Mos def is being taken out of context intentionally, by Hitchens and they’re putting words in mos def’s mouth that he did not say. Hitchens just comes off like an ass.
All mos def asked for wasn’t basically a list of the taliban’s demands but their over all goal. and it turned into a 9 minute “look how much of an asshole i can be” fest for Chris
the only thing Mos Def did wrong was compare an individual political prisoner to a group of established terrorists (but in all honesty, chris non sequitured Mos Def into that corner)and then claim to not trust the bin laden tape translations. If it was translated incorrectly people that speak Arabic would’ve been all over that.
Not one of Hitchen’s finer moments and to be completely blunt pretty much fits what I’d come to expect from Hitchens. I’m not impressed
edit: the Hannity Falwell piece is lovely though.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Hitch (and Rushdie) called out Mos Def on his waffle. Def asked the question about the Taliban’s politicial manifesto (albeit confusing them with Al Qaeda along the way and then settles on either). An answer is provided to which he doesn’t seem to care about and responds by saying he doesn’t necessarily believe anyone. He then steers the conversation off track and makes it all about himself and how he’s not afraid to hold unpopular views.
I thought Hitch and Rushdie (and Maher) should have went to town on him, but they didn’t. Def had to, just had to, bring up the “where I’m from” angle. How unoriginal.
Hitch (and Rushdie) called out Mos Def on his waffle. Def asked the question about the Taliban’s politicial manifesto (albeit confusing them with Al Qaeda along the way and then settles on either). An answer is provided to which he doesn’t seem to care about and responds by saying he doesn’t necessarily believe anyone. He then steers the conversation off track and makes it all about himself and how he’s not afraid to hold unpopular views.
I thought Hitch and Rushdie (and Maher) should have went to town on him, but they didn’t. Def had to, just had to, bring up the “where I’m from” angle. How unoriginal.
Bang on.
Mos got pooned and managed to poon himself even more along the way to trying to get out of his major pooning. All in all it was a major Mos Def poon-fest…and considering how intellectual most of his raps are I found it quite amusing.
Hitchens did not come across like an ass at all…Mos Def was just a little bit of a numpty.
I don’t have time right now to reply to both of you(plus I only have my phone on me right now) but I will. And I’ll show you exactly where I think hitch was an ass and exactly where mos def was taken out of context and twisted up.
Late,
grmpysmrf
I think Hitch comes across as an arrogant prick too. Mos Def asked a simple question and they treated him like a idiot child (all of them did) and then he got flustered.
I feel bad for the dude. It just felt like some poor brothaman found himself eating dinner in a country club with a bunch of stuffy white snobs and they all trashed him.
Don’t get me wrong . . . I’m all for eviscerating someone in a debate, but these guys are supposed to be professionals and scholars and whatnot and they just acted like bullies picking on the slow kid.
And no, I’m not saying Mos Def is some philosopher king. I’m just saying that the other three bastards look like racist jackasses.
Salmon Rushdie isn’t white he’s Indian although he is British. Hitchens & Maher are crackers but I doubt very much they’re racists…I know Hitchens wasn’t. The fact of the matter is it didn’t matter what colour or creed or religion you were when it came to Hitchens pooning the hell out of you if you made a blunder or didn’t have facts backing up arguments. Mos Def was just another in a long line of folk to get Hitch-slapped…although he was a lot weaker than most. I totally understand feeling sorry for Mos though…he was digging himself a deeper and deeper grave with each word that came out of his mouth it seemed and was melting under the pressure.
History showed that if anyone came up aganist Hitchens and they didn’t have at least a tiny bit of knowledge of what they were talking about & intellect to go with it…he’d poon them. Usually the Hitch poon fodder happened to be intellectual religious folk…this time it happened to be a rapper who came across as ignorant when he sells himself as anything but ignorant on his records?
Hitchens was brutal in the pubic arena no doubt and as a result of him being so blunt a lot of folk found him a hard act to swallow…but make no mistake… the man was a true legend when it came to GIVING it to the man!
Hitchens was brutal in the pubic arena no doubt and as a result of him being so blunt a lot of folk found him a hard act to swallow…but make no mistake… the man was a true legend when it came to GIVING it to the man!
That’s actually the first time I’ve ever heard Mos Def speak. I couldn’t name even one song by him. Rappers, in general, are not exactly the most learned (this can apply to most entertainment personalities from any arena, though) and I don’t know how he got selected for the show. Probably the producers were actively looking to put people on the show to represent the “urban voice” or some such hogwash.
I would have liked to see Mos just go straight ghetto on their asses and pull out a piece or just start punching honkies.
Hitchens was brutal in the pubic arena no doubt and as a result of him being so blunt a lot of folk found him a hard act to swallow…but make no mistake… the man was a true legend when it came to GIVING it to the man!
I hope you did this on purpose.[/reply]
Regardless it was the best paragraph on this board for some time.
Back on topic: Mos Def tried the “maybe Osama isn’t the bastard we are all led to believe he is” sentiment and it backfired because no one can pull that off, solely because it’s a stupid sentiment.
As general rule if you’re going to come out strongly with an opinion or raise your voice - especially in the company of Hitch and Rushdie… and ESPECIALLY on tv - you best know what the f you’re talking about or else you’ll end up suffering the fate of a daughter at the hands of Iron Maiden.
Mos Def was mos certainly not treated unfairly by any of the other guys in that vid. If you can’t do time, don’t mess with crime.
Exactly, Zick. They’re not racist for calling Mos Def out for saying stupid shit, anymore than Gunnar is sexist for calling Gerda out for saying stupid shit (or whoever it was she accused of being sexist- Dildo maybe?).
I didn’t say they were racist. I said they came off that way. It really wasn’t anything “racist” they were doing or saying, just that they were all ganging up on the poor dumb black kid.
And yeah, I don’t follow ANY of these guys’ acts or careers.
As for Mustaine . . . he gets no free pass from me. If he acts like a schmuck (like in the Metallica movie as I’ve noted — and if anyone hasn’t seen it, it is pure emo gold) or says something schmucky, so be it. I just don’t feel the need to react just because he said he’s gonna vote for this guy or that guy.
Hitch (and Rushdie) called out Mos Def on his waffle. Def asked the question about the Taliban’s politicial manifesto (albeit confusing them with Al Qaeda along the way and then settles on either). An answer is provided to which he doesn’t seem to care about
Not necessarily. He asks for a manifesto. Hitchens tells him you you can watch their videos and look online. but a couple Bin laden 3 minute videos filled with threats specifically to the US (or other specific countries) doesn’t cover their over all goal.
Hitchens then says it’s restoration of the califate (sp ?) but is that one of their demands or their main mission as a group? what do they plan to do when the califate is in place? is that part of the goal or the actual goal?
the subject is steered to elections, to which Mos Def accurately says “just 'cause elections are held doesn’t mean that there is a working democracy…” to which hitchens goes completely off in the other direction claiming that mos def said that elections “are the work of the devil.” When in fact all Mos Def is saying is the mere act of elections doesn’t = working democracy. Why Hitchens claims that Mos def is saying all elections are bad is beyond me, unless of course its just to be an asshole.
Mos Def was looking for a mission statementfrom the taliban/al Queda and the panel gave Mos Def a list of their demands. Not the same thing. e.g. A kidnapper wants ransom money, that’s a demand. Knowing what the kidnapper wants at this specific time ($) is much different from knowing what that kidnapper intends to do with that money. see the difference?
and responds by saying he doesn’t necessarily believe anyone. He then steers the conversation off track and makes it all about himself and how he’s not afraid to hold unpopular views.
True the conversation steered towards himself but only after Hitch started in with the ad hominems.
Def had to, just had to, bring up the “where I’m from” angle. How unoriginal.
That, again, was in response hitches jack assery.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Back on topic: Mos Def tried the “maybe Osama isn’t the bastard we are all led to believe he is” sentiment and it backfired because no one can pull that off, solely because it’s a stupid sentiment.
I don’t think that’s what Mos Def was saying at all. I think he was making the point that just cause the tv says it doesn’t mean it’s true. they turned it into “maybe Osama isn’t the bastard we are all led to believe he is.” the same way they twisted him saying “just cause there are elections doesn’t mean democracy is in full bloom” into elections are tools of the devil or some such nonsense.
As general rule if you’re going to come out strongly with an opinion or raise your voice - especially in the company of Hitch and Rushdie… and ESPECIALLY on tv - you best know what the f you’re talking about…
but he didn’t know and he said he didn’t know and based on that question everything was twisted and turned into what transpired
Mos Def was mos certainly not treated unfairly by any of the other guys in that vid. If you can’t do time, don’t mess with crime.
We are just gonna disagree on this, either that or we are watching two different youtube clips.
Late,
grmpysmrf
Thank you for reminding me of a few of those items that struck me as well . . . specifically the crap about Hitch totally missing the point of Mos’ “elections doesn’t necessarily = working democracy” statement.