Had a visit from a girl whom I had not seen for years the other night - a very dear, close friend who saw me through some tough times.
We sat around, well into the small hours, drinking and smoking and reminiscing about the good old days and laughing our asses off. I’ve got the cd jukebox on in the background set to ‘random play’, blasting out our favourite tunes- and suddenly ‘So What’ starts up.
On hearing this, my friend sits up suddenly and exclaims “Oh, this is Ministry right?” I say, yeah and asks if she’s a fan. She gives me this look and goes into this lengthy diatribe about how she used to date this famous musician (I won’t say who…no names sorry…but trust me, he’s VERY FAMOUS!) when she was living in the states and how her boyfriend and some of her close friends knew this Jourgenson fellow, whom they had described to her as a “notorious scumbag”.
I already knew that she was dating this particular musician, but I ask her what does she mean regarding Jourgenson and she tells me how she has heard him described as a complete train wreck of a person and that it was “well known” that he “ruined” Ministry by selling out their name, cashing in on nu-metal and turning Ministry into kiddy metal thrash punk shit and how he’d “ripped off” the musicians he’d worked with including Paul Barker and Rey Washam and that nobody who knew him had a good word to say about the guy.
She says that apparently he is one of the most shifty, most devious businessmen on the planet - someone who would stab you in the back and leave you for dead after you had just helped him achieve a gold record. Apparently he is “totally despised and something of a sad joke”.
She also said that she got dragged along to a gig on Ministry’s final tour and said it was utterly appalling. She described it as nothing more than a slap in the face to the long time fans and that people were walking out in droves and hurling abuse. Al barely even sung and stood there looking bored, and then ended the night with a drunken version of ‘What A Wonderful World’, tripping over a microphone lead twice in the process. Even the band members looked pissed off with him. One guy actually stormed off stage never to return!
There you go - no big revelations there. Just thought I’d share my little converstaion to anyone who cares aboutt hat sort of thing.
See, it’s not just people on this forum that bitch about the band.
The other day my friend told me that water is wet. I thought I would share that with you.
How wet did he tell you it is?
I think Al did sell out Ministry’s name (shifted fan base, merchandising increase using new “edgy” logos, more conventional heavy metal direction easily categorised) but he did start it so you could argue he is entitled to sell out Ministry. He’s not entitled to treat people like shit though.
I don’t mind others (esp. non prongs people) giving Al shit because outside this circle and apart from those who worked with him, he doesn’t receive much criticism for being a dick or for ruining his own band.
I don’t really have to do better because you haven’t overturned anything I said. It could be argued that Ministry sold out with LORAH (Reznor even thinks so) or with Psalm69 etc. on the basis of a new direction that resulted in more sales. But LORAH and to a lesser extent Psalm69 were fresh and received well (and are still popular today). Coming into mid 00s harking back to heavy/speed metal is completely stale and boring but will of course appeal to a contingent who look for the same old instant kicks (not to insult the few who did enjoy bits of HOTM). But regardless thats not even relevant as the point was post Barker Ministry was a more obvious attempt to cash in.
As to the logo point. It fucking obvious. The Ministry/anarchy logo. And all the lame anti-bush images with guns and $ signs all the over the place.
What’s more correct to say is Al tried to sell out… but he failed.
Yeah, I disagree with him “selling out” or whatever. You may not like it, but, it’s not like the Bush trilogy’s style put him on Top of the Pops.
As for treating former band members/employees poorly, yeah, he does that. You can hear guys who used to be in NIN or Marilyn Manson or Kiss or any number of other bands tell similar stories. Sometimes charismatic frontmen are jerks.
Now, if you want to say Al is a “scumbag” because he’s a skeezy middle-aged burnout drunk, I might be inclined to agree.
I don’t think he’s a ‘sellout’ as such - however, as time wore on his music/image/creativity became watered down and rehashed to the point it was no longer interesting. Personally I hated the ‘nu’ direction. Does that make him a sellout? Doubt it. I just choose not to buy into it.
In his old age, he just became like the ‘wacky’ old wino uncle - y’know the one that gets up at kids parties and drunkenly makes balloon animals and sings karaoke. The kids all laugh - but the mature adults all collectively roll their eyes and hope to god it doesn’t get out of hand.
I think the Bush trilogy was fucking stupid. I could go on about it and on about it all day - still doesn’t make him a sellout though in my book. Just boring.
As for the way he treats his bandmates, I hope they all go on to bigger and better things. Heaven knows, if the ‘Christmas Song’ is any indication of where he’s headed, I should think his ex-bandmates would now feel somewhat vindicated.
I guess its down to interpretation of “selling out”. I would classify selling out as not necessarily having to sell out to another entity, with the case of Al he tried to sell out to himself. “Selling out” in the literal sense connotes, as you’ve referred to, directing one’s energy to produce something in line with the wishes of a financier. In this case I’ve applied the term more loosely in that the changes he brought about since '04 are characteristic of a band selling out, jumping on the back of a popular bandwagon (Bush is evil) and churning out as much Bush related material as he could in 3/4 years. No corporate comp. benfited from Nu-Ministry or told him what to do (this is just a presumption of course) but he still “sold out” in ways. He changed the band for an easier $. He sold out Ministry, figuratively speaking, if you prefer.
Al may not sell out to another agent because he couldn’t fuck them around as much.
martini definitely has a bigger pudgier english grade face after years of the brew. he was on a non alcohol version for a short time. still got the cheeks.
I could not give a shit about whether or not my favourite musician was a total dog or not
Why? Because I’m not jerking off over him while listening to the music. (getting jerked off, however, is another story).
Anyway, if I wanted a soap opera, I’d watch “The Big Bang Theory” (you CANNOT convince me that is anything remotely resembling a ‘sitcom’, let alone ‘humorous’), or if I wanted to pick and choose sides, I’d watch a game of tiddlywinks.
Now, unless Al starts molesting kids, or gets a nosejob, or gets subjugated by Joe Jackson, or gets put on ice when he dies, or buys the elephant man’s remains, or sleeps in an oxygen tank, or fucks Debbie Rowe, or borrows some random sperm to make more kids, or sells Bubble’s ass for extra cash,
I think it’s all a bit harsh on the old fart to judge him for a bit of innuendo.
I just wish him and Paul would start fucking each other again. It’s really silly. (I use this analogy because… well, remember the ‘it’s like a marriage quote’ they both ripped straight after the break up when it was relatively amicable…?).
How the fuck is releasing 3 anti-Bush albums when the old fanbase is screaming foul “selling out”? Or not playing any of the old hits at the fairwell show because he was sick to death of them.
If anything he was saying fuck you to the “old industrial guard”…
The whole “Psalm 23” concept with ‘Houses of the Mole’ did seem like a cash-in rehashing and trying to cash in on the ‘Psalm 69’ steam a decade too late.
But the follow ups to that were more alienating to the fanbase than more post-punk Industrial Metal stuff like on ‘Animositisomina’ would have been.
If anything I think he went thrash/butt rock and did that cheesey ‘Cover Up’ shit because it was just what he wanted to do, for better or worse…
And I could give a rat’s ass about what a dick the guy may have been. The fact remains people love to bitch but without that core guy being an asshole, hyping the band and demanding results from the guys around him, there is no “Ministry” brand name for anyone to rally behind.
Anyway, if I wanted a soap opera, I’d watch “The Big Bang Theory” (you CANNOT convince me that is anything remotely resembling a ‘sitcom’, let alone ‘humorous’)…
Yeah, to be honest I can’t stand the Bush trilogy - I mean, I don’t even have a passing curiosity when it comes to those albums.
You could argue that it’s not selling out, but definitely a dumbing down as such to cater for a younger audience (ie the Korn, Slipknot, Disturbed, Metal Hammer reading fanbase). He sucked all the ‘artsiness’ and air of mystery out of the band in its last few years and changed tack with a new silly logo and hammy artwork and a dumb punk approach to songwriting.
“Sikk duuuuude!!! Ministry are awesome!! Yeah rockonrockonrockon!!!”
Then there was the band image - suddenly it’s all WhiteZombie meet Motorhead tough guy biker bullshit. And that fucken Sin guy looks like he should be playing bass for Motley Crue. I dunno, maybe I’m just old and jaded. And sleepy.
You could argue that it’s not selling out, but definitely a dumbing down as such to cater for a younger audience (ie the Korn, Slipknot, Disturbed, Metal Hammer reading fanbase). He sucked all the ‘artsiness’ and air of mystery out of the band in its last few years and changed tack with a new silly logo and hammy artwork and a dumb punk approach to songwriting.
Agreed.
Ministry has always been a political band… well, not completely. Sort of like Revco in the beginning, the songs were liable to be about anything.
Religion. Politics. Hatred…
whatever it was, it wasn’t so one dimensional and childish, given the fact they were all linked by the common thread;
[u]an assertion against control.[/u]
Which is the very ethos the industrial aesthetic was based upon, if you look as far back as the Naked Lunch.
[reply] And that fucken Sin guy looks like he should be playing bass for Motley Crue.[reply]
[:)][laugh][laugh][;)] True hahaha!
Al’s just been there done that. Probably still has some talent hidden deep inside, but he’s a grandpa now so yeah. He needs to focus on signing bands that are worth at least a second of your time.
You could argue that it’s not selling out, but definitely a dumbing down as such to cater for a younger audience (ie the Korn, Slipknot, Disturbed, Metal Hammer reading fanbase).
He did a pretty good job catering for the youngsters because there were a friggin HEAP of really young folk with Ministry shirts on at the final tour in Glasgow…I was very surprised indeed.
