MY GOD THESE LYRICS ARE ABSOLUTE SHIT~!
This may be the first Ministry album I will not buy when it comes out.
To put that into perspective, imagine how stupid Black Sabbath, Zeppelin or Pink Floyd would have looked today if in the early seventies they had put out three freakin’ albums dedicated to Nixon’s involvement in Watergate. Get the picture? No, probably not (who am I kidding?) but there it stands.
funny how they would still be relevant albums though, especially since W is trying to use the same tired argument as Nixon tried with executive priveledge and such. Hell maybe if all of those bands did write albums worth of music that shot at Nixon maybe we wouldn’t be in the bullshit we are in now. perhaps more people would be better informed (whether they agreed with or not) and we wouldn’t have this mass “We didn’t know” excuse although we shouldn’t have it anyway. unless we can’t Learn and listen at the same time then i see your point…you want bouncy empty headed music (which sounds like what you are pushing for) that means nothing then perhaps you should listen to some Dixie chicks, actually surprised you don’t.
Late,
grmpysmrf
<shudders>
Er…yeah. Sorry but these lyrics are embarassing. Not what you would expect from an established and well respected artist. As Jizzwad himself said earlier this ‘childish pap’ is doing him more harm than good. It’s all bark and no bite.
I’m also of the opinion that Al has the right to voice his anger at the current system of politics. I don’t wholeheartedly agree with him but I’ll fight for his right to be able to say that. For example I totally dig NWO, which was, by and large, a political rant (ditto for LAnd Of Rape And Honey). And it worked perfectly. It was hardhitting but subtle and cryptic with clever turn of phrase and left you wanting more. It hinted at the dark underbelly of America’s corrupt political system and it gave plenty of food for thought. But this…this is more like the rantings of an angry teenager. Clumsy, heavy handed diatribes with NONE…ABSOLUTELY NONE of the tact and promise of NWO or Rape And Honey. Hell, this stuff makes Green Day’s ‘American Idiot’ seem like the work of a genius.
And THAT is painful to have to admit!
Hmmm…I tried to listen to Houses Of The Mole last night and tried…TRIED so hard to be convinced. I actually wanted to feel what Al was trying to get through to us. But the music and the message was just numbing and relentless - like being hit with a sledgehammer when a feather would do. It was all ‘Bush Bush Bush …he is evil he is evil he is evil…he is corrupt he is corrupt…the war is wrong the war is wrong’. Yikes!! C’mon Al! We ARE aware of what is happening in the world (YES really)- and most of us (you would think) are capable of making up our OWN minds about current events. But your (inane) way of expressing yourself leaves NO room for thought - no room for individuality. It’s an excercise in futility. And it just seems sad that you are SO convinced of your own righteousness and bravado.
Really sad. What the hell happened??
[mad]
I hate saying this but maybe Al should’ve used some injectable “inspiration” before he picked up his pen this time around. Seriously, those lyrics look horrendous. Sigh.
Yep yep yep. These anti-Bush albums are very lame and boring in my opinion. After Bush has left office, all of these albums will be irrelevent. (Although, one could argue that they never were relevent.) Ministry’s legacy will be reduced to a bunch of juvenile albums about a stupid president. Bush has ruined his career with Iraq. Jourgenson has ruined his career with Bush. Yes, it is definitely fitting that they will be riding off into the sunset together.
Thats it exactly; 2 arseholes riding off together. Al got duped, no two ways about it.
I am not a huge U2 fan but I have to hand it to them for keeping their music and apartheid activist stuff somewhat seperate. I don’t listen to a U2 song a want to yell at them to shut up about Aids & Africa. But, at the same time, U2 actually goes out and tries to actually do things to help the situation.
Alternatively, Ministry now just sings about bad Bush, bad Dick, war is bad and stupid. Yet, they do it in such a childish rant they no one (except maybe 17 yr old boys) takes them seriously.
Funny how Ministry’s motto has been “Think for yourself” for so long but now they want to tell you how you should feel about Bush.
Damn Ministry, just make an educated point and move on and let people think for themselves. “Bush is Evil and his mama is wrinkly. I like to say fuck because it makes me sound tough.” is not exactly a good argument. [Yea, I know that isn’t a real Ministry quote but it’s close enough].
When someone asked me what kind of music I am into, one of the first bands I would mention would be Ministry. I’m a bit embarassed to say that now.
This probably is the best anti “Nu Ministry” post I’ve seen. it’s thought out and makes sense…unlike that of those that bash Ministry using the same boring “pap” that they accuse Al of usinig over and over again.
The point with U2 is well put. However, I think Ministry is more about pointing out the situation rather than having the Ego to think he, himself can do something about it.
Yeah the lyrics look retarded, but then again, we are also reading them out of context. we don’t know how they’ll sound once put to music. For Example, Nearly everyone on the baord Loves Lava from Filth… but if you just read the lyrics with out knowing the music I’m sure many would be saying the same thing about those lyrics cause they are some pretty stupid lyrics (Comparison given aside from the fact that I think Lava Is a Retarded song to begin with but that’s besides the Point)
Late,
grmpysmrf
<shudders>
Er…yeah. Sorry but these lyrics are embarassing. Not what you would expect from an established and well respected artist. As Jizzwad himself said earlier this ‘childish pap’ is doing him more harm than good. It’s all bark and no bite.
I’m also of the opinion that Al has the right to voice his anger at the current system of politics. I don’t wholeheartedly agree with him but I’ll fight for his right to be able to say that. For example I totally dig NWO, which was, by and large, a political rant (ditto for LAnd Of Rape And Honey). And it worked perfectly. It was hardhitting but subtle and cryptic with clever turn of phrase and left you wanting more. It hinted at the dark underbelly of America’s corrupt political system and it gave plenty of food for thought. But this…this is more like the rantings of an angry teenager. Clumsy, heavy handed diatribes with NONE…ABSOLUTELY NONE of the tact and promise of NWO or Rape And Honey. Hell, this stuff makes Green Day’s ‘American Idiot’ seem like the work of a genius.
And THAT is painful to have to admit!
Hmmm…I tried to listen to Houses Of The Mole last night and tried…TRIED so hard to be convinced. I actually wanted to feel what Al was trying to get through to us. But the music and the message was just numbing and relentless - like being hit with a sledgehammer when a feather would do. It was all ‘Bush Bush Bush …he is evil he is evil he is evil…he is corrupt he is corrupt…the war is wrong the war is wrong’. Yikes!! C’mon Al! We ARE aware of what is happening in the world (YES really)- and most of us (you would think) are capable of making up our OWN minds about current events. But your (inane) way of expressing yourself leaves NO room for thought - no room for individuality. It’s an excercise in futility. And it just seems sad that you are SO convinced of your own righteousness and bravado.
Really sad. What the hell happened??
[mad]
I think you are forgetting that we aren’t the only Ministry fans in the world. Your points are perfectly Valid, but only when considering only those here on the board. If Al was making music for just us, I might bitch a little but not much, Since he’s not making music for just us he recognizes that some people need a sledgehammer over and over again. Hell, some people STILL don’t get it after multiple sledge hammer hits, not gonna name any names here on the board…
you know some people just need to bitch with out any real action maybe it’s just his release (maybe I should mention some names here on the board)
Even still, for the most part, I’d say that those here on the board are pretty smart even those I disagree with(mainly because I think they have misunderstood the information and formed their opinions based on that, rather than “daddy thinks that way so I will too!” so there is at least some form of individual thought on their part)so of course being “enlightened” you are going to be bored by the music unless you change your perspective the Music. Don’t listen to it for the message at the very least!
Late,
grmpysmrf
All he ever needed to do was perhaps make two or three really good songs about his stance on the Iraq war and move on - rather than put out twenty shitty sounding ones.
And why should people have to be ‘convinced’ of his point of view? Why can’t they just enjoy the music? ARe you saying that if you don’t agree with what he’s saying that you don’t ‘get it’?? As if his stance is the only stance. I don’t agree with what he’s saying most of the time. But I didn’t form those opinions after listening to a musician!!
All he ever needed to do was perhaps make two or three really good songs about his stance on the Iraq war and move on - rather than put out twenty shitty sounding ones.[/quote]
Yeah if it were just people on the board, but some people seem to need the story told and retold. BTW it’s not just the Iraq war it’s the entire administration it’s about the hypocricy it’s about 9/11 it’s about corruption and GReed it’s about the misuse of the military it’s about the damage it’s done to our society… to roll all of those into Iraq is to fail to see the point of each individual song because you have oversimplified the matter.
And why should people have to be ‘convinced’ of his point of view? Why can’t they just enjoy the music?
Well first off, No one says you can’t just enjoy the music. You can tune lyrics out (SHit I’ve been doing that to the Vocalists from Slash’s Snake Pit for YEARS!) I don’t think he’s insisting that people conform to his point of view… one of the lyrics from Rio grande blood is “Don’t listen to me listen to your head” Well how can you listen to your head if you aren’t aware of the situations that exist. These Albums, to me, aren’t “Follow my point of view” as some people think. It’s more of a HEY wake up!! this is the scenario GET INVOLVED…granted you would think he would want you to be on his “Side” but even still it’s hard to have a discussion about such matters if one isn’t even aware of the topic. So instead of conforming to his point of view LEARN YOURSELF
ARe you saying that if you don’t agree with what he’s saying that you don’t ‘get it’??
Yes and no…Not “you don’t get it as in you are stupid.” But you don’t get it as in this is what he’s trynig to do…Again, you are coming at this as a somewhat informed individual (Not really sure about the level of info you’ve got because you usually stay out of the O.T. politcal threads) so song content is probably pretty boring to you. But how many kids, teenagers are going to pick up the album and learn something because they have been given a name of a politican or a Defense contractor and actually may be inspired to go learn something about it?? I think that is what Al is trying to do…It’s been rumored (or confirmed) that Al Wants to be A Poli Sci teacher at a College Perhaps this is attempt at doing just that. A teacher’s purpose is not to tell you Answers but rather to get you to think. I don’t agree competely with all of his songs but I think that may be the point, just to see how well someone/anyone is paying attention…Challenging what you know or beleive you know, Start a dialogue, and so forth
As if his stance is the only stance.
It’s not and I think that is the Idea. It’s just a catalyst to open the door to start Dialogue about the situation
[quote] I don’t agree with what he’s saying most of the time. But I didn’t form those opinions after listening to a musician!!
That’s great but do you know why you don’t agree or do agree? Have you listened and said, “That is wrong Because…” or were you just sick of the “message” and autmotacically went into “WRONG WRONG WRONG” mode?
Late
grmpysmrf
someone said “all bark, no bite”. so true. you have to be drunk or insane to think that your band’s album will “change people’s opinion on this and that” or “open their eyes” or whatever. face it, the post-92 album sales were low; it’s not like houses or rio are ten times platinum so millions of people will hear that. i mean, come on. ministry: once influential, smart band, now dumb and imitational band.
and if you count rantology and rio dub, wow, that makes like, five anti bush cds. granted, one is a remix album, still has samples of bush. the other is compilation, but - !!! - with “update” mixes which replace and add some new bush crap. whoop de fuckin’ doo.
The lyrics suck dick. They sound like a casualties record.
Ministry/Industrial Music (in general) isn’t known for its lyrics…it’s known for sampling and experimenting. Not sure why everybody’s surprised by Al’s writing. As far as TLS, I’m looking forward to some aggressive in your face Metal.
well, compare nwo to no w. obvious.
i think the “new” revco sucks too, both cds are lame and unlistenable; all i want to see is something in the vein of ministry’s 1995 acoustic perfomance.
someone said “all bark, no bite”. so true. you have to be drunk or insane to think that your band’s album will “change people’s opinion on this and that” or “open their eyes” or whatever.[/quote]
None of what you wrote was really the point I was after. well it is sort of, but there is more straw man in your post than anything, My point was and still is Al is attempting to raise a little awareness rather than really, “Changing anything” per se. It only needs to effect a handful of people not open “EVERYONES eyes.” Not only that, but Al makes music apparently for himself. If He did what others want wouldn’t that make him a sell out?
face it, the post-92 album sales were low; it’s not like houses or rio are ten times platinum so millions of people will hear that.
Millions of people Don’t have to hear that tune. only really enough so where some know about it and start talking to others or getting involved. You don’t have to reach all of the people you get some people interested and the rest spreads. now there is dialogue in the air because one side heard a Ministry song and decided to talk about the subject matter. No mass paradime shift…Not people running wildly in the streets (Runnin’ Runnin’-I love the Circle Jerks version of that song) saying HOLY SHIT! WHO KNEW? Just a conversational interest or just a personal interest. I don’t think He’s trying to save the world He’s more so trying to have a conversation by trying to be witty and Vulgar.
[quote] i mean, come on. ministry: once influential, smart band, now dumb and imitational band…
Once again, mainly for only those on this board.
I dont know of any other ways I can say it.
Late,
grmpysmrf
raising awareness of bush’s idiocy! give me a break, tons of websites are dedicated to that. on every american forum that i’ve read alot of people know that bush is a buffoon already.
besides, ministry isn’t the only band singing about that, don’t you think? whatever he’s doing now - venting his “anger” or trying to make a “revelation” or whatever - it’s not working.
i just don’t see any extraordinarity in his anti-bush trilogy (lyrically or musically) and why everyone says something like “finally someone said it” and praise this banality? “ass clown, you’re going down” - wow. yeah. what the fuck.
Lots of good observations in this thread…
grmpysmrf, I see your point, and kudos for sticking to your guns, but Peligro probably said it best:
“To put that into perspective, imagine how stupid Black Sabbath, Zeppelin or Pink Floyd would have looked today if in the early seventies they had put out three freakin’ albums dedicated to Nixon’s involvement in Watergate.”
Seriously, one album of anti-Bush would’ve been enough…for ANYBODY! I was sick of the guy BEFORE Houses came out. There’s enough websites, articles, parodies, news and critics out there covering Bush. Al could’ve taken his best shot and moved on to something else…for the sake of the fans, at least. I feel like we’re about to get some Rio Grande Blood re-runs this fall. Please, PLEASE let me be wrong.
This is a guy who was always proud of never looking back, and moving forward. This is why we don’t hear Halloween live. This is why a few cities were lucky enough to hear WE Believe performed live 4 years ago. He was always about progression, and changing things up with each new album. Really, he stuck to that until Houses hit. Great album, I still love it, but that was 2004, and by 2005 I was already sick of anything having to do with Bush. Then RGB came along. The change of overall tempo was nice, but the subject matter got old, quick.
I know that RGB isn’t exactly a Houses clone, but Al has confirmed the sameness by calling these final 3 albums a ‘trilogy’. He’s made it clear that these 3 albums are following the same course, and he’s proud of it. So, even if the new album musically sounds completely different, it’s still a third of the freaking Bush Series. But hey, at least it was our President, and not some old news story like Gary Condit, or O.J., right?
The lyrics? Yeah, they’re bad, but I don’t think Al was thinking about quality control while writing them. I think my biggest problem with them (aside from an entry into the Ministry canon titled “The Dick Song”) is that they already sound like songs from the past two albums. Just look at the metre of the lyrics…I can already imagine the music that encompasses them. I realize we’ve never claimed Al to be the quintessential lyricist, but look at the lyrics of “The Dick Song” versus something a little more cerebral, like “Burning Inside”:
Burning Inside
calling a mantra with a blade in the skin
for the demons within
i feel the pain is the death and decay
but the lesson never fades away
too little shadows, turn away
you throw the man through the window pane
another slave and a victim of fate
another lesson in hate
burning inside! burning inside!
(simple melody, but intriguing lyrics)
The Dick Song
He’s starting wars at the drop of a hat………… run run run Cheney’s got a gun
He says he’s certain he’s driving them back
Were almost done
Let’s have another let’s fuck with Iran………. run run run Cheney’s having fun
(ahem)
“Cheney’s got a gun”?! It puts that goddamned Aerosmith song in my head everytime I see it! See, the older songs have a longer shelf life because Al avoids the name-dropping and acute historical references. The lyrics aren’t as plain or ‘in your face’ as “Dick” (or so pedestrian for that matter). Take “Just Like You”, where Al says, “The 1980s was run by a person who’s crazy…”. No Reagan or Ollie North references (deja vu, didn’t I mention that somewhere else?), so that song stands the test of time better (dated drum hits aside). Who knows, maybe Al was a Reagan fan back in those days? These final 3 albums really will become a product of their era as time goes by, and not in a good way. Relevance and impact will be diminished. Does 242’s “Funkhadafi” still make you want to bomb Libya today? Probably not. Seriously, what would you think of Dark Side Of The Moon, Wish You Were Here, and Animals if they were all about Nixon, Haldeman, Ehrlichman, etc.? If the music was the same, great, but pepper the lyrics with name-drops and “I am not a crook” samples, and you have 30-year-old cousins to the Bush Trilogy.
I realize we’re judging only song titles, lyrics, and a press release, but I think the overall concern and criticism is certainly justified.
1002
^
Thankyou and goodnite.
p.s email that one to Mr & Mrs J
[reply] Well how can you listen to your head if you aren’t aware of the situations that exist. These Albums, to me, aren’t “Follow my point of view” as some people think. It’s more of a HEY wake up!! this is the scenario GET INVOLVED…[/quote]
Not aware of the situation?? A useful point for someone living in a cave in the Himalayas for the past 10 years perhaps.
As he said, all the guy ever needed to one was make one or two REALLY great songs about the topic and move on! A REALLY great song would have had people talking and discussing - hell, it could have posibly even reached people outside the existing Ministry fanbase. But three FREAKIN’ albums on the subject!! It’s beyond a joke to think that this guy has virtually NOTHING else to say - no other inspiration! Surely there is something else going in his life somewhere that he can dig up for a half decent tune.
And anyway, the way he puts these ideas across is just childish - idiotic even. It comes across as thuggish and crude with virtually no hint of wit or anything intelligent. It’s just plain dull. There’s nothing to sink yr teeth into. Hell, some of my fave tunes ever are ‘political’ (eg Draft Morning by The Byrds) and they have made me think about what the artist was trying to say - so I have no probs in that regard that wasn’t my original beef.
Anyway, what’s done is done. All you do now is sit back and watch and wait.
Imy opinion, NWO and Hero sums up the last 2 records. I agree with ths ones who say that 2 or 3 songs on the topic should have been enough.