Permawar chat

Discussion
1

I am going to lose some major “rep” for deviating from music-related topics, but screw it…

What are your feelings, o ye Prongs faithful, on the current spate of Middle Eastern wars?

As I’m sure many of you are aware, the man who campaigned for U.S. president in 2008 and eventually won on the back of a perceived ‘anti-war’ stance (and who is a Nobel Peace Laureate) has gone all “retro” on us and re-booted the war in Iraq. As if it ever ended anyway, but he was at least trying to maintain this illusion since 2011.

Same Commander-in-Chief has also very amusingly “condemned” Israel for bombing scores of starving children in schools and U.N. hospitals, while, uh, continuing to sell them all the weapons they use to do so.

Since I know we have a full smorgasbord of political inclinations here - anybody out there care to either justify or make sense of these actions for me?

I also never check Jourgensen’s Facebook, but am curious if he’s had anything at all to say on this subject.

2

I haven’t been following all the details of the latest, but I had very similar thoughts as you did, Tomasz. I kind of scratched my head when I saw that he’d ordered strikes on Iraq . . . Huh, that’s weird. I thought he was supposed to be our hero for getting us OUT of there. Then that same evening or maybe a day or so later I’m flipping through the channels and I see the headline blurb stating something like . . . “White House says they cannot provide a timeline for Iraq campaign”. Wow, no kiddin’. The Democrats, including Obama, were such ballbusters about two things when Dubya was in office . . . . getting out of Iraq . . . getting a timeline for completion of our missions.

Such baloney.

3

Democrats always have to show they’re pro-war or else the opposition paints them as pacifist pussies. It doesn’t help there are indeed a lot of hawks in the party; Obama’s main objection to Iraq wasn’t that it was wrong so much as it took focus off Afghanistan.

4

From what i can tell from passing headlines it looks like Israel started it this time. Hard to scream self defense when you’ve actively engaged the other side without provocation

5

DESTROY ISIS.

Americans are in that shitty position of being damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

6

You know who would have done a good job stopping ISIS?

Saddam Hussein.

7

It’s true actually. Hussein was a ruthless prick, but boy did he keep things in line. He was guilty of things, but he was a dictator after all. He actually made sure a lot of what occurred there now didn’t hit the papers.

As far as anything pertaining to the Middle East, how can you stop a war that has no end? Like one of you said, damned if we do damned if we don’t.

8

I’m too busy thinking about the warzone my city has become the last few days. Heading down to the Ferguson police department to protest after work.

10

Fuck the U.N. too. Nothing but a bunch of corrupt whinny assholes. May a bullet find all those members as well.

The UN. Thats that organization of countries set up so that hitler never happens again? Of course they need a bullet.

11

I’m too busy thinking about the warzone my city has become the last few days. Heading down to the Ferguson police department to protest after work.

Be careful out there. Watching the news and it’s getting ugly.

12

You know who would have done a good job stopping ISIS?

Saddam Hussein.

My words exactly, sometimes it takes a crazy motherfucker to keep to a nation of crazy motherfuckers in check or off with their head, I say, off with their fawking head!

13

[reply]You know who would have done a good job stopping ISIS?

Saddam Hussein.

My words exactly, sometimes it takes a crazy motherfucker to keep to a nation of crazy motherfuckers in check or off with their head, I say, off with their fawking head![/reply]

This is simplified, but pretty brilliant.

So much of the garbage that we get involved in is us idiot Americans thinking that we can ram American idiocy into anything as a cure all. Nope. They’re different countries with different histories, religions, sensibilities, etc.

I just roll my eyes when we have some mission to “give them democracy”, “give them freedom”, “give them . . .”

We’re appalled that women can’t just wear tube tops and miniskirts down the streets of Kuwait. We’re appalled that women are expected to wear proper covering in the mosques. We’re appalled . . . . well at just about everything. And, why? BECAUSE WE ARE IDIOTS.

We like to come up with plans based on what WE would want, but typically fail to understand that that doesn’t mean squat elsewhere.

So, yeah, we stick our ding ding in the hornet’s nest and get stung and all the bees hate us. Big. Friggin’. Surprise.

And then what? Well, we either walk away with our tail between our legs . . . “Sorry, y’all. We tried. Sorry we made everything worse!” Or we keep throwing crap at the wall, hoping something will stick. Eventually, there’s just a bunch of crap everywhere.

YAAAAAAAYYYYYY!!! FREEEEEEDDDOOOMMM!!!

14

I’m too busy thinking about the warzone my city has become the last few days. Heading down to the Ferguson police department to protest after work.

How much has it spread? My wife and I are planning a road trip, and St. Louis is supposed to be one of our stops. Do I have to break it to her that it’s not like the Judy Garland musical?

15

This has been the best source of information on the ground since the initial riot started. One of our friends started it, actually. He’s a goddamn hero.

http://www.reddit.com/live/tdrph3y49ftn

There is lots of information out there. I urge everyone to stare directly into the sun on this one.

16

Basically it is completely fucking insane. Big military troop transports with police logos, machine guns everywhere, tear gas after tear gas after tear gas, rubber bullets, WOODEN bullets, LRAD high frequency sound cannons, even saw pictures of a Active Denial System aka the HEAT RAY. I’ve lived within about 10 miles of where this is happening pretty much my whole life.

17

Tell me this isn’t utterly batshit. I’ve been so furious I can barely function for days.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Ferguson&src=tren&mode=photos

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/08/the-difference-between-ferguson-and-ferguson/375955/

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2014/08/police_in_ferguson_fire_tear_gas_on_protesters_with_hands_up_in_their_own_backyard.php#more

http://theantimedia.org/the-media-conveniently-focuses-on-ferguson-looting-instead-of-rampant-police-state/

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/report-all-arrested-ferguson-looters-were-from-outside-of-ferguson-and-had-criminal-records/

http://m.stltoday.com/news/opinion/columns/the-platform/editorial-governor-must-let-ferguson-be-where-better-begins/article_4a53e231-5b93-58d9-8935-accaf2cd9edd.html?mobile_touch=true

http://www.saintlouiscomments.com/2014/08/ferguson-riots-and-why-everyone-should.html

Rachel Maddow’s take was really really good, it’s long but watch this one for sure:

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/watch/anger-in-ferguson-follows-record-of-racism-317652547718

18

People in Gaza are tweeting tear gas tips at us. For serious.

19

Wow. Stay safe, Brother!

20

This is a pretty amazing scrolling 360 panoramic view from this afternoon. Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention they were tossing flash bangs left and right tonight.

http://m.stltoday.com/news/multimedia/special/panorama-police-block-west-florissant-ave-in-ferguson/html_ac0e710c-83e0-5485-957b-208bf38a4685.html?mobile_touch=true

21

Love DIY protests.