cacophony

This is my last post on this (unless discussion is followed). This will come off hateful but it isn’t. I’m just annoyed by people’s attitudes.

Question: Are fans of any other band this juvenile? Have people read the latest posts on pissedarmy? I mean like the one for OBJ at 4.19pm and others. I mean seriously - I don’t see jesu, nin, etc, fans doing this. Why is it subjected to just Ministry fans? I’ve always wondered this. I’m not talking about the criticisms - that happens anywhere, rightfully so if it’s done in a proper manner, but I’m talking of the constant immaturity. The CAPS, the constant slagging off, etc, etc. Just talking in general - not of this board or any other - just in general.

When I ran Piss Army years ago, I didn’t think I would ever encounter such disgusting and juvenile acts from attention grabbers. The post counts, the constant posting of stupid images, etc. In fact, there was absolutely nothing about Ministry on the PA for years. There was little discussion on politics, music, etc, etc. It was so bad, the parent marketing company for Ministry at the time gave up on it. They had enough. Who stepped in, took over, rebuild it with my own time and paid for it all? Me.

I have also never seen as much hypocrisy as I did then (note: someone over there is infamous for this - the person and her friend spent over half a year posting lots of anti-afra/pa threads and demolished PA into a troll fest, only to now say stuff like “But I am criticizing the over the top bitching and the excessive bile here [PA]. …There’s no need to get personal and shitty.” (in regards to people bitching about Ministry’s set list). This thought process is amazing to me - it’s sickening. The last step in me administering that board was when someone posted a thread calling me a “sand nigger” (this was funny - I’m not even from that area but ignorance is just that). On top of that, people defended those actions and blasted me when I cut those posts. These very people are the ones blasting this forum for criticizing new Ministry! Not all on PA are like that - I am good friends with a bunch of them in person.

And I’m not saying it’s just PA - there are the people here who can cause problems every now and again, though to me and the vast majority, was never that bad. Jizzwad, for example, while his posts are meaningful and insightful (I do think he is smart), when he jabs at people, it throws that credit out of the window. But then he gets it again, but then it disappears, and so on - ha! So far so good though. I don’t consider him a troll - if/when he bashes Ministry, or any other artist for that matter, it has a point and is done constructively. But, in the defense of this board, we never had the issue of banning trolls, pointless images, etc. Only times which were close were when PA was down and people would come from over there. I won’t lie: I have been personally asked by members of the Ministry camp to cut posts on this forum but I simply refused. I did find it odd.

And I did talk to others who run or ran forums - the Tool forum, NIN forum, Litany, etc (we all started our respective site around the same time back when mp3s weren’t even around and know each other), and they never had these issues. I’ve just been wondering why is it isolated to just Ministry? I have no answer to this.

I like the idea of pissedarmy - it took a lot of threads on the ministry set list out of this forum - sigh of relief. And you can tell it’s everyone posting (PA and prongers) - not just one or the other.

If people truly believe a vast majority of artists (not all) actually personally care about what fans want, they are living in a delusional world. Money is the bottom line to a lot of artists that I have dealt with. I can truly say artists such as Jesu, Connelly and Barker, with whom I have had more of a 5 minute conversation with, do not fall under this category whatsoever. While it is important and a job to them, it isn’t their main focus. I don’t get it when people say “some other artist don’t owe you anything”. I disagree. Especially when they charge $30-50 for a ticket and promise things but fall through. Without us, they wouldn’t be where they are/were. Artists should listen to the fans for suggestive input. I think that was the point of pissedarmy.com.

Yes, some are disappointed by Ministry’s latest outputs - so be it. They still are here as they still relate to Ministry. It’s no secret that the majority here prefer the older Ministry (as I do), but is this a bad thing considering that was the era we grew up with? Is it a bad thing that people, after being into Ministry for 10-15 years with true spirit, would like to hear some older tunes on the very last tour, as promised? I don’t think so at all. Is that really hard for some to see why people across both boards are disappointed? In a way, many will take it personally especially after dishing out $50 for a ticket. There are even people on PA who have posted similar posts about the set list, as on here.

And to all that say we, here at prongs are not Ministry fans or you are more dedicated: dedication isn’t buying the odd Work for Love vinyl on ebay, or the odd kiss-ass posting on PA, or dressing to look like Al. This site has been up and running for more than 13 years. Yes, 13. I started it when I was 16-17 and it wasn’t me that just did it. The lyrics, discography, bootleg pages, faq, details on almost every tour date, rare mp3s - there are not many other band sites that offer as much detail on a single band as you will find here. The new discography coming out soon has taken JW a couple of years to do. The endless number of redesigns and coding changes. It took a countless amount of time over all these years to build this with the contribution of many throughout the globe, and this is taking place currently too (a tablature section coming thanks to Krowe). This site gets way more hits than the official (it was 4 times more) because of all the information. We get more emails than the official. VH1 even interviewed me about what I thought of Filth Pig when that album came out in '96 - that’s how well known this site is. People on here have spent months tracking down members from Ministry from the early 80s for interviews. I mention all this to make people realize how much effort was truly poured into this site.

We have organized events with Paul and Al and have thrown a couple of Ministry release parties voluntarily. It takes time, effort and money to organize these events, and I don’t do the events for the money (I give all profits to the artists) but for my pure dedication and interest. So if you say we aren’t dedicated and don’t care, please, show me exactly what dedication is instead of pointing your fucking accusatory fingers. I’d really like to see it.

I like this board and I’m sick of defending it to people who make their minds up damned quickly about the prongs community. Unless you start up something like this and spend time out of genuine interest, then you have absolutely no room to speak. None whatsoever. In fact, I challenge you to step up the plate if you think you can outdo this community.

Anyhow, I like Zahit’s take on it (a close friend of mine here in Chicago):

http://pissarmy.com/viewtopic.php?t=19855&start=20#264767

Peace.

Very good post, Afra, and I understand your frustration. In regards to the new, wacky pissedarmy, that page has quickly become pure satire. I laid out my short vent early on, along with several others, but the site quickly turned into Evening At The Improv. The posts are hilarious, and I’m pretty sure most of us know how ineffective the site really is. I take pissedarmy about as seriously as The Onion at this point.

I understand a lot of what goes on in the music biz, and am not so delusional to think that we’re gonna have a clear line of communication with Al by ranting and raving on prongs or PA2. I know the set list is probably set in stone, and maybe they have a few extra songs on the side that were rehearsed, and are options for the tour. I’m not going to fool myself…“Thieves” and/or “So What” will be the oldest stuff they play. Prove me wrong, Silent Bob…

I know we take a lot of heat from PA…we’re the Ministry Haters, we’re people with no lives who waste our lives whining about a band we don’t even like. That’s our reputation. There’s a clear division between us and PA, the perception being that they’re the ass-kissers, and we’re the stuck-in-the-past bitter Al-bashers. That will never change, it’s too late for that. I ignore all that nonsense. There’s die-hard fans on both boards, as well as some questionable individuals. That’s just the way it goes. I know I’m a huge Ministry fan (despite their recent output), and that’s all that matters. Still, I’m not gonna just be braindead and pretend that everything Al touches is gold. Dude fucks up, and writes bad shit once in a while…happens to every band. He is not immune from imperfection.

I’m going to tomorrow night’s show, despite the poor set list, because I’m a Ministry fan at heart. I already expect to stand around and be bored for the first half-hour…that’s fine. I’ll be with a bunch of friends, enjoying a night out, and secretly hoping for a nice ‘bonus’ song. If it doesn’t happen, ah well, that’s it, end of Ministry, life goes on.

I want to say more, but it’s 1:00 AM, and my tired ass should be in bed. This forum rocks, fuck those that want to lazily tag us because they’re such over-the-top, ignorant fanboys. Al doesn’t not shit pure silk, he shits shit, like the rest of us. Get it?

1002

I hope that bonus song is Work for love LOL[;)]

Nicely worded Afra.

I think you’ll find that the majority of posters both here and on PA will agree with what you have said. It’s only a small minority that will shake their heads furiously in denial and those that are shaking their fists at you saying “how bloody dare you”, are the ones that are guilty of all you mentioned in your post.

I can’t see what Zahit said on PA, but I’m sure whatever he did say is pretty accurate.

anyways, Just my take…

To make you feel better, on the forum of the metal webzine I write for, we have 10 moderators working around the clock and we still average about 5-6 bans a day, even with the more restrictive posting criteria and after the introduction of an easy reporting system (little button next to every post).

People then bitch about us constantly for being sellouts or some other shit like that (a New York chapter of some neo-Nazi ring targeted us specifically at one point lol) and it amazes me to no end that the mods are still capable of calling themselves metal fans even after dealing with so many idiots that associate themselves with the scene…

I have always been a supporter of unlimited free speech (ie. even racist idiots deserve for their voice to be heard, even if what they are saying is stupid) but it just doesn’t work that way on internet forums it seems.

I used to post on a Manson forum years ago, that was full of immature morons. Actually, there was one section that was kind of like here which is where I used to post. Small group, varied discussion etc. Then they re-did the board and that was lost, then I found prongs. Awwwww. Come to think of it… I’ve been lurking or posting here for quite some time now… years. Even though my old posts usually consisted of wanting to know what songs ogre did vox on BSQ or other silly questions lol. When I first joined DSOTS was the worst thing ministry had done according to everyone and they wanted more filth pig. Haha. Now look where we are at, more DSOTS would be much appreciated!!

Anyway… I do think some ministry fans seem very immature and ridiculous, (CAPS ETC W3RD TO AL HE P0WNS ALL U FHAGS), as you would find on most metal band forums though. Unfortunately being metal it will attract the ignorant. “HELL YES, SMASH THINGS, FAST GUITARS, PUNCH MY GIRLFRIEND”.
Tool/NIN forums I dont frequent enough to know the tone, the few times I’ve lurked on the toolshed forums though there didn’t seem to be much of the immaturity mentioned in the original post.

There’s always going to be people who don’t like what direction a favorite band goes in, and they are going to complain and complain and complain about it. Personally, if it’s what Al wants to do power to him. I own everything up to and including animositisomina, I just got poor after that point lol. I dont mind houses, what I’ve heard of RGB I dig from a metal point of view, TLS… well, what I’ve heard is OK. But again, if thats how Al wants to move on and share ministry, well he can.
Like Sabbath, I dont like anything (well, as much as I like early stuff) after Sabotage pretty much. Can’t stand tony martin (is that his name?). But I don’t go to a sabbath forum and go OMG that 1985 tour was so crap, they didn’t play anything from ozzy era.
Errrr… ok getting a bit incoherant now, I’m going to sleep as it’s 1am, might fix my post later.

but yes good post Afra… IMO juvenile comes from the metal aspect, probably some younger fans… myself probably included in the younger group who got into ministry as an angry teen lol. But I have nice memories of getting into them and listening to them at key points in my life, if that makes sense… probably not. Goodnight.

I’m sure this forum has recvd plenty of controversy over the years from those who lurk or attend other boards; no need to court it so assiduously. I would be simply feeding the flames of those who claim that this community panders to an elite few…

Aside from your “I see the two superman’s in the junkyard dueling it out as the two personas of Al…”
This is probably your best post and makes you seem “Normal” and not so meanspiritedly arrogant. I think you summed of this board perfectly.
Late,
grmpysmrf

This is hands-down, without a doubt, the best music forum out there. Prongs, and everyone therein, has some of the most informative, intelligent, and entertaining discussion ever, and it’s the varied personalities and points-of-view that make this site so infinitely great.

As straight-up sappy as this sounds, Prongs has changed my life, and made me a better man.

Afra, you fucking rule.

we’re the stuck-in-the-past bitter Al-bashers.

I like that one.

I think we all have a good understanding of the Prong community & music in general…what more can you ask for. Afra…I know you’re a wise soul; I could tell you cared about ministry & ministry/industrial music back in 1998. I probably stumbled upon the site in 1995 though.

I’ve been a Ministry fan since 1989 & I’m still a Ministry fan in 2008…just a little older…hehe.

i remember mysfyt asked me if i could find lyrics to so what way back when we first met, in like 96 or 97. i got them from prongs.org.

'nuff said.

afra.
dude. have my baby.

(er… that may be a problem)

anyway, this site is a haven for all sorts. afra is revered. he’s a scholar. for anyone to suggest he’s a nigger of any kind doesn’t know the dictionary.
dictionary is our best friend, and afra GODDAMIT i wish you could vote.

call me a liar, but integrity comes free of charge.

Honesty, Probity, and Credibility.

Afra. Dude. Can I have your babies?
I make damn good looking ones, you have the smarts

Man, sounds like Icepick might have had a life altering religious experience thru Prongs!

You fuckin’ know it. [:)]