But it’s deliberately misleading. 19 is the oldest teenager, working a job or going to university. It’s the age when you can play the “It’s fine, I’m an adult” card when the relationship is good, and then play the “But I was just a teenager!” card when the relationship goes bad. The age-gap was too much IMO, but her language is implying he’s a child molester and she wasn’t responsible for entering the relationship. She was.
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Yes the journalism surrounding this has been extremely salacious. And cancel culture is more than a boycott. Within two days the manager, label, touring agency, basically his entire platform goes scuttling off. How long before Spotify follows suit? It’s guilty until proven innocent.
I don’t know what the hell the “grooming” thing is supposed to mean. I even saw one article calling him “Trump supporter” 
It’s like “Nazi pedophile racist groomer and Trump supporter Marilyn Manson is accused of raping 10 girls on Instagram. His label and everyone else abandoned him. Oh yeah and he claims he’s innocent …maybe”
It’s eerily reminiscent of the affidavits distributed by the Christian wellness society about how he sacrificed animals and whatnot in his book. Like they would distribute this misinformation about him in the 90s and then collect signatures from “fans” confirming it. Except now this is our mainstream, not some freaky fringe group!
But the problem is he literally write a book in which he bragged about doing the kind of shit he’s being accused of and has also bragged about it in interviews. I think we’re dealing with a bit of column A (a jealous lover) and a lot of column B (a monstrous narcissist who is still out there inflicting pain in some drunken stupor). The combination of these two makes it really hard to position him as some kind of maligned “theatrical character” and champion of free speech or whatever I’d like to position him as because I’m a fan.
I hope “Cancel Culture” eventually goes the way of Puritanism and McCarthyism (which is what it is, with a feminist twist) but I don’t know if this guy is exactly a victim other than to his own sickness which he never got help for.
And for the record @grimmon he did go to rehab for pain pills in 2004/5 and has been spotted at AA meetings so I don’t think this is all a show, he’s tried fleetingly to get help here or there but I think he’s stuck in the character of “Marilyn Manson” and didn’t want to abandon his demons because they make good lyric material. Personally I know he’d be twice as brilliant and probably more relevant had he gotten clean.
SIDE NOTE-I like how this woman (Evan Rachel Wood) has gone from “what’s-her-name” to now being called “Phoebe” by @grmpysmrf
I could see why you think there’s a difference, but for me this is why there is no difference… Celebrities are a commodity. They sell themselves or they sell themselves to other companies that will advertise and sell them.
All Manson’s label did was make a business decision. That’s it. They chose to take manson off the shelves the same way Johnson & Johnson chooses to take talcum powder that has been linked to cancer off the shelves or Toyota recalls 100,000 air bags. That’s it. By keeping him on the shelves they’re hurting their own brand. I don’t think they give fuck one if he’s guilty or innocent. He doesn’t make money for them anymore and even worse he could be a negative revenue So he has got to go. He’s not cancelled he’s boycotted and his label is joining the boycott in order to not affect their profits.
Just my angle.
Yeah, that’s true, but it’s misrepresentation of the situation. The same way that politicians usually misrepresent teen birth rates and single mothers. Teen birth rates also include teens that are 18 and 19 and married but that’s not the effect or the how information is intended to manipulate attitudes.
Yeah, I don’t think so. All those companies are joining the boycott cause they don’t want their profits affected. There’s no difference, in my opinion.
Phoebe was one of the voices that has now drowned out evan rachel wood. check out the headlines or I could link it for you if you want.
I know this doesn’t help any of the topics being discussed, but for some reason, everytime I read the topic title I hear it in my head as “WE ARE CHOWS”.
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I didn’t read all of it because it got repetitive but this just reads like gossip and angry women. Nobody forced that one girl to not sleep or eat for 4 days. All of these women could have left at any time but they chose to stay. If he physically forced them to stay then now they have a false imprisonment charge and should have gone to the police and warned their friends instead of waiting 'til after the fact and swapping “woe is me war stories” forget hashtag me too how about hashtag I’m breaking up with him cause he’s mean or dumb or what ever the fuck or hashtag I’m filing charges?
It really seems like he’s guilty of lying to these women about how charming he and his personality are/were or maybe he was that charming to start with (but things don’t stay like that forever in a relationship) and guilty of off color distasteful jokes/comments.
I mean, jesus, look at this excerpt from that blog.
“He immediately love bombed me - Telling me he felt like he’d known me for years and I felt similarly. He offered me cocaine. He told me to take off all my clothes and take a shower in front of him. … The second time we met he broke a wine glass in a hotel room and demanded we make a blood pact together. He cut both of our hands with the broken glass. Things went from 0-100 at full speed. In the beginning stages of the relationship, he worked kinda magic on me he sent me love songs and told me we were soul mates and introduced me to his father. We would stay up painting each other taking pictures…”
Imagine that, the beginning of the relationship was great. Who would’ve guessed by the cocaine, the shower in front of me and the blood pact?! All the warning signs were there but it’s manson’s fault she went anyway. btw that was just meeting 1 and 2 and yet she stuck around? WTF?! if you continue to read her “evidence” things got bad when she was on tour with him. An “opportunity to see the world” as she put it. Nevermind, she was already humiliated by him, She’ll just go ahead and use him for travel. The fuckng gall!
And the honeymoon phase was over and she couldn’t deal with it. so she’s out to ruin him. That whole page is story after story of each woman (well really only like 4 but it’s done up to look like a lot because much of it is hearsay like “i thought the girl looked young but she was with a roadie!” )
If I want to be completely cynical and sardonic I would accuse these women of never having to work for anything in their life because of their looks and all this is is them being pissed off that relationships are work and nobody but themselves can put that work in. “Oh my god he wasn’t doing everything for me. He didn’t do what i told him to do. He’s such an asshole. I’m gonna ruin him!” The narrative that they have crafted for themselves seems very spoiled and self serving.
What did they expect, as beautiful people, from the guy who wrote the anthem against beautiful people?beautiful people lie to and abuse everyone and now theyre pissed off that they got lied to and “abused” by a fat ugly person? smh
As far as his off color comments… I will say context is everything. For example , I know people who make horrible comments about ethnic groups and minority groups in the privacy of their own home and to anyone who were to over hear them would think they were horrible fucked up people. but the context would be missing for someone over hearing and not in on the joke/comment. They say those things because that’s what horrible fucked up bigots would say. They don’t say that stuff to agree with them but because of how absurdly stupid those people are who hold those opinions. They’re mocking them with their own bigoted words. I believe it’s called “dark arch comedy.” Who knows if that’s what Manson was doing and she intentionally took the comments out of context or if he really holds those opinions.
A lot of these accusations use identical jargon. At least two of these accusations begin with “love bombed”, which after googling, I discover is insta-feminist jargon for . . . when a man is nice to a woman. Being nice to a woman is now considered a form of abuse? They all need to be read with your figurative finger on the skip button, because they weave in and out of accusations of rape/violence, to being a racist/sexist/nazi, to being obsessive/possessive, to in some cases being really nice and romantic (!). Some of these are to be taken seriously, but some aren’t and just bog the testimony down.
But we are not these women’s target audience. Their target audience is not anyone who’s read Manson’s book, or even knew he had a book, or who wants to know about any kid of nuance. Their target audience is young #MeToo insta-followers who wouldn’t know the Spooky Kids from Skinny Puppy. I found myself kind of mentally recoiling when I read these women beginning their testimony by saying they’d never heard of Marilyn Manson. But somehow they end up dating the most infamous shock-rocker by accident, when there are obsessive female Manson fans who would queue up even for his autograph?
If Manson is so into women being submissive and devoted to him, surely he has millions of female fans out there to choose from who are already devoted to him without him even trying. Back in the day he had girls carving his name on their chests, and I’m sure girls like that are still out there. So why is he going for these preppy women who’ve never heard of him? And why are they going for him if his music means nothing to them. If you’re not into Manson’s music then isn’t he just a weird-looking old guy?
These accusations to me are a collision between Manson’s long-standing attitudes to sex and love from the '80s-'90s, with the hashtag culture war of the '10s-'20s that these women are part of but Manson isn’t. My impression is that there is a mix of fact and spin here. The spin comes from I think the modern political landscape where the worst thing you can be is racist, and these girls being ex-lovers. When a woman starts by saying “I’d never heard of Marilyn Manson”, it’s not going to end well. Different planets.
I feel like Manson’s grandfather’s cellar had more impact on him than anyone ever knew, including Manson. I’m being an armchair psychologist I know, but these stories about having a “rape room” send me off on a mental trajectory right back to Jack Warner’s cellar. For those who haven’t read the book or don’t remember, the book opens with Manson as a child exploring his grandfather’s private cellar, where his grandfather used to turn his train set on to disguise the sound of him viewing extreme deviant porn.
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LOVE BOMB!!! That’s a new one to me too. Hilarious. So, yeah, if you’re nice and/or romantic, you’re a “love bomber”, I guess. Or at least, after some chick decides she doesn’t like you. Of course, I’m sure if you don’t do all the love bomb stuff you’ll get painted as an emotionless ogre or something and be just as guilty of abuse.
For any of my homies out there who are either married or dating . . . let me know how things go on Valentine’s Day if you DON’T love bomb your old lady. So dumb.
HA! Someone asked for V Heads thoughts…
Deep!
Like everyones said, " thats Manson…"
She knew what she was doing. The timing. Stupid Rachel Wood.
Just trying to keep her name in the papers. Such a fullonrapist.
People saying they didn’t know who marilyn manson is are total bullshitters. That guy is known and hated/loved worldwide. I have buddies who only listen to R&B and RAP and even they know who Manson is. Eminem raps about him for Christ’s sake!
As far as “he was so nice to me then he changed,” Many men say the same things about their wives/girlfriends. Like I said, spoiled, self serving women who are finding out the hard way that the entire relationship isn’t the fuzzies you felt the first month you were dating. Pretty soon he’s gonna fart in front of you, and that’s when the work begins. A keeper will fart back at you and one you should dismiss will recoil in disgust.
It’s actually funny to read these women’s complaints if you swap out Marilyn Manson for the mailman or the cashier at the grocery store. How special would they feel to be “love bombed” by Reggie the homeless guy when he asks them to do coke with him? Would they stand for a second if Ron the janitor at yoga class said “shower naked in front of me so I can watch.”? I’m sure they’d, #1 have no problem saying NO and LEAVING to quickly complain to management to immediately have him fired, and #2 filing a restraining order and then blasting it out to EVERYONE OF HER FRIENDS about the restraining order because of what a perv Ron the janitor at Yoga is #FireRonTheYogaJanitorPerve.
Well, that’s the difference between a stalker and a romantic…
Are you wealthy or attractive? Yes? You’re advancements are romantic.
Are you ugly or poor. Yes? Now, your advancements make you a stalker.
I heard it so much in high school when I was there. the attractive boyfriends treated the pretty girls like shit all the time and they were so hurt and bothered by it but couldn’t bare to give a nice guy a chance.
What’s worse is nothing has changed. I saw it all the time back when classes were on campus. The girls put up with verbal abuse and probably much more so they can be with the attractive guy but complain to all of their nice lesser attractive male friends about how mean he is but they wouldn’t dream of dating the guy that would treat her the way she wants to be treated because “sorry Jose you just aren’t as attractive Juan.” It’s bullshit and after watching it for 30 years (first as a student and then as faculty) I have no remorse or sympathy for them.
I think Manson is probably capable of being both a gentleman and a monster, depending on the context, whether he’s looking for sex or love, and especially depending if he’s on tour.
I read an interesting interview with the late Zepp Savini. Zepp Savini was Manson’s Personal Tour Assistant from 1994-2001 (ie when Manson was important). It talked about how Manson kind of psyched himself up into a character for shows, that he used to scream and flail at the crew before, during and after. In the DttW video where Manson is swearing about firing the lighting technician while covered in blood, that’s Zepp patiently trying to get his boots off.
Zepp recounts some quite unsavory attitudes about groupies. I mean it’s probably just standard rock star stuff, but I don’t really read about rock stars much. He says his job was to pick out hot girls after every show, and the band would deliberately try to destroy their relationships by inviting girls only and leaving their boyfriends outside waiting and worrying. He laughs about how quickly they ruined strangers’ relationships like this, and then disappeared the next morning to do it again in the next city.
He says Manson didn’t like girls who talked too much, and that that he had to start signing his name on his backstage passes in case he invited a girl who was too ugly or too annoying, so Manson could know who invited her and tell them off. He talks quite openly about creepy orgies. Female fans are chewed-up and spat out. “Disposable Teens” might as well be about his attitude to them. I don’t think Zepp has any axe to grind against Manson other than he thought Manson yelled at him a lot. Zepp eventually quit to pursue a less chaotic life, then married one of the slasher girls, then died of a motorbike accident.
Wow, remind me never to let my daughter date any of you people.
(I don’t have a daughter).
Us?
Look, Manson is an asshole along with a ton of other dudes out there. The problem isn’t necessarily him or any dude being an asshole it’s the fact that women keep giving a dude like them time of of day in the first place. If women stopped paying attention to him and others like him it would force them to change their behavior or come to peace with being alone the rest of their lives. But in Manson’s case he has money, so these women keep gambling that they’re gonna beat him and they don’t and then they get mad that they lost. Pretty telling that a drunk/stoned Manson is smarter than a “of sound mind” actress.
I will raise my daughter (I have one) to ignore fuckers like manson and to not make deals with the devil to get ahead in life/career. I hope I’m able to raise my daughter in a way that would have her walk out on ANY dude who asks her to get naked and take a shower in front of them on their first meeting, whether it’s a celebrity or Ron the Yoga Janitor perve. I hope I will NOT raise her to think that she can get what ever she wants by flashing some boob or giving up some crotch.
Assholes are gonna be, you disable them by not enabling them.
If Manson did something illegal to you file charges and arrest his ass, but being an asshole isn’t illegal. Raise your kids to “Say ‘NO’ then GO and TELL someone,” Not just for strangers but assholes as well.
I think the most important issue is if Manson committed a crime. If he did, than he should be accountable and face the consequences.
Also, there’s no denial that with power comes great irresponsabilities. And particularly men, often use their position and status to abuse women. Sometimes they’re just being assholes, sometimes they’re committing a crime. It’s great that this is finally being addressed and even thought I agree that sometimes there’s disproportionate reactions, the most important is that there’s a positive change and people are getting accountable for their abusive behavior.
I don’t know if in this particular case the girls are being naive or hypocrites, but their claims shouldn’t be easily dismissed. I’m sure that sexual abuse is something very difficult to deal with, and victims are very brave to come forward.
But like someone said, being an asshole is not a crime, and it’s stupid to outcast a person just because he’s a douche. And not speaking of this particular case, I also get pissed with this witch hunt and this pseudo moral social media judgements, and people losing their jobs just because they waved their dicks.
What I mean is that, while I agree with most of what you are saying, lets not forget the real issue here: There’re real women out there, with no voice, being abused and it’s a good thing that this is being addressed.
Just read that Mansons album and streaming sales are way up…nothing like scandal or death to increase your sales…
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Certainly, but they should have their evidence in order before or available at the time of making such claims. So far it’s just character assassination/ (or confirmation, I guess)
Can’t argue with that.
HAHAHA!!! Well, it’s definitely exposure. I’ve seen / heard his name and posts/ articles about him more in the last month than in the prior 10 years combined.