check this theory out…(Snipped from wikipedia)
The philosopher Nick Bostrom investigated the possibility that we may be living in a simulation.[1] A simplified version of his argument proceeds as such:
i. It is possible that a civilization could create a computer simulation which contains individuals with artificial intelligence.
ii. Such a civilization would likely run many—say billions—of these simulations (just for fun; for research, etc.)
iii. A simulated individual inside the simulation wouldn’t necessarily know that it’s inside a simulation—it’s just going about its daily business in what it considers to be the “real world.”
Then the ultimate question is—if one accepts that theses 1, 2, and 3 are at least possible, which of the following is more likely?
a. We are the one civilization which develops AI simulations and happens not to be in one itself? Or,
b. We are one of the many (billions) of simulations that has run? (Remember point iii.)
Man that’s fun to ponder!!what’s more likey? we are the first of the species to come up with an AI simulation or we are one of the AI simulations!!
Late,
grmpysmrf
Sounds to me like someone has been reading waay too much like Douglas Adams. I, being only one of the minutely intelligient species known as man, whom thinks (for some egocentric reason) that he is the center of the universe and smarter than everything else that could even POSSIBLY be intelligient in this universe, refuse to believe that we are a simulation made by some other civilization. I don’t care of they are mice or Vogons or dolphins or whatever.
I seriously doubt that ANY civilization with true intelligience would create a “simulated reality” where the inhabitants had AI to learn anything.
First off - If they are that smart then they already can compute what alternative actions and behaviour would result in. Secondly, AI eventually realizes that it is AI, which immediately makes it just I. At the point where ANY creature, or matter for that fact, becomes aware of it’s own intelligience and the ability it has to create it’s own decisions and so influence the course of the world around itself it is no longer artificial intelligience at all. This is one of the fundamental reasons people are so ancy about making “robots” or “androids” with AI. It’s not so much that they would be smarter or better than us. It’s the fact that we would be giving birth to another species that would eventually either completely co-exist with us equally (which goes against human nature for if we created it we must be it’s master and they our slave as the sociological order of our species dictates) or they would wipe us out by becoming “better” than us.
I mean. I guess the point is it could be interesting to ponder on these kinds of things but I really don’t see the point because any civilization that is that advanced would have already learned (and most likely through trial and error) that these kind of actions can result only in catastrophe for the initiators of the test, the creations which were created as they will ultimately have “less intelligience” than the originators to begin with and so make crucial mistakes to themselves and anything around them.
Bah. You made me rant and not even have much of a point. I hate you sometimes grump, LOL.
Bah. You made me rant and not even have much of a point. I hate you sometimes grump, LOL.
Peace!
Krowe
[:)] LOL
you held your own pretty good! decent points! Not saying we are a sim, just fun to think about! btw, I liked specifically your points about creator and master birthing a new species… not sure if I agree, but certainly an interesting angle!
Late,
grmpysmrf
I far prefer the ideas of Jean Baudrillard ie. that due to first the rise of mechanical reproduction and then the emergence of mass media, reality has steadily been replaced by a simulation in the human consciousness. And now that we perceive the simulacrum as reality, the ‘original’ reality no longer exists.
Those dunderhead Wachowski brothers were apparently influenced by this theory while making the Matrix movies.
There is a book by Iain M. Banks… I believe it’s called THE ALGEBRAIST… where everyone believes that they themselves live in the simulation, and when everyone realizes it, everyone will wake up. Let the proselytizing begin.
Holy Shit!! Bow down to you good sir! I absolutely adore this sociologist. I used to use him for everything in my soci. classes. Marx and Weber, I thought, were boring but Baudrillard brought a unique view on things. Glad someone else knows of him!!
Late,
grmpysmrf
There is a book by Iain M. Banks… I believe it’s called THE ALGEBRAIST… where everyone believes that they themselves live in the simulation, and when everyone realizes it, everyone will wake up. Let the proselytizing begin.
I wonder if that is a take on “Plato’s Cave.”
Late,
grmpysmrf
This is something I tend to think about a lot, and it’s always a surefire way to induce insomnia. When I was very, very young, I had an exceptionally vivid dream where I found myself lying in a room alongside people I knew, and they were all strapped to weird machines and had thick, black tubing coming out of their eyesockets. I woke up and was literally frightened to sleep for weeks.
Needless to say, first time I saw “The Matrix,” I was completely headfucked.
what i find interesting, is how all “theorists” never think that people from other planets may be behind us in technology. everyone is always thinking they’re ahead of us.
When I was very, very young, I had an exceptionally vivid dream where I found myself lying in a room alongside people I knew, and they were all strapped to weird machines and had thick, black tubing coming out of their eyesockets.
sounds like something out of a H.R Giger painting.
Late,
grmpysmrf
what i find interesting, is how all “theorists” never think that people from other planets may be behind us in technology. everyone is always thinking they’re ahead of us.
I don’t think theorists think this… BUT they are only thinking about the ones that are in front of us because slower civilizations are of no help to us… My theory is that we are somewhere in the middle…just, with all of that space out there, It’s hard to believe we are the farthest along or the farthest behind. So of course we would speculate about those in front of us.
Late,
grmpysmrf
There ain’t no difference between a internal linkflying saucer and a time machine. People get so hung up on specifics. They miss out on seeing the whole thing. Take South America for example. In South America thousands of people go missing every year. Nobody knows where they internal linkgo. They just like disappear. But if you think about it for a minute, you realize something. There had to be a internal linktime when there was no people. Right?
Well where did all these people come from? hmmm? I’ll tell you where. The future. Where did all these people disappear to? hmmm?
The past. And how did they get there?
Flying saucers. Which are really? Yeah you got it. Time machines. I think a lot about this kind of stuff. I do my best thinking on the bus. That’s how come I don’t drive, see?
I find it curious that some philosophers and theorists are so hell bent on thinking about some kind of Cartesian demon (be it outside civilizations, the government, robots, gremlins, dolphins, whatever) controlling the simulation of reality we live, while it is far more reasonable we are the authors of this simulation ourselves. It is a well known notion in psycho-analysis that we see the reality we perceive is a symbolic one (ie. Lacan’s the Symbolic) while the Real is outside our reach. Makes me wonder how much of this is fuelled by good old paranoia. Might also be a metaphorical way of commenting on how the mass media are perceived to control the way we see reality (which is another notion contested by for example Chomsky and Herman).
It would be very arrogant of us Earthlings to conclude that we are the only intelligent life form in the vast universe.
We need to invent new propulsion/power source(s) and discover the methods that allow us to travel to distant worlds within our lifetime or extend our lifetime (humanoids) to use the methods and sources we already have.
There is so much we still do not know yet: It was thought that the Milky Way did not have a black hole at its center until fairly recently.
Perhaps they can rework that particle smasher they made in sweden to work as an engine to move us at 99.99% the speed of light.
I was thinking the problem with light speed travel is how do you steer to keep from hitting random asteroids? some asteroids are as big as small panets!!
Late,
grmpysmrf
A.I. and simulating human life via a tangible object vs a hologram or CGI.
At least with large objects the crew can see them coming from miles away and they can plan for the appropriate delta velocity burns well in advance of a potential impact.
In space travel, something as small as a paint fleck can be deadly if it impacts a critical, non-fault tolerant surface on the spacecraft.
In space travel, something as small as a paint fleck can be deadly if it impacts a critical, non-fault tolerant surface on the spacecraft.
No shit! that’s the kinda stuff I forgot to mention in my last point… How do you avoid space particles? as well as those cosmic rays (I think they’re called) that make swiss cheese out of an astronaut’s brain if they stay in space too long? Astronauts have described it as a bright flash seen within their head and apparently the phenomenom has been confirmed by other astronauts.
Late,
grmpysmrf