theory

Discussion
1

ok, so hear me out,

the is the last tiem i post ANYTHIGN having to do withthe setlist, (seeing as i am ok with it, wish there was more, but still i like it)

Al and Barker were close for a long time, and some people try to minimize their friendship, or make it more of a working relationship, but seeing as paul was the only other REAL member of ministry ever, and was the longest member in the band short of al, it has to be assumed that they at least respected and maybe even loved eachother.

when paul left, from what i know, it wasnt a very friendly goodbye. this MUST have tore al apart.

i mean, look at Al for a second, he is insane. he is very clearly a sociopath oto some degree, and a total nut. that’s what makes his music so powerful, so interesting, and so honest. he is a full on nut job. he has foght for ministry for YEARS! he foght for respect after WS, he battled for the top spot amongst the budding industrial word in the late 80s, and he lost his first wife dude to his, ‘lifestyle’.

if you read Chris’ book it shows that al was and is insecure, scared, and really really bent on showing the world and the people around him that he can do this.

when paul left it must have really made al look at things. he lost his closest friend, and now was left in a spot where most bands fall apart.

so it is very clear to me that on this tour he is playing a huge bulk of things paul didnt write cus he wants to show that he carried on. he wants to show paul, and the world, but mostly himself, im sure, that he was ministry even without paul. he wants people to see that his music wasnt all, Al Jourgensen, with Paul Barker.

sure for somepeopel this sint a good setlist, but i understand why it is this way.

and damn it al is a tracig guy. he really just wants to show that he did something without paul, and be liked cus of it.

i like the songs, and i’m seeing this show two days in a row, and i couldnt be happier. i love ministry, i love the last three albums, and hell, i feel terrible for al. he’s trying to show that he can do it, and peope are tearing him apart cus they want to relive the late 80s early 90s over and over again.

im sure al never wants to visit thoes days again.

ok, you can rip me apart now for voicing an opinion.

2

Sounds like your review of, “The Little Engine That Could.” [:)]
Late,
grmpysmrf

3

I think we can all understand that but if he wanted the tour to be like this he should have advertised it as something more like the trilogy tour. Instead he insinuated this was a career spanning show.

4

Sounds like your review of, “The Little Engine That Could.” [:)]

Though I’m inclined to agree with grmpysmrf’s statement, I think this is the perfect, and LOGICAL, way to tell everyone to stop bitching about the setlist.

Al is fuckin’ CRAZY. That much I’ll agree with. And if this tour is a way for him to deal with his crazies, regardless of its complete failure to deliver everything advertised, then more power to him… you dig?

However, I am still going to punch him in the face. After begging for an autograph, of course. [laugh]

5

I think it’s more a “Fuck You” to everyone who slagged off post-Barker Ministry.

Quite sad really…

6

Well, every once in a while, a “fuck you” is kinda needed to maintain sanity, regardless of consequences of said “fuck you.”

7

Edit…reply to rustyhacksaw…

I read Chris’ book, and got the impression they weren’t really as close as you suggest. From Chris’ vantage point, it didn’t seem as though Al and Paul were running around together every day. Maybe they were close during the Rape and Honey sessions, who knows.

My take: I don’t think the new set list has anything to do with Al’s feelings towards Paul. I just think he’s a stubborn guy who could care less about fan apathy (and this goes back to the Twitch days). He wrote the fans off in interviews back then, and he’s writing the fans off again with this final send-off. A fan-pleasing farewell set list would only contradict his self-serving nature. Surely he knows that this current set would upset a lot of the fans, and that’s good enough for him. Why should he finally give the fans what they want, farewell tour or not?

1002

8

Edit…reply to rustyhacksaw…

I read Chris’ book, and got the impression they weren’t really as close as you suggest. From Chris’ vantage point, it didn’t seem as though Al and Paul were running around together every day. Maybe they were close during the Rape and Honey sessions, who knows.

Al isnt a ‘close’ guy. i mean look at him the longest lasting friendship he has is with jello biafra, and they bearly even see eachother.

i’m not sure what would have made al this way, but he is surely NOT a close huggy person. i think that the fact that he gave paul the HONOR of being a full member and kept him around so long is a sign of VERY close freindship for a guy like al.

9

[reply]Edit…reply to rustyhacksaw…

i’m not sure what would have made al this way, but he is surely NOT a close huggy person.

He was with the mother of my children when we met him. And he was with me come to think of it.

Jizzwad may be on to something…

10

could be. remember the hype for rantology… “oh man i’m sittin’ in the studio makin’ kick-ass remixes for n.w.o. and just one fix”

then he ended up dismissing rantology as being forced and he hates revisitionism, etc… and that his choice of tracks was limited by warner bros, etc.

they also can’t rerelease their sire/warner albums/stuff too (confirmed by mrs. jay)

barker was on a lot of “old” songs’ credits. so if you put it all together, maybe that’s the case.

11

Hypo-Luxa or something?

Luxa Pan?

12

I still get the impression that the set-list could be dictated by legal problems.

especially with burton singing on all the old stuff…

I’d actually semi respect that if it was the case. But if it is, Al should at least have the balls to stand up and say ‘i cant play all the old stuff due to the current legal situtation’.

13

Nah, it’s simpler than that.
Al just sincerely believes that whatever his most recent work is is also his best work ever.
Remember, the much lauded '89 tour consisted entirely of songs from the previous two albums and a handful of covers. The only difference between then and now is that those two albums received far more praise than the four he’s working from today.

14

I still get the impression that the set-list could be dictated by legal problems.
?

I asked Mr. Barker about this - he didn’t even know of the set list (and the complaints) until I told him - he said it had absolutely nothing to do with legal reasons.

15

good post rusty…

I hear where you’re coming from, and you can run with that. however, i don’t think there’s any depth to al. I think a lot of the reason he is where he is is because he is so withdrawn form everyone. and he creates a “buzz” gets people fired up then runs with it. in fact, to be honest… i don’t think al wrote any of the last few albums. (i think he just mixes them) i imagine him bring in a guitar guy (i.e. - mikey) stand over him while he chugs out some riffs and all, then screams - “THAT ONE, MAN! YEA THAT ONE. DO THAT.” and so it goes…

shit i dunno, my words are all speculation - but yea, i agree - i think he’s probably a total nut-case.

16

hm, nice. thanks for the info afra

17

Nah, it’s simpler than that.
Al just sincerely believes that whatever his most recent work is is also his best work ever.
Remember, the much lauded '89 tour consisted entirely of songs from the previous two albums and a handful of covers. The only difference between then and now is that those two albums received far more praise than the four he’s working from today.

I think you got it in one. He always talked about liking to retire songs older than three albums back on tour. Fair enough, he’s the one calling the shots.

However it is rude when you advertise this as your jukebox hits playing farewell tour and don’t deliver. That and the fact he’s not playing any of my favorite songs off the last three albums is what is keeping me away.

18

However it is rude when you advertise this as your jukebox hits playing farewell tour and don’t deliver. That and the fact he’s not playing any of my favorite songs off the last three albums is what is keeping me away.

Agreed. If he used the exact same setlist, but called it the CULATOUR PRESIDENT BUSH show and tied it in with the election as an anti-Bush concept tour people wouldn’t be as pissed off as they are from hearing this set on a farewell tour.
Of course, it’s unlikely we’d be seeing any sold out shows if he’d billed it that way…

19

However it is rude when you advertise this as your jukebox hits playing farewell tour and don’t deliver.

This is totally the complaint I have. I think this is the complaint ALL complainers have. Just pissed at the bait and switch. Hell yea, shoulda Called it the C U L8TeR Bush Tour an I’m usr the bitchng would be minimal.

i imagine him bring in a guitar guy (i.e. - mikey) stand over him while he chugs out some riffs and all, then screams - “THAT ONE, MAN! YEA THAT ONE. DO THAT.” and so it goes…

LOL That’s hilarious! Supposedly that’s what Biafra hinged his Case on with The Other DK’s in sayng that he wrote the music.
TOO Funny!
Late,
grmpysmrf

20

[reply]
Agreed. If he used the exact same setlist, but called it the CULATOUR PRESIDENT BUSH show

that would be telling…i like it.

And thx Afra for the info…i didn’t think Al would not do the old songs because of legal issues…he just doesn’t want to do them! [:(]