above you refer to yourself in the third person?
Jut askin’
Late,
grmpysmrf

18

botched quote from someone else’s post I’m guessing.

Not quite the same deal, but this reminds me a little bit of a stupid debate I had on facebook about Ryan Dunn and how little sympathy I have for the schmuck.

http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/davelybob/?action=view&current=RyanDunn.jpg

Meanwhile numerous friends of mine are STILL posting tributes and crying about this terrible loss like he’s fucking Mother Theresa and I’m STILL like “so fucking what, grow up already.”

Crazy and stupid are two things that as I’ve gotten older I’ve found I have less and less tolerance for, and the more I try to limit my exposure to them. Some people you just have to let go. I’ve got a friend I’m ducking right now who has utterly fucked her shit all up and after writing all her people off and dropping us all and willfully ignoring the people around her trying to stop her from fucking her shit up, has decided that she can come waltzing back after 3 years of ruining everything she touches and everyone will just take her back without any sort of comment or judgement. Sorry, bitch- the real world doesn’t work that way. I used to sit and listen to your bullshit drama because we actually used to hang out (and you rolled the best blunts ever), but I’ll be damned if I’m going to get sucked into your bullshit quicksand now. Whoever gave her my new number is getting fucked up when I find out.

Hell, I wrote off my best friend of 9 years when he started a feud with fully half of our crew- I tried playing the middle and not taking sides, but he kept picking at the scabs and getting all coked-out paranoid until one day he shows up uninvited at my house where I’m cleaning up for a BBQ with the other side and when they show up, then he decides I “set him up”. People like that, it’s just not worth it. Psychic vampires, my mom calls 'em. And when it was all said and done, I sat down and thought about it and realized that besides making me laugh, the only thing that guy ever did for me in 9 years was fuck every girl I ever told him I liked before I could even try to hook it up. Good fucking riddance.

It sucks, Dildo, but in the long run you’re better off, and really with time it won’t bother you at all. Life’s not short, it’s soooooooooooo looooooong. Too long to saddle yourself with bullshit baggage you don’t need.

19

botched quote from someone else’s post I’m guessing.

Yeah, that’s what I thought too.

Not quite the same deal, but this reminds me a little bit of a stupid debate I had on facebook about Ryan Dunn and how little sympathy I have for the schmuck.

http://s58.photobucket.com/albums/g272/davelybob/?action=view&current=RyanDunn.jpg

Meanwhile numerous friends of mine are STILL posting tributes and crying about this terrible loss like he’s fucking Mother Theresa and I’m STILL like “so fucking what, grow up already.”

Yeah, it’s kind of related but different in that people are getting their panties wadded up over someone they didn’t even know.

I’m pretty cynical about people that get overly emotional about any celebrity death (regardless the circumstance). I remember when Dimebag was killed and people were all sharing their stories about how “If it wasn’t for Dime and his music I’d be dead now anyway! His music is the only thing that got me through those hard times. I would have killed myself if it wasn’t for Dimebag!”

Really? Are you friggin’ serious? (And many confirm to me that yes, they are serious.) Your life is that hollow and stupid that a guitarist with a stupid beard is the only thing that kept you alive?

With Ryan Dunn the situation is even stupider, though. Dime was murdered. Dunn was . . . . well, he was an asshole. A drunken, uncaring asshole without concern for his life or those around him. What did he do with his life? Did he cure cancer? Did he establish a school for the blind in war-torn Serbia? No. He ran around with a bunch of other drunken assholes hitting each other with things, crashing things into other things, and injuring each others’ balls. Pretty damn noble, if you ask me.

I understand the sadness of losing a beloved artist, celebrity, or rockstar. But really truly mourning the event like your own father or brother died? I just don’t get it.

20

Did he establish a school for the blind in war-torn Serbia?

You’d have to be a right asshole to do that [:P]