It's interesting....

Discussion
1

Well here we all are on a Ministry website (one of the oldest if not the oldest).

And yet the apparent animosity towards Ministry is one of the most extreme I’ve ever seen.

I see Ministry slagged here all the time, and have for quite awhile (and despite my infrequency of posting, I’m one of the oldest members here…I’ve been here for a long long time).

In any regard, what got me was I throw up a review/my thoughts on the Last Sucker, and despite my thoughts being a FAR cry from the album being anything like the greatest thing since sliced bread, even that gets ripped by some people. As if I had just ran off and said that Ministry just made the greatest thing in the world.

Did I like it? Yeah I did.
Has there been a Ministry album I haven’t liked?
Nope.
There’s been a few I thought were just O.K. (pretty much Filth on through Animos), but none that I didn’t like.
Would I bother continuing to follow them if I didn’t like them?
No…simply put, it wouldn’t make sense.

So I’ve seen some here that literally have gone as far to say that Ministry hasn’t done anything worthwhile since Twitch.
Considering one has to hit back over two decades before they reach that album, my question is, “Why are you still listening to them and why are you here?”

I’ve seen a few that seem to think nothing past Mind was any good. Well, it’s less than two decades, but it’s coming up on two decades time…again “Why are you still listening to them and why are you here?”

I mean one person ripped me because I went as high as a 3.5 out of 5 on Last Sucker…denouncing that it deserved a 1.5 out of 5.

Oddly, the amount of bands out there that I’ve heard that I think are that crappy is pretty darn low. Part of the reason is I’m not going to go listen to bands that I think are that bad. Secondly because well…
Damn…
really, I’m pretty much scrapping the bottom of the barrel to get that low.
I HATE Linkin Park, HATE THEM, can’t say they’ve even done an album I’d give a 1.5 to though (they’d at least get 2s to 2.5s).
In fact, most pop music I’d end up given at least a 2 to.

I mean something that is going to hit a 1 with me would probably be something along the lines of William Hung. Something that truly is just complete and total utter crap any way you cut it. That literally, even it’s selling point lingers on actually how pitifully bad it is (it’s something to laugh at).
Most garage bands I’ve heard (outside of the midschool student types that just picked up instruments a week ago) have hit above a 1 on my scale.

So I mean if you really find Ministry that bad…
I’d recommend
A. You leave here (and you should have long ago)
B. STOP LISTENING TO THEM

2

I still like Ministry. True the last few albums haven’t been exactly my thing, but there’s some good on there as well. All the slagging does get boring after a while. I do kind of miss the days when there was more discussion on some of the older stuff.

3

well said.
late,
grmpysmrf

4

welcome to the internet [:P]

It seems that any band forum is just a place to bag the latest releases because they are not as “underground” or innovative as something released 10 years ago. Anyway… I still like ministry, the 2 songs I have heard of TLS are growing on me.

Oh wait thats not right.

Oh god, I wish they would get Barker back, Al sucks, he like does stuff that he wants and stuff… I hate Ministry. How about if Revco reformed without al, it would be like 1989 again, awesome. TLS = Rubbish

5

the thing in ministry was that the albums were always different from each other. they don’t have to be revolutionary or underground. animositisomina wasn’t innovative or anything, and it was a great album. the last three records were just like you know, houses of the mole and then two carbon copies of it that just had different guitar tones. the theme is the same. listening to houses of the mole, i get sick of hearing bush samples on the 3th-4rd track already…

surely, ministry were on warner bros label in the old times and had a great supply of different samples (not necessarily speeches, also sound fx, imagine scarecrow without the crows and the screeching, it would be boring), right now samples are superexpensive, and ministry is sort of self-managed “independant” band right now, but i think the albums were oversaturated with bush sample collages. another element was the atmosphere, something weird, urban and disturbing, that was lost in the ministry records from 2004 onwards.

i remember reading the ministry chatlogs couple years ago before the rantology and rio grande blood releases and al said something like “i’m doing remixes now, kickass stuff, more bush bashing” and “you’ll like the new album, it’s harder, faster and has more bush samples”. it turned into a joke. listening to the bush trilogy is sort of like watching the “rush hour” trilogy.

the good thing about the last sucker is that they finally got the bass back and the high frequencies won’t pierce your ears and you don’t have to set your equalizer setting to “”. so i agree with mark prindle, who said in his rio grande blood review: “now - without thinking about it all, start playing a thrash song now! hear that? that’s half the songs on this album!”.

maybe writing fast and making albums quick resulted in pale quality and bland content, music-wise. i don’t really care for bush thing. it would be great if he released one much better album instead of these three and then actually record his long loooong long lost buck satan album.

6

Actually, i’d say afra was pretty clear in another thread regarding the board that it wasn’t just limited to ‘Ministry’ anymore.

And I’ll post my review (posted at avalanchers originally) in your other thread covering why the new LP isn’t all that.

-E

7

I’ve always said here that one of the aspects of this board I enjoy most is the brutal honesty that comes out of some of the posts. It’s something to appreciate, really. I think it’s ok to say “Ministry’s last great album was…”, because it establishes your personal feelings about the band’s best moments. That’s always said in retrospect, too. I’ve liked and followed Ministry their whole career, and anticipated every forthcoming release to the end. Sometimes I was impressed, sometimes I was disappointed, but I still supported the band regardless. I could be one of the guilty parties who thinks that after Mind, it all went slowly downhill. But I wouldn’t have known better had I stopped listening back then.

Ministry intrigued me enough to stick around every year, because I thought the potential always existed for something special every time Al cut a record. I pretty much hate 99% of Dark Side, but it was never enough for me to say, “ok, now I hate these guys and am done with them”. Even after being disappointed by that record and tour, I had faith enough to hope for something better the next time around. So, while the last two albums (along with Ministry’s ugly portrayed image) ultimately disappointed me, I still waited and hoped, discovered the good and the bad songs, and moved on like I always have.

Sometimes the passion and harsh feelings can be misconstrued here. It’s not so much slagging and Ministry-hating, as it is venting frustrations and speaking minds. I like that the sugar-coating is left at the door. I don’t think we’re any less Ministry fans than the people at PA. Maybe PA gets the ‘fanboy’ rep, because Al and Angie post there, and people are less apt to want to offend? Or maybe that collective is just more positive, excited, and into modern-day Ministry than some of us finnicky bastards over here? I think that most of the posters here who have ever been down on Ministry, or harshly criticized their music, has also given praise or positive reviews at some point. Not many of us signed up to just bag on Ministry from Day 1. Just a thought (albeit long-winded).

1002

8

Dear 23 -

After pondering your post I must say that I concur with Mr. Tenohtwo.

Whether or not you like this or that respective Ministry album or period I think the fan response on this board is a testament to the creativity and versatility of Ministry as a band and as an artistic statement. While I see where you are coming from emotionally I think your general premise is logically very flawed.

Your argument that one should simply leave this message board is about as valid as an argument that one should leave the country if one does not agree with the administration in charge. I despise the Bush administration, but does that mean I should simply leave the country and shut up if I’m not happy with the way things are being run? Fawk no, I love the United States and by trying to change the way things are through the traditional political process or by means other than terrorism is MORE patriotic than simply sitting by and accepting the way things are.

Perhaps that was a bad analogy, the United States is (in theory) a Democratic Republic while Ministry is more akin to a dictatorship run by Al (which is fine, it’s his baby). We have no say in what Al does with Ministry, but just about all of us who are critical of Ministry do so because we have a deep emotional connection growing up with not only the music but the album artwork, band logos, videos and imagery associated with the Ministry franchise. To me, when I see the new M/anarchy/peace symbol logo and hear the newer music and the videos associated with the post-Paul Ministry it doesn’t jive with the feelings, emotions and imagery that older Ministry does for me. If this new album invokes good things for you than thats great, thats the power of art is that it affects us all differently.

Now I know Al has absolutely no obligations to me or anyone else, he’s going to do whatever he wants with his baby and I can’t stop him, but is that going to stop me from venting on a MINISTRY message board? Hell no!!! And why not?

  1. I feel the need to vent. I am seriously THAT dissapointed in the newer Ministry.
  2. I want some kind of affirmation that I am not crazy, that I am not the only one who feels this way!

Now I will admit there are a couple people on this site who seem to go out of their way to be extremely negative, almost to the point of trolling. Those people are in the minority. Most of the people on the board who are bitching do it out of some kind of bittersweet love for the band or for reasons similar to my own I would imagine.

Now don’t get me wrong I’m very happy you enjoy the album. I loved David Lynch’s latest flick “INLAND EMPIRE” but many of his fans hated it, so I know how you feel and where you are coming from. But in all honesty your argument that the complainers should leave is moot at best.

As Stairwell said “Welcome to the internet”. Message boards are what they are and you have to take what you don’t like as well as what you do.

I mean honestly, would you rather have a forum with a bunch of fanboy yes-men waiting in line to give Al a rim-job, groveling at his feet and begging him to take their hard earned cash, gobbling up anything he excretes without any sort of critical discussion? If so, check out that other forum, I believe it’s called “Piss Army” or somethinglikethat [:P]

9

Yeah, is there a way to block posts from certain users? 'Cause that would help a lot.

10

al doesn’t like to spoonfeed anything to anyone?

what??
I guess she hasn’t heard the last 3 albums?

11

For the record, I think some misunderstood what I was saying.

I wasn’t saying “DON’T CRITICIZE MINISTRY”.
In fact, as I’ve noted here in the past, I didn’t particularly care for pretty much everything from Filth Pig on to Animos.
Didn’t hate it, but didn’t like it either.

That said, I’ll still hold to that it doesn’t make sense to me to be hang on a website made for a band that one doesn’t like.

For example, I love Metallica’s first 3 albums. Ride The Lightning, Kell Em All, And Justice For All…simply pure gems in my eyes. The Black album I never liked. It had a couple moments for me, but in general, I didn’t like it and in turn never bought it. Load I liked even less, and again, never purchased it.
Before Load had even come around, I was done with Metallica. Still loved those first three albums, but had no interest in going to concerts of theres or anything else. Like I said, the notion of hanging around things directly related to the band never even occurred to me because I didn’t like the band. They simply weren’t in my mind. Those three albums were, but on a “here and now” the band was out of my mind.

And that’s what I mean, despite thinking the first 3 albums absolute gems, it didn’t take me a decade or two to figure out Metallica had elected to head in a musical direction I really didn’t care for.
Do I hate Metallica for that?
No.
Do I have any reason to hang around things related to Metallica going on about how I think every thing they’ve done since And Justice has been close to utter shite?
No.

I’ve heard some voice that pretty much they view Ministry the same way I do Metallica…they’ve just taken more time to come to their view point on Ministry than I did with Metallica. A LOT MORE TIME at times in fact.

I’ve never been all that active in Piss Army despite having joined up with it during it’s birthing. Why? Well, in general, it seems to me that Al could fart and the people there would tell him it smells like Roses. It was way to obsessive in there for me…it’s like an internet gang of groupies.

This place I became more of a lurker on partially due to a drop down in activity here, but also because this place more and more became little more than the polar opposite of Piss Army.

Obsessive people that think anything Ministry does is divine creation on the one hand.
Obsessive people that think Ministry is shite on the other.

And yes, it’s Obsessive people on both ends from where I stand. I mean Piss Army speaks for itself, I don’t think I need to explain anything there. In fact, I’m not even sure why Miss J would ask for view points in there as that’s sort of like going into Yankee stadium during a Yankee game and asking the fans if they think Yankees are a great team.

On this end, you have a bunch of people that pretty much hate Ministry, but due to one, or two, maybe even 3 albums that managed to catch their fancy a good deal, CAN’T LET THEM GO and continue to follow them much more closely than the typical person would. I mean, that in and of itself is a form of obsession as far as I’m concerned.

Now I’m not speaking of everyone here, nor of everyone in Piss Army, I’m just speaking in generalities here.

Do I think the people in Piss Army are being honest in their view points?
I really have no reason not to. It’s not like there are a billion and one people in Piss Army that are truly active, so having a small minority that truly have loved everything J has done isn’t exactly unlikely. Yeah, I can believe they, for whatever reason, truly believe that everything J does is golden.

Do I think people in here are honest in their view points?
Again, I have no reason to think they aren’t. The only part that doesn’t make sense to me here is why the continued following. Like I said, I can only best liken it to me continuing to closely follow Metallica about two decades after they had last done something I actually liked…I haven’t done that, and I can’t figure out a reason as to why I would have.

12

For the record, I think this was Al…
speaking honestly…
To Piss Ants
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_j_jueZJ-Y

I mean it’s not like it’s hard to catch his sarcasm.

Now I do music myself, and how do I feel about my own work?
Honestly, more like Al seems to in this lil piece than often let on.
That’s not to say that I don’t care about the work I do, as that is anything but the case. But that is to say when it comes to marketing it and other such things, well…lets just say there’s a reason why I don’t manage myself.
My girl (oddly like Al) happens to be my primary manager now, and really, whenever she gets to talking to me about actual business crap, that’s a lot of what my attitude is like. So long as it’s not stepping on the feet of my artistic integrity (what I’m doing musically or where that music is going), I really don’t care…my typical attitude is sort of “Yeah…think that will get them to give me money?”

Now, it’s not her main role, but put me in the studio, working with other musicians that I respect, and my care and attention total flips. I’m all heart and sincerity at that point.

At least to me, that video screams “Al isn’t all that interested in the marketing side of things”…I can almost here him thinking outloud during that lil video bit “God this is retarded…can I get back in the studio now?”

13

For the For example, I love Metallica’s first 3 albums. Ride The Lightning, Kell Em All, And Justice For All…simply pure gems in my eyes.

you forgot Master of Puppets. =)

14

[reply]For the For example, I love Metallica’s first 3 albums. Ride The Lightning, Kell Em All, And Justice For All…simply pure gems in my eyes.

you forgot Master of Puppets. =)[/reply]

I MOST CERTAINLY DID…
make that 4 albums.

15

HIGH IQS!!![/quote]

it’s only funny cause she was including t you.
But you showed her you laughed in her face when she called you smart.
Way to go champ. don’t worry we all still know the truth

[quote]Women really do suck the life blood outta men…they can’t think (evidence above) they can only feel. Most are emotionally corrupt to the max. Trust me.

to bad you will never feel a women, so we really can’t take your word for it.
you are STILL annoying! perhaps now that UF has sent a precedent with the hilarious tazing event we will all get a charge at your TAZING event . I hope it’s televised

16

ahahhaahahah!!!

Ay, yo - check out this bit of genius from Missus Jay’s last post…!

“The packaging was made w/ you guys in mind b/c you love to dig pretty deep into things, and so, we give you an adventure for the next little while. You know Al doesn’t like to spoonfeed anything to anyone, he likes people to think for themselves, so for the next little while…c’mon Pissants!!! Let’s hear it…of all the fan sites out their, we pride ourselves in knowing our Piss army is filled w/ a lot of high IQs…”

DOESN’T LIKE TO SPOONFEED PEOPLE?!?!?!!?

Then what the hell is this Bush trilogy?? WHERE exactly are his rants open to interpretation?? It’s the most hamfisted, lopsided, immature political grandstanding in the history of ‘heavy music’. There’s no room for thought. ‘Bush is evil…his government is corrupt…’ over and over and over. Even the cover art is anti Republican propaganda.

Who does this woman (The Ministry Mouthpiece) think she’s kidding??

17

[reply]ahahhaahahah!!!

Ay, yo - check out this bit of genius from Missus Jay’s last post…!

“The packaging was made w/ you guys in mind b/c you love to dig pretty deep into things, and so, we give you an adventure for the next little while. You know Al doesn’t like to spoonfeed anything to anyone, he likes people to think for themselves, so for the next little while…c’mon Pissants!!! Let’s hear it…of all the fan sites out their, we pride ourselves in knowing our Piss army is filled w/ a lot of high IQs…”

DOESN’T LIKE TO SPOONFEED PEOPLE?!?!?!!?

Then what the hell is this Bush trilogy?? WHERE exactly are his rants open to interpretation?? It’s the most hamfisted, lopsided, immature political grandstanding in the history of ‘heavy music’. There’s no room for thought. ‘Bush is evil…his government is corrupt…’ over and over and over. Even the cover art is anti Republican propaganda.

Who does this woman (The Ministry Mouthpiece) think she’s kidding??[/reply]

Yes.

18

I’ve lurked on here for a long time, I’m interested in all of your opinions and many of them I agree on.
What I don’t agree with is the way you guys are so quick to slam the Piss Army…FYI it’s not all ‘yes’ men, many opinions are aired over there good and bad.

People say what they think over there, not all of it good.

I guess I’m just disappointed reading all of this animosity towards another site.
The one thing we don’t do over there is constantly bitch about you all as you do us.

It’s just wrong.

19

Oh, I did. I’ve totally slagged off both places over the years.

Now here I am, posting at both again. Hooray for diversity. [laugh]

20

I’ve lurked on here for a long time, I’m interested in all of your opinions and many of them I agree on.
What I don’t agree with is the way you guys are so quick to slam the Piss Army…FYI it’s not all ‘yes’ men, many opinions are aired over there good and bad.

People say what they think over there, not all of it good.

I guess I’m just disappointed reading all of this animosity towards another site.
The one thing we don’t do over there is constantly bitch about you all as you do us.

It’s just wrong.

If you’ve lurked for even a second here you know what people think.
Late,
grmpysmrf