Provice of Quebec Secular Values Charter

Discussion
1

This is what we are going through up here right now. Thought I’d ask you all for your opinions…

[i] The Quebec government has tabled its controversial values charter in the national assembly.

Bill 60 would force state employees to take off their headscarves, yarmulkes, turbans and larger-than-average crucifixes if they want to keep their jobs.

“The purpose of this bill is to establish a Charter affirming the values of State secularism and religious neutrality and of equality between women and men, and providing a framework for accommodation request,” reads a note at the beginning of the document.

If adopted, not only must state employees have their faces uncovered while administering government services, but those receiving those services must also have their faces uncovered.

The government and the opposition parties argued before the bill was tabled as to whether it should be considered a motion of confidence in the government.

The charter’s title in its entirety is the Charter Affirming The Values Of Secularism And The Religious Neutrality Of The State, As Well As The Equality Of Men And Women, And The Framing Of Accommodation Requests.

[/i]

2

For it.

3

Umm… free speech wise, not cool, at least for those seeking services. Sanity wise, yeah that shit is dumb and totally not appropriate to be wearing as a govt employee anyway.

4

For it.

Me too. Religious displays have no business in government.

6

Against it. I find this sort of thing silly, petty and pointless. Shouldn’t matter why someone wears what they wear, be it a religious reason or personal preference. Just because you work for the government doesn’t mean you need to dress like a drone. Unless it obstructs what you do, why does it matter?

7

Ehh I would be against it. Whats next? Are they gonna make every colored person bleach their skin to fit in with the main population? I think they should value diversity.

And the fact that their job is on the line is a dick slap in the face. I’d think the people affected by ghis would rather leave.

8

It’s an incredibly slippery slope…

Healthcare up here is run by the government, so technically, if you are the most qualified doctor in the world, but want to wear a yarmulke, you won’t be able to get a job. So we’d be stuck with the crap shoot left over doctors.

Also… as a side note, in our National Assembly… our Provincial Parliament building, where they have their debates and stuff, there is a giant crucifix hanging on the wall… Apparently that can stay because it’s a “cultural” icon, not a “religious” one.

Also also… it states that the primacy of French will be added to the Quebec Charter of Rights and Freedoms, setting up a potential legal conflict with the Canadian Constitution.

Basically… that everyone has to use French as the primary language in Quebec… we are already the laughing stock of Canada. We have “Language Police” that have to investigate if the sign on your business has the french words larger than the english ones. Menus have to have the french descriptions first and larger than the english ones. And when you shop you are supposed to be served in french. (this is private businesses, btw, not public or government ones).

It’s ass!

9

Retarded.

Head scarves and yarmulkes to me is just who someone is. It does not interfere with whatever uniform they are required to wear as default for the job. This is just another stupid case of people getting marginalized for having a particular faith.

“Larger than necessary crucifixes” . . . well, that part is pretty vague and dumb. Just say “No outwardly displayed jewelry.” End of story. It’s obvious to me that some a-holes came up with this dumb law because they have a chip on their shoulder so they attacked the most visible and obvious targets. Then they realized that it looked weird because Christians weren’t also targeted so they tacked on the dumb crucifix thing as an afterthought.

Unless someone’s faith interferes with their job duties or they are harassing others due to their faith or lack thereof . . . leave 'em the heck alone.

I’m also fine with telling people not to wear t-shirts with messages on them as it is distracting and silly (not just religious, mind you, but political, sports, you name it). All this, “I gotta express myself” crap that we treasure in the US is just as silly, in my opinion. I’m a metalhead, but at work I dress like any other generic yuppie businessman because that is my job. I’m not paid to love Twisted Sister and drink beer in a parking lot and no one needs to know about that.

But to specifically attack something which is for some a “required” tenet of their faith (turban, head scarf, yarmulke, whatever), that is, as someone else noted, petty and dumb. If you are offended by a person at the DMV counter for wearing a small cloth disc on their head, you are equally silly. I’m quite all right with you not getting your driver’s license (or coming back at another time when you can be comfortably served by someone without a floppy cloth disc on his/her head).

So stupid. So very very stupid.

11

Retarded.

Head scarves and yarmulkes to me is just who someone is. It does not interfere with whatever uniform they are required to wear as default for the job. This is just another stupid case of people getting marginalized for having a particular faith.

“Larger than necessary crucifixes” . . . well, that part is pretty vague and dumb. Just say “No outwardly displayed jewelry.” End of story. It’s obvious to me that some a-holes came up with this dumb law because they have a chip on their shoulder so they attacked the most visible and obvious targets. Then they realized that it looked weird because Christians weren’t also targeted so they tacked on the dumb crucifix thing as an afterthought.

Unless someone’s faith interferes with their job duties or they are harassing others due to their faith or lack thereof . . . leave 'em the heck alone.

I’m also fine with telling people not to wear t-shirts with messages on them as it is distracting and silly (not just religious, mind you, but political, sports, you name it). All this, “I gotta express myself” crap that we treasure in the US is just as silly, in my opinion. I’m a metalhead, but at work I dress like any other generic yuppie businessman because that is my job. I’m not paid to love Twisted Sister and drink beer in a parking lot and no one needs to know about that.

But to specifically attack something which is for some a “required” tenet of their faith (turban, head scarf, yarmulke, whatever), that is, as someone else noted, petty and dumb. If you are offended by a person at the DMV counter for wearing a small cloth disc on their head, you are equally silly. I’m quite all right with you not getting your driver’s license (or coming back at another time when you can be comfortably served by someone without a floppy cloth disc on his/her head).

So stupid. So very very stupid.

yup, pretty much agree with this one.

damn canada, making mistakes left and right… its getting harder to say ‘when the shit hits the fan, i’ll just run to canada’ now…

12

It’s an incredibly slippery slope…

Healthcare up here is run by the government, so technically, if you are the most qualified doctor in the world, but want to wear a yarmulke, you won’t be able to get a job. So we’d be stuck with the crap shoot left over doctors.

I think this is a bit of an oversimplification. You make it sound like you either get the best doctor or ya get crap, which I’m sure is not the case. I’m not sure what kind of schooling and procedures Canada has for its Doctors but I would think that with the amount of schooling that would be required, that even the most crappy doctor would be more than competent.

Besides, I don’t think that I’ve ever run into a doctor yet that wears his religion on his sleeve (or his head for that matter)

I think, for me, when it comes to your job you don’t represent your religion, you represent whoever you are working for. If your religion states that you have to advertise for them 24 hours a day, then you are clearly in the wrong job and you should find an employer that will let you do both (represent them and your god) Otherwise set God aside for your own time.

Also… as a side note, in our National Assembly… our Provincial Parliament building, where they have their debates and stuff, there is a giant crucifix hanging on the wall… Apparently that can stay because it’s a “cultural” icon, not a “religious” one.

Yeah, that’s bullshit. It’s either all religious or it’s all cultural. You would think that that kind of ruling would set a precedent and let everybody wear their religious items because it’s cultural not religious.

Also also… it states that the primacy of French will be added to the Quebec Charter of Rights and Freedoms, setting up a potential legal conflict with the Canadian Constitution.

Basically… that everyone has to use French as the primary language in Quebec… we are already the laughing stock of Canada. We have “Language Police” that have to investigate if the sign on your business has the french words larger than the english ones. Menus have to have the french descriptions first and larger than the english ones. And when you shop you are supposed to be served in french. (this is private businesses, btw, not public or government ones).

It’s ass!

Yeah fuckin’ stupid. I know why they’re doing it though. 'cause if they adopt an official language then the government won’t be required to print any other significant minority languages in government brochures which means spending less $. It’s a monetary play.
Late,
grmpysmrf