So what do you think?
Of the front runners I like Bernie best and Biden least. Of the outliers I like Yang. Wish Booker has performed better because I think he was by far the most interesting of the moderates.
I think, for once, you and I are in complete agreement.
I think ultimately Yang is where the country has to go if we are to survive especially with rise of wage slave jobs and livable jobs becoming practically non-existant, but I think it’s too soon for people to accept universal income. But we have to go there before this nation of immigrants becomes a nation of homeless and starving. Who knows, we’ll probably have to go there first before universal income becomes a viable option. Fuckin shame.
Side note, theyre trying out Universal income in San Jose (?) where the poorest residents are getting $500 a month free no strings and it’s apparently helping the city economy and individuals at the same time. I think it’s already been shown to work in parts of Canada as well.
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That’s cool, didn’t know about that with San Jose.
I agree UBI is a little too soon for Yang to go pro with at this stage, my other issue with him is that I think he’s weak on environmental issues, which is to me also of huge importance.
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There’s a shocking headline. 
Not sure I like any of them and that sucks. I will, of course, vote for anyone but Cheeto Hitler.
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I don’ think it matters. The will of the voters is completely irrelevant at this point. How does someone lose by 3 million votes and still “win?” I suspect he’ll lose by more this time and still win the electoral college again. Wonderful “Democracy.” I love how the right has rewritten the narrative about the impeachment saying “the house is trying to subvert the will of the voters by impeaching the president.” HAHAHA what a bunch of Orwellian horseshit! The will of the voters was Clinton and the election after Sunny D (onald) was installed in office, Democrats stormed the house with sweeping pickups in a total rebuke of the placement of this wannabe dictator. If the right was honest (which they’re not) they’d admit Trump lost and the racist minority in the country are the only ones that want him.
Yang’s the guy against automation and for giving everyone a monthly stipend of 1k? HAHA!! You can’t fight progress my guy. His campaign seems like a horrible inside joke or something.
Sanders I like but I feel he’s too progressive, we’re clearly not ready for his type of gov’t yet. He’ll get a ton of pushback.
Biden is way too fucking old and seems to have lost his mind when you hear his goofy speeches. The dude is going to have an aneurysm any day now lol
Fuck… I hate to say it but the Dems are fucking stupid and the impeachment circus is going to cost them. Hold on to your butts we’re getting 4 more years of this divisive jock sniffing weasel named Trump
Yang’s right. Automation is ruining us. Call it progress if you want, but I think it’s an excuse for/path to stupidity. I was just at Disneyland yesterday and took my son to see Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln and listening to his speeches (How well they were constructed… absolutely beautiful!) and how well he regarded education and the struggles people (Lincoln specifically) went through just to educate themselves was inspiring.
People don’t educate themselves today. Now education is seen as a nuisance, something to be endured. What’s considered smart is people finding a short cut they can sell, which fucks us twice.
Let’s start simple: digital watches. The vast majority of high school freshmen I’ve encountered (for years now) can’t read an analog clock. Why do they need to, everything’s digital? Something I wouldn’t even consider a skill (Reading a clock) is lost.
The calculator: No one knows times tables or simple addition anymore. Why do they need to? Just poke a button (Even worse, I’ve run into students that that don’t know how to use one.)
Spellcheck: Nobody knows how to spell anymore 'cause spellcheck will fix it for them, even if it’s the wrong word, at least it will be spelled write (see what I did there?)… They don’t even teach spelling/vocabulary anymore in the early grades. As Word gets better with editing, they are kicking punctuation out of the school curriculum, as well. I’m not allowed to mark students down anymore for poor grammar and punctuation, as long as I know what they’re trying to say.
Now consider the workforce side.
Restaurants no longer have cashiers because placing an order is becoming automated. Where do those workers go?
Factories no longer need workers because the assembly line is automated (Been a problem for a while now) Look at Michigan. It destroys economies. Where do the workers go?
Automation is coming for the teaching profession as well. Virtual reality teachers will “teach” students with some software created by some tech company. Where do teachers/administration/secretaries/custodians/cafeteria workers/Teacher’s aids go? That’s a fuck ton of people out of work nationwide.Where do they go?
The Military is becoming more automated. Drones/battlebots (Remote control missiles and tanks). Where do the enlisted go? and why would we need so many officers? Where do they go?
The stock market has already become algorithms; what happens when it completely takes over? where do stockbrokers go? (Beside hell. LOL… seriously though )
Surgeons are already being replaced with robots… Where do the surgeons go?
The’ve already developed the first functional tri-corder. What happens when it hits actual Star Trek capabilities with diagnosis? where do the physicians go?
Automation already takes off and lands planes. Why do we need pilots? Where are they gonna go?
Pundits do all of our thinking for us. None more so obvious than DjPon3 (What does he have to say unless Hannity hasn’t told him what to think first? That’s right, nothing. That’s why he’s unwilling/unable to articulate his disagreements). There’s Maddow and Blitzer for “the other side.” Why do we need to think?
GE just killed pensions for its work force and are currently trying to weasel out of those that are already collecting. How are these people going to survive? Well, assholes will say, “I guess they’re going to have to get a job” but automation is taking up all of the jobs. So, really there is no job to get.
We have to move past a capitalistic society if we are going to survive, because, as you more or less pointed out, automation is here to stay. Capitalism in its current form is no longer sustainable for the masses. So, how are we gonna live? Technology would be great if we all did something great with our free time but we don’t. We don’t even better ourselves let alone our society/world. Let’s take this to its logical conclusion. Everything is automated, there are no jobs to work because computers/machinery are faster, more efficient, and produce better quality than human workers… What do we do with ourselves? As the machines get “smarter,” we get dumber. I don’t see a very good end to this. I see a dystopian mashup between 1984 and A Brave New World (Especially ABNW based on CRISPR and Gene editing).
Sanders is the best beginning for where we need to go I think. The role of the government is to take care of its citizens-- ALL of the citizens, not just the wealthy.
Biden is mentally deficient. I thought he did fine as VP (even mopped the floor with Ryan during the VP debates) but that was 10 years go and his mental faculties are clearly in decline and is only as far along as he is in this primary because of name recognition. That’s all Biden has going for him.
I don’t think the impeachment was a circus. I do think it’s going to backfire because those treasonous bastards Moscow Mitch and Lindsey Graham (Along with every other sycophant Republican) who have already said they are going to ignore the oath they have to take to be an impartial juror in the trial of Trump and “work with the white house counsel” are going to acquit that treasonous fuck in the white house in the name of party over country, are going to embolden said treasonous fuck even more. If you’re a republican president you are clearly above the law according to other Republicans.
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I don’t think Yang is trying to fight progress so much as prepare us for where that progress is taking us. Grmpy outlined above some of the many many careers that will be impacted by automation.
The thing is, yes at first it’s manual labor mostly affected and certain people will think “No big deal, no Americans want to do that.” But my brother drives a truck for a career, how many of you think that’s a job that’s going to be around in a decade? Grmps mentioned things like restaurant servers, that’s something you don’t get a lot of undocumented workers doing. Lawyers are going to be less necessary, as a lot of their work can be automated (I read a non-politically focused article about careers that will be affected by automation and lawyers and accountants are high up there).
This will affect many people across the social and racial divide. I personally don’t have as apocalyptic view as Grmpy of where it’s leading but I do think it’s vital that governments plan and prepare for it now or it could be really really bad.
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Without really dissecting any of these previous posts – you all make excellent points – I’ll just throw in my $0.02 here.
I think Trump is going to get at least four more years (more if he somehow manages to eliminate term limits). Yesterday he kicked a snake’s nest in Iran and now we’re looking down the maw of a python. This alone will mobilize his base. Undecided voters whose only metric of American success is the decent economy* enjoy eating and buying things, so they’ll throw in their lot with Trump, too. And if things look bad for Trump by the end of this summer, don’t be stunned if “terrorists” blow up a major target in the US and McConnell calls for a delayed election. Sounds like fiction, but so does a game show host as President.
Furthermore, I don’t think there’s a single candidate in the Democratic lineup that can beat Trump. For a while I thought maybe Biden could pull it off, but I think the idiots in this country won’t get behind him. The other candidates (Sanders, Warren, Buttigieg, etc.) make great ideas sound viable, but in truth, these are pie-in-the-sky paper dreams. Medicare for all? Free college? I’m sure the drug companies and big-name universities are going to roll over for that one. I also think, save Biden, none of the candidates could handle a major disaster (terrorism, economy collapse, war). They just don’t have the necessary experience. Could you see Sanders committing troops to ANY cause? I’m not a war hawk, but sometimes you have to get your hands dirty. Just a fact of life.
All we can hope for is that the Democrats take back the Senate in 2020. And keep the House. Then the Democrats can just do blockage and damage control for 4 more years.
Finally – if a Democrat does win in 2020 (a fucking miracle, as we all know they can fuck up a ham sandwich), he better do a fucking fantastic job. Because Trump, or someone worse, will be waiting to pick up the ball in 2024. Forget the high road / low road crap – the Democrats have to stop playing at politics and start learning from those old guys in the park who play chess all day. The long game, baby. Stakes is high.
I really don’t like this country any more, and I don’t feel the least bit ashamed for saying so. I’m an American by fact of birth, and I had no control over that. Furthermore, if I had a dime for every conservative who will tell me to “love it or leave it” if I don’t like America, well… I’d leave. But I’m too entrenched. I have a whole network of doctors, family, friends, etc., where I currently live, and moving to another country would be an enormous upheaval. And that applies to everyone, I think. Only vagabonds and rich people can escape where they live with relative ease.
Anyway. Just trying to give you a million bucks of advice for a dollar-ninety-nine. I welcome any debate, because this forum is pretty decent about opposing viewpoints. You guys are, for lack of a better word, “civil,” and I feel that having spent the last hour writing and refining this post won’t be lost on you. (I know, I know – “get your tongue out of my asshole, Gary.”)
*The current economy’s robustness can be placed at the feet of Obama’s administration, who set in motion the machines that make recovery happen. I took a poli-sci course in college (I know you’re thinking “ah, shit, here we go,” but hang in there), and the professor taught us that a President’s larger policies don’t show fruit – rotten or no – for about four years. Thus, Obama. I don’t know – maybe I’m wrong, I loved Obama. Not to the level of “dude can do no wrong,” but he was a classy individual who knew how to handle the pressures and responsibilities of his office.
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It’s only funny to you until it comes for your job. Then you will understand. That seems to be an American problem, nobody cares or understands until it’s happening to them. you hire the US applicants? Where exactly do you work? What is your line of work? Aren’t you also located in rural South Carolina? It starts in the larger cities first. It always has. technology is slow to hit smaller populations. Shit, some places don’t even have internet yet. I’m sure you see those commercials for high speed internet in tall grass backwoods towns sold by dish network.
Yeah, tech jobs will be going away too because they are creating robots that can write code and program as well, and if it’s not automation taking over and driving down the standard of living by essentially working for free, then it’s some person driving down the standard of living by working for cheaper. And now Americans are forced to compete with workers who are not only willing to work for less but also no pension or health care… What does that do to our nation? This kind of business model does not bode well for anybody who does not own the means of production.
You asked in the star wars thread how they have all this technology but still live in huts and jungles and caves… Well when tech is essentially free this could be one path exactly to that.
You make a good point. So good in fact that it actually strengthens my point. You’re right we’re not survivalists and we don’t know how to live without the cooperation of others because that skill set has been lost. So what do we do when put in that situation? We die. Although, private property laws suggest that even those that do have that skill set will still die because you’re not eating the berries, growing the crops, or hunting the animals on somebody elses property. That’s stealing.
Sorry for my swipe at you in my other post. This was clearly a thoughtful non hannity post. 
a decade? the majority of truckers will be lucky to be around in five years. They’ve already had a truck go coast to coast driverless. I’m sorry for your brother. Does he have a plan? What about the peripheral jobs that go with truck driving? like mainly the jobs that make up truck stops? Those are useless now too.
I’m optimistic in that I think Sanders or Warren (Or even better, Sanders and Warren) can, but then again I don’t think they can beat the electoral college. So, no matter what it’s a moot point.
I really don’t get his candidacy. His whole platform seems to be, “Hi, I’m gay vote for me.” Maybe I’m missing the substance of his candidacy, but for me it seems to be lost in his identity game. Sure, I agree there’s nothing wrong with being gay, but I’m sure it’s not a sole qualifier for office.
This is actually very easily realized. State colleges and junior colleges used to be free as recently as the 70’s. If you haven’t seen it, I highly recommend Noam Chomsky’s “Requiem For The American Dream”. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZnuc-Fv_Tc) America has more money now than it ever has in its history but yet were “too poor” to afford any social programs… Yeah right.
What experience does Biden have, really? He was elected during a recession where all they did was throw tax payer money at already rich corporations? Anyone can do that.
I totally can, because I think Sanders is smart enough to listen to his military brass, as well as work with them.
I’m sure there is plenty more on which to impeach him again. This may be the only way to not just block him but finally get rid of him.
The republicans certainly have a head start in this strategy.
Funny how this advice only works one way. When Conservatives were all pissed about obama for 8 years they didn’t leave the country; it was “stand and fight.” Now that they got what they want it’s back to “love it or leave it.”
Ease? Vagabonds don’t get to leave. They don’t have money for passage across the ocean, around the world. The wealthy are the only ones that can leave, but what reason do they have to leave unless it’s to exploit some other land… or blow it up.
I don’t think the economy is really all that robust. I think it’s a minimum wage paradise. Who gives a shit about a ton of jobs if you have to work four of them (at the expense of your health, and livelihood) just to make ends meet? A robust economy, to me, is a ton of jobs that easily pay enough for people to live off of.
That’s kind of a rule of thumb, but I’m not sure how accurate that really is.
Sorry to hear that.
That’s not a horrible week! That’s a bright spot! Finally! 
Good for you!
That’s the difference between 80% of farmers back then and 2% now. There were jobs that people could turn to if not farming. (Hell, specific farming might be on its way out to, now that lab grown meat is a thing) With Automation what jobs will show up? Certainly there will be new jobs that do show up, but will there be enough of those new jobs to employ the number of people put out of work? I’m not optimistic. I would argue things are different and worse off. There was always labor to fall back on. as you point out, not anymore
I’ve been saying this for years on this board with huge amounts of pushback from “the other side,” usually calling me commie or socialist or whatever else derogatory name is fashionable.
Yeah… and? that’s Kinda always been my point. The system is definitely irrelevant when the outcome is the same. Not really sure what point you’re going for here.
What do you do? What makes it so hard? Everybody thinks their job is hard. Is it really? Are there enough of those jobs for everyone put out of work by automation? By the opposite side there are a whole lot of people that can do the job you do but is there a job there for them in your field?
They’re building houses with 3d printers now and have been for almost 10 years. Contractors are on their way out. https://www.businessinsider.com/3d-homes-that-take-24-hours-and-less-than-4000-to-print-2018-9
BTW the last line of the article " The Vulcan II is operated by a tablet, which means [only a few workers are required."
2,000 SQFT home: roughly $20,000. and this is the inefficient prototype printer.
I completely agree. College isn’t for everyone, and there are all kinds trade schools/trade jobs that can be learned but it’s really only a matter of time before those get sucked up into automation as well. Then what? Stagnation? Vagrancy? Poverty?
This article is roughly two years old now.
I refuse to believe you work in tech and don’t know about shareware. I refuse to believe you work in tech and dont know about opensource. I refuse to believe you have no idea people give away calculators and watches and other forms of tech that have microchips in them. It will come to a point when all of this modern tech will be ancient and essentially free. You could never get a free calculator when they came out. How much were atari 2600s when they came out? How much are they now? See my point? Essentially free.
I think the city testing UBI is actually Stockton. In a few articles they refer to Stockton as silicon valley, but that’s not true. It’s central valley, mostly blue collar and farm workers in that area.
Yeah you’re right. San Jose, Stockton, San Francisco is all North of me, so they all run together as one to me, even though when I stop to think about it they’re hundreds of miles from each other and coudn’t be any different from each other. Pretty much, in my mind, anything north of Santa Barbara is Northern California, even though it’s still technically central California. I’m geographically lazy, I guess.
Right, and the crazy tech that you see on Star Wars planets may also be outdated compared to the current tech that Star Wars Imperials are using. You can see that in the original Star Wars: a planet killer had to be the size of the Death Star. Now that technology has shrunk down to a cannon on the bottom of a star destroyer. That “old tech” is still useful, even if not the most innovative. Can’t someone take the chips out of calculators or atari 2600 and repurpose them?
I honestly don’t know. can we all get jobs as “concept creators” for Apple? I got some ideas.
I’m not so sure they’re not. And, as we get farther along, it may become more apparent that they are.
That’s not really where I’m going with this. I’m not scared of AI or Machine Learning in that sense. Machines can only do what you tell them to do. I understand that they cannot create; they will never be able to think; they can only work within the parameters they have been given. It doesn’t know what it’s doing the same way a hammer doesn’t know what it’s doing. They can only do what they’ve been programmed to do. However, if programs are created to speak/write a language, I can see how this might put programmers out of work. “computer, using this language, I need you to write this program.” That’s a job lost.
But isn’t piecing code together from other code actually programing? I can see how a computer can be coded/programmed to do that…
“Essentially, it creates new programs by combining existing lines of code taken from other software, which is what human coders do.” - from the computers are learning to code themselves article.
I wouldn’t think that it would, but AI will calculate the mathematical variables involved in traveling to the moon (fuel consumption, re-entry angles, lift off etc. etc.)
What exactly do you do? are you HR? you hire programmers? I’m genuinely interested.
I’m not even remotely opposed to social programs – or that nasty, nasty word “socialism” – I just think we’re too entrenched in special interests and donation money that neither Medicare For All or college for everyone is going to work. Sanders was questioned about the college thing, and his response (“I don’t have to tell you about that now”) was the WRONG RESPONSE.
Look, I like Sanders AND Warren, and I think both could do wonders for America if given the right circumstances (i.e. both the House and the Senate). But right now, they’re just too damn progressive. Beating Trump is, unfortunately, the main goal here. That means votes. And the electoral college isn’t going anywhere any time soon, despite its increasing irrelevance, and with that in place, I don’t think Sanders or Warren can win.
I really hope this whole impeachment thing doesn’t backfire. I love that he got impeached, but we both know if the articles make it to the Senate in early 2020, it’s a no-show. And a lot of people aren’t too happy about the impeachment, even if they dislike Trump. A story: I took a friend to get his colonoscopy a few weeks ago, during the impeachment hearings. (Sounds like the beginning of a dirty joke, but hold on.) They were showing CNN in the waiting room, where I was stuck for about an hour and a half. Everyone felt like sharing their $0.02 and ALL of them were opposed to impeachment. This is in Flushing, NY, presumably a few minutes away from NYC, the capital of American liberalism.
Good point about the vagabonds. I forgot it’s not the 16th century. Mea culpa. 
But do you think the current economy belongs to Obama, or Trump? Just asking.