pissarmy

Discussion
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[reply][reply]

I am one of few who can separate personality from art

Me too.

If I couldn’t I’d find it impossible to listen to Morrissey.[/reply]
sigh [rolleyes] fine, whatever, just know that even though you can “separate” it out doesn’t mean your not funding that Bullshit they’re in to. They don’t care about your motives.
[/reply]

Exactly. If you want to LISTEN to Burzum, go right ahead. I won’t criticize you. I listen to a lot of neo-folk myself, and those guys aren’t exactly members of the Rainbow Coalition.
Just don’t PAY for that shit.

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Grmpysmrf I’m gonna have to disagree with ur previous statement.

That’s cool. Ok I’m not the smartest dude out here. I just have a logic process I normally use for situations like these.

Imo ur only funding the music.

Naive! If he were only using that money for recording and the making of new music then, yeah sure that’s great I’m all for it. But you have no control on what people like this are spending that $ on. So to think that your dollar is the one that got a new stomp box rather than was donated to the “kill the non whites” propaganda groups is ludicrous!

Now if Varg was actually singing about nazi shit(WHICH HE DOESN’T THANK YOU VERY MUCH) then you’d be funding his beliefs.

Really? So you think by buying ICP you’re only funding stupd songs about clowns and masogyny? Please we’ve also seen the juggalloo video clips!

[ReplyBut here’s an article he wrote about the whole nazi thing
http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/a_burzum_story07.shtml[/reply]
I was more making a blanket statement about artists that have some fucked up social beleifs rather than varg specificallly. Didn’t this guy kill his vocalist? Too?

With that said and what I posted, grmpysmrf, I find ur previous statement to be rather ignorant. But other than that you seem like a cool person
that’s cool you seem a lot better now that you’ve been here awhile yourself we just disagree that’s all!

Btw I agree with the rev in that you just take that music and listen to it make a copy whatever then yeah you are not supporting that social view!
Late,
grmpysmrf
(Sorry bout all of the spellling and punctuation harder to edit ona phone than an actual comp)

23

well i agree that supporting an ‘artist’ means that you are bolstering their life.

there are MANY musicians whose music i have heard and on the surface liked, but i refuse to support in any way, shape, or form. why would i want to listen to the expressions and art from a guy who really thinks that ‘fags’ are worth less than he is? why would i want to listen to music from a man who thinks its ok to murder people who dont agree with you?

when i buy into art, be it visual, audio, whatever, i buy into it. i want to love it and i want to be immersed with it. i want it to become a part fo my thought process and my life. so why on earth would i be ok with swallowing jagged chunks of glass from hate-mongers, racists, and other people i generally dont want to align myself with?

its the same as with food, or soap, sure there are soaps that smell nice, but they are brutally tested on animals, or they are made in inhuman conditions, so why would i want to buy them and support that hatred?

just because someone write a cool sounding song isnt enough. if they are living life with feelings that go against my core, then i cant support them in any way. i dont want them to die or even stop making music, but for me, i just refuse to like or support them.

24

I still think that argument is totally missing the point.

Yeah, of course you’d avoid cosmetic products, etc. coz they are DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED with being tested on animals.

But how is a man’s music which does not really articulate any of his political beliefs in any way directly associated with whom he chooses to vote for or hate, insofar as he does not advocate that in his music?

Seriously. The incidental funding of his bank account is purely that; incidental.

I don’t see how exactly record sales and any other royalties are substantial enough to fund his political views/aspirations/whatever when the main concern is raising his kids, putting food on his table, paying rent, and THEN having a bit left over for his music.

I really doubt for that reason, from a pragmatic point of view, that he’d be willing to splash out on the ultra rare collectors edition of Mein Kampf with a commemorative Zyklon B air freshener.

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[Reply]Imo ur only funding the music.

Naive! If he were only using that money for recording and the making of new music then, yeah sure that’s great I’m all for it. But you have no control on what people like this are spending that $ on. So to think that your dollar is the one that got a new stomp box rather than was donated to the “kill the non whites” propaganda groups is ludicrous!

Now if Varg was actually singing about nazi shit(WHICH HE DOESN’T THANK YOU VERY MUCH) then you’d be funding his beliefs.

Really? So you think by buying ICP you’re only funding stupd songs about clowns and masogyny? Please we’ve also seen the juggalloo video clips!

[ReplyBut here’s an article he wrote about the whole nazi thing
http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/a_burzum_story07.shtml[/reply]
I was more making a blanket statement about artists that have some fucked up social beleifs rather than varg specificallly. Didn’t this guy kill his vocalist? Too?
[/reply]

First off I don’t think Varg is gonna use the money for much else other than music and basic living essentials. The guy lives on a farm in the country side of norway and doesn’t really care to have much contact with the outside world. He’s basically a hermit who just wants to spend the rest of his days in solitude.

Second, ICP is a horrible example bc the majority of their music pretty much sux. I like a few songs here and there but overall I find them to be quite annoying. And their fans are worse.

Third, Varg killed Euronymous, the guitarist of Mayhem. Varg had done the bass on Mayhem’s, at the time, yet to be released album de mysteriis dom sathanas. There’s many theories as to why Varg did it but you can go on his website and look up his side of the story for yourself. I’d leave a link but I doubt you’ll read it. It gives all the details as to what happened and how he got fucked over by the courts to get the maximum sentence of 21 years(although he only served 16)

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half you people are fucked.

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I still think that argument is totally missing the point.

Yeah, of course you’d avoid cosmetic products, etc. coz they are DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED with being tested on animals.

But how is a man’s music which does not really articulate any of his political beliefs in any way directly associated with whom he chooses to vote for or hate, insofar as he does not advocate that in his music?

Seriously. The incidental funding of his bank account is purely that; incidental.

I don’t see how exactly record sales and any other royalties are substantial enough to fund his political views/aspirations/whatever when the main concern is raising his kids, putting food on his table, paying rent, and THEN having a bit left over for his music.

I really doubt for that reason, from a pragmatic point of view, that he’d be willing to splash out on the ultra rare collectors edition of Mein Kampf with a commemorative Zyklon B air freshener.

it isnt just about the money. it is the support that clinches it for me.

art is an innately individual and spiritual process, it is an exercise in communicating something from inside of you. its a statement. and so yeah, while Varg for example doesnt say that he is a bigoted murderous bastard in his lyrics, he is expressing himself in the search for validation. and if i were to listen to his work and give him that validation i am going against my own code and giving this man the authority to continue doing what he does.
like i said, i dont think he shouldnt be allowed to make his art, that isnt my place at all, but i cant support him or peopel like him in any way,because then i am validating their hatred.

our actions have effects. and i dont want to give this murderous bigot any authority or validation.

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First off I don’t think Varg is gonna use the money for much else other than music and basic living essentials. The guy lives on a farm in the country side of norway and doesn’t really care to have much contact with the outside world. He’s basically a hermit who just wants to spend the rest of his days in solitude.

Second, ICP is a horrible example bc the majority of their music pretty much sux. I like a few songs here and there but overall I find them to be quite annoying. And their fans are worse.

Third, Varg killed Euronymous, the guitarist of Mayhem. Varg had done the bass on Mayhem’s, at the time, yet to be released album de mysteriis dom sathanas. There’s many theories as to why Varg did it but you can go on his website and look up his side of the story for yourself. I’d leave a link but I doubt you’ll read it. It gives all the details as to what happened and how he got fucked over by the courts to get the maximum sentence of 21 years(although he only served 16)

I think you or someone else already posted that link, I read all of it. Quite an interesting read really. Although rather highschoolish at times with the he said she said…

If you are completely sure he’s not hoarding that cash to use at a later date or donating… I suppose I could see your point.

Although I disagree ICP is a very apt analogy! You see how buying their crappy music extends farther than just the music! It would be no different if you thought their music was great. Even if it was great buying that crap is still fostering that culture that you say you hate.

If I was a right wing piece of shit you wouldn’t catch me buying ratm even if I liked the grooves I know they spend their money on what I would disagree with so I wouldn’t support that.
Late,
grmpysmrf

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it isnt just about the money. it is the support that clinches it for me.

art is an innately individual and spiritual process, it is an exercise in communicating something from inside of you. its a statement. and so yeah, while Varg for example doesnt say that he is a bigoted murderous bastard in his lyrics, he is expressing himself in the search for validation. and if i were to listen to his work and give him that validation i am going against my own code and giving this man the authority to continue doing what he does.

Ethics, I completely agree.

like i said, i dont think he shouldnt be allowed to make his art, that isnt my place at all, but i cant support him or peopel like him in any way,because then i am validating their hatred.

hate it when people express my opinions better than I can!
Late,
grmpysmrf

30

If you are completely sure he’s not hoarding that cash to use at a later date or donating… I suppose I could see your point.

You could buy a cd from the most innocuous bubblegum pop artist around and unknowlingly contribute to their love of child pornography or dog fighting. You just know where your money is going.

When you donate to charity can you be sure that 100% of those funds are going directly to the desired target? No you can’t. So then…what are you going to do? Never buy anything from anyone?? See where I’m going with this?

If you don’t want to buy into Burzum - whether it be his art or politics or whatever, then don’t. You can’t blanket label those who choose to listen to a particular artist and accuse them then of having a similar agenda or ideology as that particular artist. That’s ridiculous. You have zero control over what an artist thinks or how they act in their private lives.

As far as I know, Varg doesn’t fly the flag for anything. He has his views on society, just like everybody else. Some of his views may annoy you. Some of them annoy me. Am I funding his views by buying his music? Not intentionally. I don’t knowingly contribute to the Varg Society For Furthering The Spread Of Neo Fascist Hatred. I’m funding his music. And I want him to release more of it.

If you pay to see a Tom Cruise film and then ol’ Tommy boy decides to hand his earning over to the Church Of Scientology, then by your reasoning, you are funding the Church Of Scientology.

If I was a right wing piece of shit you wouldn’t catch me buying ratm even if I liked the grooves I know they spend their money on what I would disagree with so I wouldn’t support that.

A left wing piece of shit is as big a piece of shit as a right one.

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A left wing piece of shit is as big a piece of shit as a right one.

Indeed, two stools never make a right.

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half you people are fucked.

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If no one chooses to buy product to not donate to “evil forces” so be it, their perogative.

Some realize that while the intent is pure, the artist really isn’t going to do much with the less than $1.00 a disc the artist eventually makes… (this excludes self-releases of course)

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[reply]If I was a right wing piece of shit you wouldn’t catch me buying ratm even if I liked the grooves I know they spend their money on what I would disagree with so I wouldn’t support that.

Perhaps some folks are more open to view points they themselves may not share? Perhaps others are able to respect another’s view whether they are in agreement or not? The world would be a boring place if it were nothing but group think.

I completely dig RATM. And I didn’t steal their music despite knowing full well what their world views are.[/reply]

its not about respecting people’s views. i even said before that i am not standing in Varg’s way, or Ian Donaldson’s, or any other bigoted monster. it is fully their right to not only HAVE these horrible opinions, but to talk about them as well. I however cant allow myself to support them.

if someone loves to fuck kids and they are vocal about that, but they can make good cake, would it be fair to enjoy that person’s cake knowing that they feel no regret for the horrible things that they do?

its really just a question of personal ethics. some people dont see anythign wrong with buying Nike sneakers, i do. some people dont see anythign wrong with buying/listening to Skrewdriver, i do. simple as that.

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Hey rusty it’s spelled anything

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well… i mean… i really like RATM, and i agree with a huge chunk of their politics. so FOR ME, they are in a different boat.

but i just keep my eyes open to the art i consume. if there is ill-will behind it somewhere i find it harder to accept, especially when it goes against the bedrock of my ethical core.

39

Hey rusty it’s spelled anything

ah yes, the horrible typos that come with typing quickly.

its a damn shame that my whole point is rendered moot now because of them.

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However, killing people is just plain wrong.

Well Varg didn’t plan to do it. Euronymous made it a fight and Varg was defending himself.

@rustyhacksaw I wouldn’t render it moot. First off I don’t even know what moot means but I assume it means something along the lines of pointless

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This is the best pissarmy thread ever!!!

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[reply][reply]However, killing people is just plain wrong.

Well Varg didn’t plan to do it. Euronymous made it a fight and Varg was defending himself.

@rustyhacksaw I wouldn’t render it moot. First off I don’t even know what moot means but I assume it means something along the lines of pointless[/reply]

I read Varg’s story. Sounds like total garbage to me. How in the world would Varg know that Euronymous had a knife on his kitchen table when he apparently lives in another part of the country?

Varg, after being attacked, unsucessfully apparently, you’d think he would of just left the appartment. By Varg’s own admission Euronymous ran like a coward, yet Varg “gave chase, stabbed him”. After it was obvious that Euronymous was clearly not a threat any longer. If indeed this Euronymous was out to kill Varg, and that may well be true, why not simply call the police and avoid the whole situation? But no, Varg had to go do a “pre-emptive strike.” Varg’s words, not mine. Hardly self defense.

Apparently, Mr. Vikernes, escaped prision in 2003 and was captured in a stolen vehicle with
G3 automatic rifle (fantastic firearm btw.), a handgun, numerous large knives, a gas mask, camouflage clothing, a laptop, a compass, a Global Positioning System, various maps and a fake passport. This does not exactly give credance to his story of murdering Euronymous.[/reply]

You have a point with him just staying around but he only delivered the final blow when Euronymous attacked him again after he had said the fights’ over. And he probably saw the kitchen knife. He’s been sticking by the same story for years. Why would he still go off of some kind of alibi now after all these years. My guess for not calling the police would be the old ghetto code of don’t snitch.

As far as the escape from prison Idk how to explain that one. I never knew what he was found with in the car til now