i think bisquitodoom is very well aware of ministry’s box. (yes, it’s called just box, not black box).
Is the “Black Box” the WaxTrax compilation? It sounds familiar, anyway. Any info on what this Ministry Black Box would’ve been? It was to be 2 Seven Inch singles?
It was supposedly going to be 2 7"s with a solo track on it from each Ministry member. Not sure who that would have been, but I’ve always guessed that it would’ve been around 1986 and ben done by the Jourgensen/Barker/Rieflin/Barker lineup at the time. From what I understand, this was supposed to be released on Wax Trax as WAX 0019, for those familiar with the old Wax Trax numbering system. Some of the old Wax Trax releases that never got released were pressed as vinyl test pressings and leaked out (like the Perennial Divide 12"), but to my knowledge, this one has never seen the light of day.
Eh ok, lets try again. Thats what I get for trying to post at work through a proxied site 
I remember on the old boards a guy mentionin that he was in the Wax Trax! store in the 80’ and hearing a new ministry single, 7" i believe, which was was subsequently never released. I Cant remember the name or details, of the release or poster, and since that stuff is all gone now…
Maybe it was just a side project the guy didnt know of, or a single he hadn’t heard. But it could have been one of those “black box” discs or some other unreleased goodie.
It’s a shame, things like that are probably sitting in a collectors cupboard never to be played, or forgotten/unknown about at the bottom of a box in a garage somewhere. Who knows. Like that Black Sabbath 7" that was found a year or two back. Maybe it was from when they were called Earth, i dont remember, but it was from before their debut, had two songs, and wasn’t the best quality from what I heard, but what a find! Wonder if that stuff was ever released? I can understand not wanting to, but whats the harm in someone having mp3 copies, while you still posess the only original?
Would it lower the value or something? I think not.
I agree with Stairwell that it’s a shame that there’s so much unreleased material from great bands that will probably never be heard. I wish more bands would take the iTunes route and open their vaults for the stuff that may not have been good enough for the casual listener but is fascinating for the hardcore fans and collectors.
Like I was amazed when Early Trax came out and had a studio version of Overkill, an unreleased version of I’m Falling, and He’s Angry and Move. I’d love for Al to open the vaults and release dozens or even hundreds of demos, rehearsals, rough mixes, remixes, live shows, etc. It seems like this could be an undiscovered goldmine for artists.
Bleh I dunno…
I don’t care about demos and rough cuts and all that shit. What’s the point? A song is a song. The version they wanted you to hear is on the album.
The only unreleased Ministry shit I’m interested is that entire “ambient” album they scrapped before making Dark Side of the Spoon. THAT’s something I would be seriously interested in.
Alternate versions, demos, rough cuts…fuck that…I only want to hear unreleased NEW material.
I’m interested in ALL of it. If studio tracks from '80 - '84 were still around to surface on Early Trax, then surely there’s more. The rumored “ambient” album would be incredible…I’m curious what constitutes ambient for Ministry.
As for demos, I actually prefer them in some cases - I like the demo of Tonight We Murder quite a bit, and the Twitch tour sessions I got from someone here are enjoyable.
I’m looking forward to the DVD of the last few tours, but I just KNOW they’ll pull a Sphinctour and show random clips from every show set to one song. I want to see one performance at a time, damnit!
I’ll buy it anyway, I guess.
W.E.L.T.
So, the music from whatever sessions or what not that became Ministry’s “The Fall”, does any demo material when it was called Noreen
From the prongs/sideprojects page it states
"Ogre also had a sideproject with Al entitled WELT (When Everyone Learns the Truth), from which the song Noreen was the only song to leak. "
So does any recording exist when the song was “Noreen”? Wonder if it’s much different than “The Fall” Bisquitodoom/Anyone have it by any chance, it would make a good song of the month/week [;)]
it was posted already
generally imagine just the fall without lyrics and with alot of screaming
oh no shit? eh… i’ve been pretty current ever since i found prongs… had a HD failure and lost em all, then found em all on another HD just recently. looking back I missed a few as well in the timeframe noreen was posted. doesn’t sound like it’s worth the trouble from what you say!
I like Noreen quite a bit, I’d say it’s pretty different than The Fall, no pianos, very different actual song structure, a lot of the background sounds are mixed differently, etc. Admidtedly, I only have an old cassette bootleg, so how much of the difference is based around the crap sound quality I cannot say.
Imagine the noisiest parts of Last Rites mixed with The Fall and that will give you an idea.
oh no shit? eh… i’ve been pretty current ever since i found prongs… had a HD failure and lost em all, then found em all on another HD just recently. looking back I missed a few as well in the timeframe noreen was posted. doesn’t sound like it’s worth the trouble from what you say!
Well if you´re still curious i can mail an mp3 of noreen to you.
[/reply]Well if you´re still curious i can mail an mp3 of noreen to you.[/reply]
PM me as well? Or mail to jacymbol@syr.edu??? Por favor
Can’t see him losin his hatred for Curious George either…which will probably spill over into this new cowboy Buck makeover which will in turn alienate fans of this sorta thing.
Well, “Cocked and Loaded” was GWB free, so it is possible to leave Bush out of it. He later said that “Prunetang” was about the elder Barbara Bush, but I think he was just yanking the interviewer’s chain.
On the other hand, I don’t think Al wrote many of the “Cocked and Loaded” lyrics, if any…
ty once again to ollie for noreen. interesting original. good to hear though for curiosity sake.
glad the ministry version took the best elements of it (synth + samples), and left out the girl screaming lyrics. maybe if ogre did the screaming it would sound better.
tycoon screaming during live show whip and chain bootlegs = 100x better. [laugh] glad al made the right choice on lyrics.
ty once again to ollie for noreen. interesting original. good to hear though for curiosity sake.
glad the ministry version took the best elements of it (synth + samples), and left out the girl screaming lyrics. maybe if ogre did the screaming it would sound better.
tycoon screaming during live show whip and chain bootlegs = 100x better. [laugh] glad al made the right choice on lyrics.
No prob- glad to share [:)] WELT - Noreen. Just noticed it hasn´t been posted on the song of the week page, or did i miss it - Maybe some other folks would like to hear?
the noreen mp3 i have is only at 112kps - not crystal quality, definetely listenable! Maybe the original copy is´nt all that clean either so…Bisquito i can mail it to you unless you already have it (of course you do).
glad the ministry version took the best elements of it (synth + samples), and left out the girl screaming lyrics. maybe if ogre did the screaming it would sound better.
Uh, that IS Ogre screaming.
Isn’t it?
shrug. maybe. sounds womanlike to me. i dunno. sorry ogre if it is you heh.
i’d like to see someone decipher the screaming for noreen.
i’ll give them $100. [laugh]
All that screaming in the demo just sounds like shit to me…
Then again never really was into “The Fall” that much to begin with…
A really simple song
Ambient Ministry?
Probably the closest thing possible (based on what’s been officially released) would be an amalgam of “Dream Song” “Hizbollah” and “Khyber Pass”…and maybe the synth work from “Saturn Drive” thrown in for good measure. I doubt Al really meant ambient in the usual sense of the term/genre, of course.