Hmm, am wondering if people in the US knew of the Health Care Bill they passed a few days ago and what their opinion of it is.
Here is one view:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/ct-oped-0325-goldberg-20100325,0,2341988.column
Not happy with it, especially if it is really what it seems it is. We all have to buy insurance now like its car insurance? That’s bullshit cause the sick industry is now poised to make even more $ off of america. Damn shame!
Late,
Grmpysmrf
That looks kind of ghastly.
You know if the U.S. political scene wasn’t so polarized a better package could have been drawn up. But these stupid fucking Republicans turn their backs and resort to desparate measures (OOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH ABORTION!) and the Democrats make these concessions (even though they didn’t need to, they had the numbers). This bill turns into a partisan battle. Now I’ve no problem seeing the Republicans as they stand today being decimated but it’s not as if the other guys are shining beacons of a bright future either.
On a side note I had to drop health insurance this year cos I can’t afford it. America aint the only country with fucked up healthcare. You can take solace in that if you want.
Fuck the insurance companies. Period. So many people have died because of them. So instead of gradually shutting down those leeches like we should, it’s going to end up becoming mandatory to throw them money. And not only that, but they toss more cash their way.
I’m all for reform. But is this truly the way to go?
as chris rock said “when wasthe last time they ever cured anything? polio? the money is in the treatment. not in the cure” or something like that. if things were getting cured and fixed then maybe these high prices would be justified, but all they do is prolong illness.
Could anyone explain to me, in a clear fashion, what the health care used to be and what it is now in the US?
This is not a joke, I simply don’t know, I’ve never been to the US. I see all these people now saying all kinds of shit about ObamaCare etc. and I’d like to be clued in.
I’d appreciate just a list of facts about what it is now and what it used to be, without any criticism thrown in.
Well basically… Not many people could afford health insurance, so those people would be screwed if they got sick. Some people who DO have health insurance and had some serious illness would have been declined if they were ill before they applied for the insurance, leaving them in a pretty “grave” situation. The insurance companies were pretty “selective” on what they would pay for and what they wouldn’t. If your illness was pre-existing and you would die if they didn’t help you, they’d still not help you. Some pretty callous fuckers.
Plus the price of even going to the doctor is outrageous enough. Hell, for me it was a 15 dollar deposit before seeing the doctor, a small bill somewhere around 20 bucks, then another one for about or over a hundred. Plus some prescriptions aren’t exactly cheap either. The more useful prescriptions would make someone go in some serious debt, especially if you’re uninsured. A girl from work paid 200 on just a single prescription, and that’s WITH insurance.
so…?
Health insurance used to be expensive and now its not? What changed and what was the state before the change? I’m still not getting any information…
Very simply the basic problem with U.S. healthcare before this bill was that not everyone could get coverage because the insurance industry is a capitalist enterprise. Now it’s obligatory for everyone to have health insurance, government enforced. I don’t see why the gov. (if they really cared) couldn’t rally to whip the insurance companies into line and make them treat the disadvantaged more fairly with a law that makes it illegal to make big profits off people’s health or somthing, idk.
And what’s this I hear, the bill has to get voted on again after a successful challenge in the Senate?
[reply]Very simply the basic problem with U.S. healthcare before this bill was that not everyone could get coverage because the insurance industry is a capitalist enterprise. Now it’s obligatory for everyone to have health insurance, government enforced. I don’t see why the gov. (if they really cared) couldn’t rally to whip the insurance companies into line and make them treat the disadvantaged more fairly with a law that makes it illegal to make big profits off people’s health or somthing, idk.
And what’s this I hear, the bill has to get voted on again after a successful challenge in the Senate?
That is not true. There are multiple, non profit health insurance companies in the U.S. For what it’s worth, the average, for profit, health insurance provider has a profit margin of approximately 6% give or take.
HAHAHAHA WHo told you this? You’re off by about 30%!!! I read an expose on it about how if Vegas(casinos) makes more than 18% they will be fined because the odds are skewed more than that of regulated chance. then they contrasted it with the Health industry’s take. which was nearly doubled! basically showing that the profit margin in Vegas is less than that of the health industry, which is ridiculous considering people go to vegas knowing the odds are stacked against them!
I’ve got more to write/respond but i have to ge back to work but I needed to stamp that little bit of misinofrmation out! 6% HA! Yeah right!
Late,
grmpysmrf
Let’s see your source.
I’ve found others that state about 3.3% doing some simple googling or even less. Here is one from Emory University - http://www.emorywheel.com/detail.php?n=28214
Again, I don’t exactly know how they arrived at their conclusion but I am very certain health insurance companies do not have a margin of 18% net after expenses and taxes. There is almost no industry I can think that prints money like that except the government. If any business could make that kind of net margins, they’d have pretty much instaneous competition.
I’m not defending insurance companies but to say they make 18% profit margin is simply not true.
Yeah they don’t make 18% profit. After operating costs and expenses they make 36% profit!
I’ll try to find you the source but right now I can only sporadically pop in here.
Late,
grmpysmrf
http://insurance.finchannel.com/Main_News/Insurance/60014_Standard_Life_net_profit_jumps_/
Well here’s a 13% -16% from an insurance company I’ve never heard of.
Just google insurance profit percentage.
Late,
grmpysmrf
so…?
Health insurance used to be expensive and now its not? What changed and what was the state before the change? I’m still not getting any information…
The quick answer:
Old health care=Employer pays the most of your costs which is no big deal because they get it at a reduced rate for bringing insurance companies a customer base. which means you pay an amount out of your check every month but no where near as much as if you didn’t have a job with benefits. BUT
didn’t matter you were paying your premiums, (the money that comes out of your check every month for health insurance) health insurance could deny you coverage if they so chose/decided you didn’t fit within the pre-determined coverage.
New health coverage= health care costs are supposed to go down because now everyone has to buy health insurance BUT the companies are no longer allowed to deny coverage.
THE LONG ANSWER…
Basically, the only way any person could get health insurance for themselves or their family was to have a decent paying job with a company with that had a profit margin that was large enough that made it mandatory for the company t take of their work force.
Those jobs have seriously gone by the way side because corporations are gobbling everything up and shipping jobs over seas where the labor is cheaper. (an they are no longer required to provider health insurance for their work force)
What this means is that those people that used to work for companies that gave them benefits from their work are no longing employing these people. SO that means the only jobs left are remedial jobs that adults have to compete with High school kids for (fast food Associate at some department store) Since the companies are left are still kind of Big (think your Mcdonalds, your burger kings) they must provide health care, BUT ONLY TO FULL TIME EMPLOYEES. so what happens is these work sites hire a shit load of people and nobody is full time and so nobody is entitled to health benefits. the worker can purchase health care from their job site if they are not full time but it is going to be expensive.
Health care is so ridiculously expensive to pay for it out of your own pocket, that people can’t afford it and rely on their job to provide benefits based on the coverage that the company selects.
because a company brings a large client base they get a break on rates for being a business and tax incentives and what not, but non of that stuff exists for individual health care purchasers.
In order to have health care for the past 30 years you’ve needed a solid job or be independently wealthy. but as you have seen most recently with the US at being at 10% unemployment not many people are employed anymore, which means no health care. since they are not employed this means they are probably not independently wealthy which means NO health care.
The second part of this problem. Even the people that have insurance through their jobs are still getting screwed because insurance companies would not hold up their end of the bargain and when somebody who had been paying their premiums every months for 30 years finally gets sick, the insurance will make some B.S. up about how they lied on their Health app in order to kick them off of the Heal insurance. People can’t afford the lawyers to fight the multiple lawyers that health insurance companies have.
So for an average worker with a good job going into old age they have probably been paying premiums for 30 years now in order the have health care when they needed it.
So consequently many people have paid quite a bit of money to the insurance companies for a long time expecting to be taken care of when they need help, and the insurance company ultimately says “NO.”
so what has happened is that the insurance company has siphoned off part of your check for the past 30 some odd years on the promise that they will pay for your surgery, meds, etc, but they do not give anything back. SO, you’ve basically gotten ripped off on a monthly basis for however long you have had insurance. not a bad job; collect money every month and your only job is to figure out how to not have to do your job!
The way I understand this new bill is that insurance companies will no longer be able to decline to pay/cover patients/customers. BUT the kicker is that EVERYONE has to buy their own insurance (if they don’t get it from their employer) the idea is that since everyone has to now carry insurance is the price of insurance will go down and be affordable to everyone but the sad thing is, is what’s affordable everyone may not actually be “affordable to everyone”
I don’t like the fact that people are being forced to buy insurance. but i like even less that insurance are able to decline care to people.
as far as a “government take over” with health care, get your head out of your ass ,and stop repeating these stupid Tea Party people. these people have the education of a walnut and have no problem letting everyone else know that they’re stupid! don’t be one of them.
If this is a “government take over” I’ll take it over the crap that is done by irresponsible to companies.
A company is responsible to it’s profit margin. a very small narrow populace.Tthe government is responsible for the health and common welfare of it’s people. IF the government were to stand by and let the Insurance companies continue like this then the government wouldn’t be doing it’s job, because Insurance comapanies are destroying the health and common welfare of it’s citizens. not only give me government oversight any day because it’s easier to change your government than it is a CEO.
When was the last time you got to vote on the employment of a CEO of Nike? oh that’s right you didn’t. so give me the government over a corporation any day. I can get somebody in the government that will represent me, where as that will never happen in a corporation.
As far as competition breeding lower prices! HAHAHAHA maybe in some instance but for health care NEVER. especially if it’s something that is required. what incentive is their for companies to lower their prices if people HAVE to buy their product? Look at gasoline everybody hates gas companies but they are still in business because Americans need their fuel, so Gas companies can charge whatever they want and they do!
Ultimately this bill is bad because Repubs threw a tantrum about single payer health care and the dems, like they alway do, CRACKED like the losers that Repub call them! I wish people would wake up and realize that repubs have even less of the public’s interests in mind than the dems do! At leas the Dems pretend to try!
Late,
grmpysmrf
Standard Life is life insurance/pension capital management company, and it doesn’t operate in the U.S. You also need to spend a little more time reading the financial statement. I believe you are looking at gross margins which do not take into acount taxes and other costs.
Here is another article in the National Review on Well Point in your home state of California. http://healthcare.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Zjk3MGMyMzdhMjkxMDBmZjI4OGFhMzRjYjc1MTQ1ZTA=
And another from U.S. News.
http://www.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2009/08/25/why-health-insurers-make-lousy-villains.html
Yet another from the Washington Times.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/12/improve-profit-margins/
There is no way a for profit health insurance company has a profit margin of 36% net after expenses and taxes. In fact there almost no business’ on the planet that has those types of margins sustainably. High margins attract more competition, not less. Competition also drives down costs for consumers.
Get rid of the 50 state insurance “cartels” and have insurance companies sell across state lines. You will see costs drop. Both Dems and Repubs defend that aburd system at times. Why? Who knows but they probably get their pockets filled by lobbyists.
Again, I’m not defending the health care industry, it certainly has it’s problems but at least deal with reality.
Now if care to argue that executive compensation at health care companies is excessive then you probably have a leg to stand on. Of course you can say that about most companies.
Anyway, I very sure you will disagree with me no matter what I can provide, so I am going to agree to disagree with you on this.
I’ll spend some time tonight looking for that article. You certainly have your info in order where as I do not and I know that is sloppy. so far now I guess you win.
EDIT
you know it might have been in SICKO
Late,
grmpysmrf
That Sicko movie was shit. It ended up being a promotional film about Cuba. I haven’t seen his most recent one but I’m in no rush to.
That Sicko movie was shit. It ended up being a promotional film about Cuba. I haven’t seen his most recent one but I’m in no rush to.
I don’t think it was a promotional video for cuba at all. I think it was a “hey U.S. you talk so much head about Cuba and were how we’re so great yet Cuba takes better care of their citizens” if that’s a commercial then so be it. But I didn’t take it like that at all.
besides the cuba portion, the first 2/3 of that movie was spot on, you can’t argue with any of that info.
Late,
grmpysmrf
What’s with the silly name calling grmp? No need to be hostile.
Silly name calling? What do you mean I didn’t call you any names did I? Or were you referring to the walnut remark?
I didn’t mean anything directly at you. other than dfon’t fall for that nonsense. Although I am hostile (but not towards you) I’m sick to death of these tea partiers. they are dumb, that’s not silly name calling, that’s legit. DUMB! They have no idea what’s going on around them, they have no idea how to conduct themselves in society. I’m all for demonstrations but when it’s something that continues to keep intact something that is destroying our social fabric I get pissed. and the fact that news outlets are giving these people attention after attention makes me mad!
these are all of the same types of people that would be demonstrating against desegregation, and the fact they they are given a voice night after night on the news is disgusting!
As far as being able to vote for management, you basically can if you are a shareholder of that company.
Yeah, uh huh, how often do you run into that? Do Corporations give a damn about the citizens? nope! they care about their consumers. it’s the government’s job to care about all it’s citizens not just the ones that appeal to them. again, why I trust the government more than I would a Corporation, because I can change a government or at least participate, that ain’t happening at nike or wally world.
although this off topic cause I believe i said “when was the last time anyone got to vote for the ceo of Nike.” the point being that you’d probably be hard pressed to find some commoner that has done so. Not very hard to find some that has helped unelect a government politician
Buy stock and you can vote. You can even submit proposals to vote on such things as executive compensation during proxy time.
First off, not all people are in the $ boat to be able buy stock(now your’re overtly promoting an aristocracy; money gets your voice heard and lets you rule that’s not very democratic) Second off, just because you’re a stock holder doesn’t mean you get to vote with board of directors and what not. many times you have to have a certain % of stock before you’re even recognized. other wise many of these multinational companies that literally have millions of investors would have to recognize every single one of them at hearings and they are not going to do that.
It’s really pretty straightforward. 1 share=1 vote.
that’s misleading in that I have 500 shares, so I trump you’re one vote 500 times.
Late,
grmpysmrf
[reply]
that’s misleading in that I have 500 shares, so I trump you’re one vote 500 times.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Nothing is misleading. 1 share = 1 vote. If you have 500 shares you have 500 votes. It’s completely straightforward.
No you don’t get to vote with the board, but you do get to vote who makes up the board.
[/reply]
Not really though, if you only have one share. I suppose if you vote with the majority, yes. but otherwise not at all. and again, the parallel to a democracy is dismal. nobody’s vote should be worth more because they have more money, another drawback of corporations
If you want to go in front of NIKE management or any public company, you are more than welcome to, during the annual shareholder meeting. They must recogonize you, and you have a right to speak and rant if you so desire. People do it all the time. The only caveat is that you must hold at least 1 share of common stock.
I guess my beef is that it doesn’t carry as much weight as voting does. and the fact that you have to wait for the stock holders meeting… hell you can petition your government any time. RECALL
There is no need to be hostile toward anyone simply because you don’t agree with their view point. You can’t deny facts and the truth. I suppose you can but it doesn’t make much sense.
can’t deny facts and truth? Tea partiers are doing in small masses and are garnering great attention for it even going so far to destroy government building and threaten democratically elected officials with death…
Besides, I don’t think it’s a matter of agreeing disagreeing. I think it’s more sense/common sense or educated/not educated. I don’t throw my education around at people (at least I’d like to think that I don’t) but when the things these people are saying and doing are just blatantly wrong, and for the most part their dear leaders are uneducated drug addicts (limbaugh and beck) or just uneducated (hannity), I have a serious problem with it.
You can ignore and tune out angry ranting. I’m sure the Tea Partiers disagree with you as much as you disagree with them. It’s all good my man. The world would be a boring place if everyone thought exactly alike.
Oh I agree, we don’t need to all think exactly like me or anyone else, but some sort of normal reality would be nice and the fact that reality is now up for debate with these people is angering.
It’s to hard to ignore these people when they are turning violent. you wouldn’t ignore a rattlesnake in your living room.
In regards to seeing people night after night on the news, I’m pretty fed up with Obama, Pelosi, Barney Frank, Richard Shelby and pretty much all of congress disgusts me. But they have a right to be on the tube as much as anyone else.
If I may be so bold to go off topic, Why? I seem to have a fondness for Mr. Frank I think he’s a straight shooter and the fact that he is no nonsense about telling these tea partiers (when they approach him) that they are off the deep end is repectable.
I don’t think either of us is going to change the others mind on this, but it’s what makes the world an interesting place.
It’s nice to know why we all think the way we do though, find out where the other is coming from and and been shown when the other is wrong… for example, you showed me that the Insurance Companies have a profit margin of 8% I know I have seen that that number is substantially higher but I can’t find hide nor hair of the story so I’m gonna retract my 36% and say I’m wrong you are right in that point (until I can prove otherwise- what I’m not going to do is walk around still spouting that info or demonstrate on the strength of that nugget that I can’t prove… Unlike the pea partiers! +1 to me for being a better person, than those people)
I have no problems with you and I respect you more for you thinking the way you do because you have a reason (and you know what that reason is) for believing what you do. I hate those people that just spout talking points and when challenged have no depth.
It’s far more interesting talking to someone that has different vision than you and finding just where the differences are and being able to handle it if your vision is shown to be skewed by the other person. (i know that is kinda wordy and awkward but hopefully you get my meaning).
Rest assured though when I find the 36% story I’ll be posting it! [:)]
Late,
grmpysmrf