Ethics of Lockerbie bomber release

Background to the Lockerbie bombing case (the worst terrorist act on British soil in history):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103

The only man convicted of the crime, Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi, has been released from his life sentence on compassionate grounds as he is dying from prostate cancer. He returned to his native Libya yesterday:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8213352.stm

It’s sad to see he got a “heros welcome”, that there is such ignorance in Libya, but my question is do you think it’s ok to release a terrorist such as Al Megrahi on compassionate grounds despite the levity of his crime? Hillary Clinton poked her nose into the affair a few days ago and asked the Scottish judiciary not release him. I have a feeling this may have triggered a “fuck you, I wont do what you tell me” attitude.

Personally I think he should not have been released. There is no valid reason in my book to release him, terminally ill or not. He’s responsible (though most likely not solely) for the deaths of well over 200 people. Let him rot.

Then there is the hard line that many want to keep up, internationally, with dealing with terrorists.

personally, i think it’s fucking appalling. a relative of one of the victims asked why he was being shown mercy when none of those killed were. valid point. plus, it’s not just about the ‘terrorist’, it’s about everything he stands for. his whole cause has been let off the hook, validated almost. the hero’s welcome proves that, surely? what sort of message is it sending out to other potential martyrs for the cause? it’s pathetic, political correctness gone mad. he was given life, and as soon as it looks like his sentence might actually come true, it gets changed. where’s the logic in that? it’s absolutely fucking pathetic. how many other countries bow to this sort of pressure ffs?

We in Scotland think it’s a good thing.

Islam owes us one now.

It’s obvious the guy had fuck all to do with this attrocitie and for all the folk screaming “oh we’ll never know what happened now!”…well they were never going to find out anyway!!!

Justice is about rehabilitation NOT retribution.

The guy is on his last legs and we’ve done a mercyful and kind thing just before Ramadan.

Also as Scotland is part of the West, Islam will think maybe we do have a tiny bit of decency within us.

oops

Far as I know, Luis Posada Carriles is still walking free and clear in the United States despite bombing a Cuban airliner, which killed 73, and several other terrorist acts.

Far as I know, Luis Posada Carriles is still walking free and clear in the United States despite bombing a Cuban airliner, which killed 73, and several other terrorist acts.

Exactly.

Plenty of other cases we could point to as well.

I mean it fucking sucks all those people died that night over Lockerbie but the fact of the matter is we’re never going to get to the bottom of it.

Yeah we could have kept him in prison until he died even though chances are he was innocent (alot of the victims relatives believe this to be the case by the way) but by doing this there was something positive to come out of this whole mess that we’ll never get to the bottom of. That positive I speak of was mercy upon someone who is about to die in the near future anyway.

Obviously this event will ALWAYS divide people.

Islam owes us one now.

Justice is about rehabilitation NOT retribution.

While “Islam” didn’t commit the act in the first place you can’t expect the fundies that did to give a kind turn for the release of Al Megrahi. They have a gameplan and are not looking for a halfway house. They’ll always have plenty of other examples of which to pick from that they feel will justify blowing up people.

I feel his release is prioritising him over the victims, this is often the case in Britain and Ireland where crims often don’t serve their full sentences for a number of daft reasons. Al Megrahi may not have been the mastermind but he was involved and was accordingly punished but his early release undermines the justice system. Has he ever expressed remorse for what he helped bring about? He served 8 years and got a hero’s welcome. That will be inferred as a form of martyrdom or heroism. Other fundies will look to this and say what a joke these guys are. The fundies don’t care about dying because of the shite they believe. To me his early release just makes a mockery of the justice system in Britain and insults the victim’s relatives.

[reply]Islam owes us one now.

Justice is about rehabilitation NOT retribution.

While “Islam” didn’t commit the act in the first place you can’t expect the fundies that did to give a kind turn for the release of Al Megrahi. They have a gameplan and are not looking for a halfway house. [/reply]

Yep.
We (the US) supported the Afghan Mujahideen in kicking out the commies in the '80s, and look how they repaid us.

Other fundies will look to this and say what a joke these guys are.

Well to be fair we (the West) are a joke.

All of the Western justice systems are a joke by the way. Infact all the worlds justice systems are always going to be anything but perfect.

Yep.
We (the US) supported the Afghan Mujahideen in kicking out the commies in the '80s, and look how they repaid us.

Yeah…with friends like that who needs enemies right.

What an intelligent lot you prongers are (seeing that we’re in agreement…[;)])…

I’m not sure who owes the West or Scotland anything for releasing al-Megrahi…all I know is it seems like the right thing to do. Our justice system is reactive by nature…but really…what good does that do? It doesn’t really change a thing. As long as people are willing to give their lives for causes they believe in…no form of punishment, capital or otherwise, will ever deter them.

If you’re one of those hellbent on vengeance, I guess that doesn’t make any sense to you. But in the big picture, we must consider every case separately, and do what is right and reasonable.

i’m a total hardass about this, without apologies.this guy is no different from any other defendant. he should have stayed in prison. and died there.

I was going to start a thread with Connelly’s name as the title, asking him what he thought of that situation.

he was given life, and as soon as it looks like his sentence might actually come true, it gets changed.

This is an excellent point!

We in Scotland think it’s a good thing.

I would hope so, otherwise what reason is their to release him?

Islam owes us one now.

Ha! you’re delusional if you think Islam is gonna send you some kind of thank you card! But I respect the sentiment… to which I’ll explain in a minute

Justice is about rehabilitation NOT retribution.

I completely agree, but was that guy rehabillitated? He was found guilty. Nothing came around to suggest/prove that he was innocnet. Just because he gets cancer doesn’t mean he’s now innocent.

The guy is on his last legs and we’ve done a mercyful and kind thing just before Ramadan.

This is where I agree but only to a degree. By showing compassion you certainly are better than he is/was. By standing firm and making him stay in jail (given his situation) you are showing NO compassion and that is ultimately what put that guy in jail to begin with; NO COMPASSION. By showing compassion you are letting the world know that you are better than that guy.

Here’s where I disagree, THREE (3) months!!! really? THREE (3) Months!!! didn’t that little kid that Michael Jackson sucked off only have three months left? and he’s still alive! I’m thinking a month at the most generous 1-2 weeks at the most sensible. that still would be showing compassion with out giving the guy a lifetime of time before he kicks off. what kind of damage can that guy do in three months? probably quite a bit!

Also as Scotland is part of the West, Islam will think maybe we do have a tiny bit of decency within us.

They may ignore you (Scotland) specifically for a while but they’ll forget or not care cause you are “infidels”
Late,
grmpysmrf

It’s sad to see he got a “heros welcome”, that there is such ignorance in Libya, but my question is do you think it’s ok to release a terrorist such as Al Megrahi on compassionate grounds despite the levity of his crime? Hillary Clinton poked her nose into the affair a few days ago and asked the Scottish judiciary not release him. I have a feeling this may have triggered a “fuck you, I wont do what you tell me” attitude.

While it’s tempting to consider this from a wholly ethical and compassionate viewpoint, it’s sort of ironic that the majority of the people who take that stance are objective observers. It’s very easy for people to adopt that set of values when they have no personal interest in the situation.

Personally, I believe freedom is too good for this man, but insofar as if he were to be incarcerated, all care should’ve been taken to ensure a wholly humane and ethical incarceration period… to incarcerate him without contact with his family would be breaching that. But, I believe the notion of him being able to end his life as a free man is an insult to each one of the victims.

We could go on for a three page discourse as to whether or not terrorists are justified, whether or not it’s a legitimate form of warfare, etc etc… but the bottom line is, terrorists are defined by their complete disregard for the ‘rules of war’, which have essentially revolved around the notions of combat instilled by the Roman Empire (however, even THAT wasn’t without its abberations). In disregarding this ‘code’, they willingly attack civilians and off duty soldiers.

Defenseless people, essentially. In a calculated and uncompromising manner.

Indeed, it could very well be argued that Scotland has made a noble attempt at diplomatic discourse with such a recalcitrant nation. Indeed, Gaddafi has made recent inroads toward dealing with the west, but you can never be certain with these nations. For now, they are to be dealt with at arms length. Such an act by Scotland, as far as I can see it, has only served to compromise their sovereignty.

But,

Toot…

We in Scotland think it’s a good thing.

Islam owes us one now.

If the general consensus in Scotland is that, so be it. You make a good point about justice being about rehabilitation, not retribution. But, the reality is, this man deserves as good as he got. He denied other people life, yet has the opportunity to die on his own terms.

Can’t really reconcile that.

And besides, ‘Islam owes us now’…

There’s a shitload of problems with that statement. I don’t even know if yer being tongue in cheek or not. Even if you were, it goes to show the massive problem with the Western approach to terrorist acts. We instantly associate these terrorist groups with the tenets of Islam, when the reality is nearly all of them are self interested to the extent of often contradicting the very ideals for which they claim to be founded upon. By blatantly and universally associating these groups with Islam, the West has made this mistake for decades and it’s hurt them. So it’s been refreshing to see Obama make inroads towards turning this tide.

Ugggh, I’m done for now, gotta go billy kartin…

To tell the truth opinion in Scotland on this issue is also divided (obviously).

Here’s a few interesting letters to the editor of a Scotland newspaper the other day…

"Megrahi was convicted of the murder of 270 people. As a believer in the death penalty In see no reason why it should not be exercised for such crimes. However, in his case there is one overwhelming mitigating circumstance. He is innocent.

When the investigation began it was widely accepted the trail led to Syrian-backed Palestinians acting at the behest of the Iranians, who were, not unreasonably, miffed about the US having shot down an Iranian passenger plane across the Gulf (made worse by Reagan’s decision not to court-martial the captain that fired the missle but to decorate him).

Syria then joined us as our patriotic ally in the first Gulf War and suddenly the frame moved from Syria to Libya. Eventually the Scottish judiciary participated in fitting up the two Libyans and convicted one, justifying fitting up Libya.

Now Libya is our ally in exploiting its oil for large amounts of money and as a way of making Europe less dependant on Russian oil. So Megrahi is released. Almost every judge in the Scottish judiciary was involved, at some point, in the Megrahi fit up."

Here’s a few more…

“Some readers faith in the Scottish judicial system is touching. Have they never heard of miscarruages of justice? Even a rudimentary examination of Megrahi’s case reveals there is no credible evidence against him. For the first three years after the atrocity the finger of blame was pointed at Syria and Libya was never mentioned. Come 1991 and the invasion of Iraq the Americans needed Syria’s assistance and the blame mysteriously shifted to Libya. It is a fit-up pure and simple.”

“Megrahi was convicted on dodgy, discredited evidence. The UK & US governments don’t want the latest appeal to be heard as it may reveal their complicity. Now Megrahi has dropped his appeal, they may now leave him to die safe in the knowledge the truth will never be known.”

The above points are the reason most people aren’t too worried about the fact this man has been released.

Personally, I believe freedom is too good for this man,

Freedom is too good for an innocent man?

Interesting viewpoint.